Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CONCEALED CARRY/LICENSE TO CARRY > Concealed Carry Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-22-2014, 4:32 PM
locosway's Avatar
locosway locosway is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 11,346
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default Live Scan anywhere for OCSD

I just received a response from the Orange County Board of Supervisors regarding an email I sent yesterday. We're now able to Live Scan at any of the locations and not just the one at the OCSD in Santa Ana.

Quote:
Mr. Ryman,

I just received a response from the Sheriff’s Department regarding your email that I forwarded to them. Below is that response:

In the last few days some Board offices have received emails from constituent expressing concern about a backlog in Live Scan (fingerprinting) appointments for CCW applicants. The constituents attributed this back log to the fact that they believed the Sheriff’s Department required an applicant to have Live Scan performed only at the location on Flower Street in Santa Ana (on the first floor of the Brad Gates Building).

Today our staff did check in to this issue and found that we do (did), in practice, refer the applicants to our department’s Live Scan unit for processing. This has traditionally been done to avoid any DOJ report routing issues and DOJ fee collection issues. This was simply a practice and no official department policy exists mandating the use of our Live Scan Unit to facilitate this portion of the CCW process. Staff has contacted DOJ to clarify these issues in order to start allowing applicants to schedule and conduct the Live Scan portion of the process at any one of the DOJ approved Live Scan locations listed on their website (roughly 105 locations in Orange County alone). Applicants will still be afforded the option of utilizing our Live Scan facilities, but will now be able to use alternate locations if they choose to do so.

As of today, when an applicant is sent their “Approval Packet,” it will include the appropriate DOJ Live Scan form and associated instructions referring them to the Live Scan step at any facility listed on the DOJ website. This should help alleviate the “bottleneck” effect at the Live Scan step and provide the applicant a great deal of latitude in choosing a time and place that works best for their schedule.

Please continue to share the feedback you receive about the CCW process. As you can see, such suggestions are acted upon when possible. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks again for writing. It appears your email helped a significant amount of people.

Sincerely,

Erik
Office of Supervisor Pat Bates
__________________
OCSD Approved CCW Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
CA DOJ Certified Instructor
Glock Certified Armorer
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-22-2014, 4:38 PM
MA5177 MA5177 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,487
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

Wow, great news!!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-22-2014, 4:45 PM
LBDamned's Avatar
LBDamned LBDamned is offline
Made in the USA
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Free in AZ!!! yes, it's worth the Pain to make it happen!
Posts: 17,334
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

it's good to know that they are open to feedback and actually care enough to make changes...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-22-2014, 5:17 PM
MisplacedTexan's Avatar
MisplacedTexan MisplacedTexan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 706
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Sweet thanks.

Had my res. check only 5 days ago (seems longer) - good to know I won't have to worry about this part.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-22-2014, 5:40 PM
waveslayer's Avatar
waveslayer waveslayer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,728
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locosway View Post
I just received a response from the Orange County Board of Supervisors regarding an email I sent yesterday. We're now able to Live Scan at any of the locations and not just the one at the OCSD in Santa Ana.
Any Live Scan? Or those in Orange County?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-22-2014, 5:49 PM
TheWoodCrafter's Avatar
TheWoodCrafter TheWoodCrafter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,023
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

So how do we find out where Live Scan is available?
__________________
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

"A free society asks not why people want or need their freedom. It asks why government would restrict it."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-22-2014, 5:50 PM
SOCALTILE SOCALTILE is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locosway View Post
I just received a response from the Orange County Board of Supervisors regarding an email I sent yesterday. We're now able to Live Scan at any of the locations and not just the one at the OCSD in Santa Ana.
WOW, GOOD TO KNOW
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-22-2014, 6:31 PM
locosway's Avatar
locosway locosway is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 11,346
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waveslayer View Post
Any Live Scan? Or those in Orange County?
Any DOJ certified Live Scan facility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
So how do we find out where Live Scan is available?
http://ag.ca.gov/fingerprints/publications/contact.php
__________________
OCSD Approved CCW Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
CA DOJ Certified Instructor
Glock Certified Armorer
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-22-2014, 6:35 PM
grantar2's Avatar
grantar2 grantar2 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 3,581
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Kudo's to supervisor Bates staff.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-22-2014, 6:35 PM
TheWoodCrafter's Avatar
TheWoodCrafter TheWoodCrafter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,023
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Fantastic.
Thanks.
__________________
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

