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  #41  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:10 PM
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I have bought a number of guns from Turner's and have never had them order it after I buy. I have always had the firearm there to inspect prior to purchase.
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  #42  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:31 PM
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Turners is the FFL. Turners has possession of the firearm. It may not be at that particular site but they have it.

Second, your not forced to finish the DROS and take possession of it just because you start DROS on a particular firearm, at least that's been my impression. I've always gotten the opportunity to inspect before we finalize the DROS.

Why the weird quasi support of DOJ underground regulation?
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  #43  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Adams View Post
See recent Turners' Norwalk burglary of firearms. Bad guys cleaned them out. This event spawned this new regulation. DOJ could not discern what firearms were actually on site or in warehouse at the time of the crime. Hmmm....
The DOJ doesn't care. ATF does. And ATF knows because only items in the bound book with an acquisition date on or before the date of the crime will be "in" that location.

DOJ does NOT do an inventory in an incident like this.
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  #44  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullets&Whitewalls View Post
I agree with this too. This is one of those times it just makes sense, how many threads are there about guys getting the wrong gun, some of which don't even realize until months later in some cases. It seemed as though many of those threads were cases of the gun being drosed before it got there and sometimes it had been sold already or again if you will to another buyer.
It does NOT make sense. Why have a new law / regulation for this? Why not let it be the choice of the customer. You know what else "made sense" to some people? A roster of not-unsafe handguns for us... it just made sense for the children.. how many people can't choose a safe firearm and their kids got hurt... Let's make a law to protect them.

We have some customers that ask to start DROS on a firearm before it arrives. I ask them to waive their right of initial inspection. The ones that are willing to do that start DROS early if we can get the info needed. They understand they will lose fees if they decide they do not want to move forward at the time of pickup due to any issues. It's their risk/rewards they get to decide on. I'm ok with giving them that choice. Some folks elect to wait to inspect before starting paperwork. I'd say 95% choose that. But those 5% haven't had a bad experience yet with what they got. For them the rewards has panned out so far.
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  #45  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
No, like I said...other shops who have had other stores and warehouse were told no. There's an old DOJ memo that specifically says the information typed into the DROS screen must be obtained directly from the firearm and it must be there to DROS.
I don't recall this one. Is it in the DES system or was it pre DES?
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  #46  
Old 05-22-2018, 7:28 AM
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I always thought that was the law. I can completely understand why you need to have the firearm. I don't see a problem with this at all. When I order a firearm the DROS begins after it arrives, not before. I'm good with that.
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  #47  
Old 05-22-2018, 7:50 AM
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Went to Turner's yesterday, the guy behind counter knew about this, said Turner's has a new policy started last week that DROS will not start until Thursdays when the physical firearm is checked in at their store (Thursday is their delivery day). That means you won't be able to pick up the firearm 10 days from that Thursday (which will always be a Sunday). Potentially seeing a 17 day wait now if you happen to buy a gun from their warehouse on a Thursday because they can't start DROS until the following Thursday's delivery. Sundays will be insane because everyone from the week who DROS'd a gun will be there to pick up. He said customer's won't have to come back for the Thursday DROS, they will run a "soft DROS", assuming that means they run the DROS with the information you left with them when you started the paperwork.
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  #48  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:13 AM
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I would never buy a gun without having it in my hands to inspect first

Ive seen too many that appear to be demo models, or have cosmetic flaws, or could be the gun they brought to numerous gun shows with excessive handling / dry firings.

I was about to buy a shotgun at BIG 5, but noticed it had a noticeable scratch on the receiver, I drove to another store 40 miles away for the nicer one they had in stock without any cosmetic flaws.
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  #49  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Illumi Naughty View Post
Went to Turner's yesterday, the guy behind counter knew about this, said Turner's has a new policy started last week that DROS will not start until Thursdays when the physical firearm is checked in at their store (Thursday is their delivery day). That means you won't be able to pick up the firearm 10 days from that Thursday (which will always be a Sunday). Potentially seeing a 17 day wait now if you happen to buy a gun from their warehouse on a Thursday because they can't start DROS until the following Thursday's delivery. Sundays will be insane because everyone from the week who DROS'd a gun will be there to pick up. He said customer's won't have to come back for the Thursday DROS, they will run a "soft DROS", assuming that means they run the DROS with the information you left with them when you started the paperwork.
For some that buys from Turner's, Thanks for the update. Wonder why Turner's didn't want to come here and update as its a major change and will effect the wait of more than 10 days.
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  #50  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Bull Elk View Post
I always thought that was the law. I can completely understand why you need to have the firearm. I don't see a problem with this at all. When I order a firearm the DROS begins after it arrives, not before. I'm good with that.
Me too.

I have never heard of nor seen any FFL who would actually submit a Dros into the system if the gun was not right there on the counter and in front of him. Not sure any Turners store would do that either, since they know how screwed up their inventory and delivery systems. are.
I did not read all posts. Has anyone ever bought a gun that was not physically in store at Turners, paid for it, dros submitted that day and picked up in 10 days??

My guess, They prolly sold too many things hoping it will come from the warehouse, but some did not get delivered/got lost/sold a warehouse gun to two different customers/sent to wrong store... . This is an attempt to cut down on the headaches.