"A free society asks not why people want or need their freedom. It asks why government would restrict it."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-22-2014, 6:44 PM
locosway's Avatar
locosway locosway is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 11,346
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

The only hold up now is there only being three companies providing training. I'm working on that angle as well.
__________________
OCSD Approved CCW Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
CA DOJ Certified Instructor
Glock Certified Armorer
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-22-2014, 7:00 PM
thegamettt's Avatar
thegamettt thegamettt is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orange County, PRK
Posts: 2,628
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

I'm wondering how this will affect the fees.. Where does the 93 dollars go? Is that what ocsd charges just for the background check? If so looks like this will save us money too because it doesn't seem like the fees are too high for these third parties.
__________________
Have a good day!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-22-2014, 7:02 PM
locosway's Avatar
locosway locosway is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 11,346
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftone View Post
Ok - having never had a Live scan done - can someone walk me though the process IF I use an outside provider.

How do I make sure the results get to OCSD? Same fees plus the "rolling charge"? Looks like weapon charges are $87 and not the $93 I was quoted at my interview.
The prints are taken electronically. So you walk in, give them the paper, and get printed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamettt View Post
I'm wondering how this will affect the fees.. Where does the 93 dollars go? Is that what ocsd charges just for the background check? If so looks like this will save us money too because it doesn't seem like the fees are too high for these third parties.
DOJ pays the fees, there should be a billing code on the Live Scan document.
__________________
OCSD Approved CCW Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
CA DOJ Certified Instructor
Glock Certified Armorer

Last edited by locosway; 04-22-2014 at 7:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-22-2014, 7:24 PM
nil's Avatar
nil nil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 690
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

This is awesome news!
__________________
Buying something from Amazon? Use this link to support Calguns & The Calguns Foundation: Shop42a.com

Traveling 2A-friendly Notary Public serving OC and parts of LA counties. Please PM for more information.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-22-2014, 7:44 PM
Dragon's Avatar
Dragon Dragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 960
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locosway View Post
The prints are taken electronically. So you walk in, give them the paper, and get printed.



DOJ pays the fees, there should be a billing code on the Live Scan document.
So does this mean we don't pay OCSD the 93.00 and we save some cash ?
__________________
"I will not buy ammo from the private ammo sellers,it only encourages them to keep buying ,and reselling the ammo they bought from WAL-MART at 2-3 times what they bought it for"!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-22-2014, 7:57 PM
locosway's Avatar
locosway locosway is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 11,346
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
So does this mean we don't pay OCSD the 93.00 and we save some cash ?
I don't know what fees will be required, but you'll end up paying whatever OCSD asks for. If it's too much, people can sue later for the difference.
__________________
OCSD Approved CCW Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
CA DOJ Certified Instructor
Glock Certified Armorer
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-22-2014, 8:17 PM
Doheny's Avatar
Doheny Doheny is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Prescott, in the pines
Posts: 13,817
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Very cool.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2
__________________
Sent from Free America
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-22-2014, 8:41 PM
LBDamned's Avatar
LBDamned LBDamned is offline
Made in the USA
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Free in AZ!!! yes, it's worth the Pain to make it happen!
Posts: 17,334
iTrader: 52 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locosway View Post
I don't know what fees will be required, but you'll end up paying whatever OCSD asks for. If it's too much, people can sue later for the difference.
I remember quite a while back there was a thread asking how much people were willing to pay for CCW (or something similar to that)... of course at that time no one thought it would ever happen...

I tried to find the thread, but can't remember if it was in 2A or handguns section - I'm certain most people (at the time) were willing to pay far more than we are asked required to now... I'm pretty sure I said $1K (and at the time I definitely would have).
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-22-2014, 8:41 PM
Trout_fear_me's Avatar
Trout_fear_me Trout_fear_me is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain
Posts: 1,013
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Great job guys!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-22-2014, 9:34 PM
nil's Avatar
nil nil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 690
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
So does this mean we don't pay OCSD the 93.00 and we save some cash ?
You should be charged the $49 DOJ/FBI fee for the background check plus the $38 firearms eligibility check plus whatever "rolling fee" the Livescan operator charges. (PDF showing fees charged, I think CCW falls under the "Certificate/License/Permit with Firearm" category)

I had my prints Livescanned for my Notary earlier this year and was charged $71 total by the CSUFPD. $49 for the CADOJ & FBI fees + $20 for the CSUFPD fee + $2 credit card fee .

There are many locations in OC that do Livescans. The $87 fee is standard, the additional "rolling fee" is listed next to the provider on this page: http://ag.ca.gov/fingerprints/public...act.php#orange
__________________
Buying something from Amazon? Use this link to support Calguns & The Calguns Foundation: Shop42a.com

Traveling 2A-friendly Notary Public serving OC and parts of LA counties. Please PM for more information.

Last edited by nil; 04-23-2014 at 12:27 AM.. Reason: 0$87 instead of $49
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-22-2014, 9:48 PM
Doheny's Avatar
Doheny Doheny is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Prescott, in the pines
Posts: 13,817
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I'd sure like to see a breakdown of OCSD's fee. They recently dropped the gun inspection. If the fee included that, they need to adjust it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2
__________________
Sent from Free America
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-22-2014, 10:00 PM
Sheik_Yerbutay Sheik_Yerbutay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 229
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Hmmm, about a month ago I had my Livescan done for CERT @ Newport PD but not seeing it listed on the document.
__________________
Member of NRA, CGF, SAF and NAGR
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-23-2014, 12:25 AM
nil's Avatar
nil nil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 690
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
I'd sure like to see a breakdown of OCSD's fee. They recently dropped the gun inspection. If the fee included that, they need to adjust it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2
Based on the fee schedule linked in my post above, here's what I think: $32 for state background check + $17 for federal background check + $38 for firearms eligibility check = $87.
__________________
Buying something from Amazon? Use this link to support Calguns & The Calguns Foundation: Shop42a.com

Traveling 2A-friendly Notary Public serving OC and parts of LA counties. Please PM for more information.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-23-2014, 3:14 AM
MA5177 MA5177 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,487
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
I'd sure like to see a breakdown of OCSD's fee. They recently dropped the gun inspection. If the fee included that, they need to adjust it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2
OCSD only gets the 97.00 fee, that has to pay for your interview res check and all the paperwork.

I would venture to guess they are losing money if you add up ll that time.
Just to send a sheriff to your house on OT costs more than that.

CCW is pretty expensive here, but most of the cost is the training and ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-23-2014, 7:43 AM
TMcGuff TMcGuff is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,894
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Hasent anyone that joined the military since 2005 (guess) been live scanned I know they rolled all my fingers at MEPS way back in the day. Took forever and the guy had no clue what he was doing.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-23-2014, 8:17 AM
Doheny's Avatar
Doheny Doheny is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Prescott, in the pines
Posts: 13,817
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MA5177 View Post
OCSD only gets the 97.00 fee, that has to pay for your interview res check and all the paperwork.



I would venture to guess they are losing money if you add up ll that time.

Just to send a sheriff to your house on OT costs more than that.



CCW is pretty expensive here, but most of the cost is the training and ammo.

Good point. Maybe we shouldn't look a horse in the mouth.


Sent from my iPhone; please pardon typos, edits & stupid comments.
__________________
Sent from Free America
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-23-2014, 9:43 AM
thegamettt's Avatar
thegamettt thegamettt is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orange County, PRK
Posts: 2,628
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

I just got my livescan form. Can go anywhere to do Livescan now
__________________
Have a good day!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-23-2014, 9:54 AM
Dragon's Avatar
Dragon Dragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 960
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamettt View Post
I just got my livescan form. Can go anywhere to do Livescan now
In the mail , or E-mailed?
__________________
"I will not buy ammo from the private ammo sellers,it only encourages them to keep buying ,and reselling the ammo they bought from WAL-MART at 2-3 times what they bought it for"!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-23-2014, 9:58 AM
thegamettt's Avatar
thegamettt thegamettt is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orange County, PRK
Posts: 2,628
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
In the mail , or E-mailed?
Yolanda emailed it to me. All fees will be processed through the Livescan facility of your choice. So whatever you pay in total at the livescan, is the first payment.
__________________
Have a good day!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:07 AM
Dragon's Avatar
Dragon Dragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 960
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamettt View Post
Yolanda emailed it to me. All fees will be processed through the Livescan facility of your choice. So whatever you pay in total at the livescan, is the first payment.
Nice ! so it ends up cheaper in the end ?