Last edited by heidad01; 05-22-2018 at 9:53 AM..
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  #51  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by heidad01 View Post
Me too.

I have never heard of nor seen any FFL who would actually submit a Dros into the system if the gun was not right there on the counter and in front of him. Not sure any Turners store would do that either, since they know how screwed up their inventory and delivery systems. are.
I did not read all posts. Has anyone ever bought a gun that was not physically in store at Turners, paid for it, dros submitted that day and picked up in 10 days??

My guess, They prolly sold too many things hoping it will come from the warehouse, but some did not get delivered/got lost/sold a warehouse gun to two different customers/sent to wrong store... . This is an attempt to cut down on the headaches.
bought my first ar from turners like that. it was a m&p sport before it got super popular so turners was doing a calguns deal on it for $599.

went in, and bought one and the guy handling my DROS (i believe was a manager as he was in a black polo) said i couldn't really "check it out" since it was in the warehouse. that was my first, and i think only gun purchase from turners and i got lucky that my rifle had no issues when i went in to pick it up about 2 weeks later.
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  #52  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by heidad01 View Post
I did not read all posts. Has anyone ever bought a gun that was not physically in store at Turners, paid for it, dros submitted that day and picked up in 10 days??
every gun I've ever purchased at turners, save one, was in the warehouse when I started DROS. As long as they have a serial number, they would start.
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  #53  
Old 05-22-2018, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Why the weird quasi support of DOJ underground regulation?
Stockholm syndrome?

“Doesn’t effect me so I don’t care” attitude?

Kalifornians?
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  #54  
Old 05-22-2018, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by brian5271 View Post
I have bought a number of guns from Turner's and have never had them order it after I buy. I have always had the firearm there to inspect prior to purchase.
I too have purchased many guns from Turners, most from the Rancho store. I've always had a display gun to see and do the safty handling check but they never have the gun that I dros, they just look up the next serial number from the warehouse in the computer. Its never been an issue.
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  #55  
Old 05-22-2018, 4:01 PM
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About a year ago, I was DROS’ing at Dicks.

They wouldn’t start DROS without a gun, even called it a crime to do so.

This was even if the gun was in stock at the warehouse.
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  #56  
Old 05-22-2018, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
The DOJ doesn't care. ATF does. And ATF knows because only items in the bound book with an acquisition date on or before the date of the crime will be "in" that location.

DOJ does NOT do an inventory in an incident like this.
If that was the case, I would not have gotten dinged on a DoJ inspection for doing the DROS without the gun being present. I viewed it as a spiteful ding because it was an off-roster piece for an LEO customer.
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  #57  
Old 05-22-2018, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Illumi Naughty View Post
Went to Turner's yesterday, the guy behind counter knew about this, said Turner's has a new policy started last week that DROS will not start until Thursdays when the physical firearm is checked in at their store (Thursday is their delivery day). That means you won't be able to pick up the firearm 10 days from that Thursday (which will always be a Sunday). Potentially seeing a 17 day wait now if you happen to buy a gun from their warehouse on a Thursday because they can't start DROS until the following Thursday's delivery. Sundays will be insane because everyone from the week who DROS'd a gun will be there to pick up. He said customer's won't have to come back for the Thursday DROS, they will run a "soft DROS", assuming that means they run the DROS with the information you left with them when you started the paperwork.


Also not legal. To run a DROS they need to attempt to swipe your drivers license so unless you are leaving it with them they are still breaking the law.
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  #58  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:02 PM
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What a poopy rule. Couldn't figure out a situation so made it everyone's problem.
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  #59  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by toiletfighter View Post
Stockholm syndrome?

“Doesn’t effect me so I don’t care” attitude?

Kalifornians?
Serious. Buncha really dim people in here.

For the slow learners: YOU get to inspect the firearm when you PICKUP. It's not the same as buying sight unseen with no recourse, as too many keep insinuating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yzernie View Post
If that was the case, I would not have gotten dinged on a DoJ inspection for doing the DROS without the gun being present. I viewed it as a spiteful ding because it was an off-roster piece for an LEO customer.
yzernie, don't you think the circumstances are a bit different in your situation?

Turners is the FFL, they have several locations, probably not several FFL's. They're operating under one FFL and they have several stores with a main warehouse. They own and have possession of the inventory they're selling, it just might not be at the location your currently standing at.

They are NOT starting DROS on some firearm being transferred from a different FFL's inventory.
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  #60  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Serious. Buncha really dim people in here.

For the slow learners: YOU get to inspect the firearm when you PICKUP. It's not the same as buying sight unseen with no recourse, as too many keep insinuating.



yzernie, don't you think the circumstances are a bit different in your situation?

Turners is the FFL, they have several locations, probably not several FFL's. They're operating under one FFL and they have several stores with a main warehouse. They own and have possession of the inventory they're selling, it just might not be at the location your currently standing at.

They are NOT starting DROS on some firearm being transferred from a different FFL's inventory.
I'm shocked that people think the counter gun they handled at the store (Turners) was the one they drosed. Even back in the early 80s, I knew the gun I was looking at was not going to be the one I drosed and came home with, unless it was the last one. I don't see the issue, I'd rather take my chances with a gun that hasn't been played with for months or years. If the drosed gun has issues then you don't complete the dros.
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Last edited by golfish; 05-22-2018 at 9:32 PM..