I'm still waiting for approval .
__________________
"I will not buy ammo from the private ammo sellers,it only encourages them to keep buying ,and reselling the ammo they bought from WAL-MART at 2-3 times what they bought it for"!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:08 AM
thegamettt's Avatar
thegamettt thegamettt is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orange County, PRK
Posts: 2,628
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

Not quite sure, but the standard fees are 87 + whatever "rolling" fees the facility charges. So you might end up paying a bit more. the range is about 10-25 for that additional fee.
__________________
Have a good day!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:13 AM
Dragon's Avatar
Dragon Dragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 960
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Ok, I see. I get it now.. Its worth it if it speeds up the process .
__________________
"I will not buy ammo from the private ammo sellers,it only encourages them to keep buying ,and reselling the ammo they bought from WAL-MART at 2-3 times what they bought it for"!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:16 AM
CAL.BAR CAL.BAR is offline
CGSSA OC Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South OC
Posts: 5,625
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

regardless of fees etc. The fact of the matter is waiting to use the OCSD livescan won't add much (or any) time to your CCW wait since the only 3 CCW training providers are already booking into late June and July. That may change, but for now, your longest wait will not be for the live scan.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:19 AM
Dragon's Avatar
Dragon Dragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 960
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
regardless of fees etc. The fact of the matter is waiting to use the OCSD livescan won't add much (or any) time to your CCW wait since the only 3 CCW training providers are already booking into late June and July. That may change, but for now, your longest wait will not be for the live scan.
I think gamett already has the training.
__________________
"I will not buy ammo from the private ammo sellers,it only encourages them to keep buying ,and reselling the ammo they bought from WAL-MART at 2-3 times what they bought it for"!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:35 AM
thegamettt's Avatar
thegamettt thegamettt is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orange County, PRK
Posts: 2,628
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

yup training already done.. I can smell that permit its so close.. Results will probably come back quicker with the third party facility maybe too?
__________________
Have a good day!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:35 AM
M4John's Avatar
M4John M4John is offline
The More the Merrier
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 133
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
regardless of fees etc. The fact of the matter is waiting to use the OCSD livescan won't add much (or any) time to your CCW wait since the only 3 CCW training providers are already booking into late June and July. That may change, but for now, your longest wait will not be for the live scan.
I don't want to start any rumors, but I have a buddy that was scheduled for FTA in mid July. The emailed him this morning and are asking if he would like to attend several different choices of classes in early may instead. So it sounds like Bill Murphy is ahead of the power curve here and is trying to get people expedited as well ( kudos on FTA !)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:45 AM
NiteQwill's Avatar
NiteQwill NiteQwill is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Exiting the plane @ 13k feet
Posts: 6,369
iTrader: 75 / 100%
Default

Is anyone able to email the livescan form? Is it a standard form or is it prefilled with your info?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
__________________

The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:48 AM
thegamettt's Avatar
thegamettt thegamettt is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Orange County, PRK
Posts: 2,628
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteQwill View Post
Is anyone able to email the livescan form? Is it a standard form or is it prefilled with your info?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Its prefilled out with a codes assigned by DOJ. other than that you fill out your personal info like name DOB ssn, etc. These codes may be generic.. PM me your email and I will send you a copy.
__________________
Have a good day!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:50 AM
Doheny's Avatar
Doheny Doheny is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Prescott, in the pines
Posts: 13,817
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
regardless of fees etc. The fact of the matter is waiting to use the OCSD livescan won't add much (or any) time to your CCW wait since the only 3 CCW training providers are already booking into late June and July. That may change, but for now, your longest wait will not be for the live scan.

The new locations could be a great help for those who already have the training or were given a far-out scan date.


Sent from my iPhone; please pardon typos, edits & stupid comments.
__________________
Sent from Free America
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-23-2014, 10:57 AM
NiteQwill's Avatar
NiteQwill NiteQwill is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Exiting the plane @ 13k feet
Posts: 6,369
iTrader: 75 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamettt View Post
Its prefilled out with a codes assigned by DOJ. other than that you fill out your personal info like name DOB ssn, etc. These codes may be generic.. PM me your email and I will send you a copy.
PM sent. Thank you in advance!
__________________

The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:10 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy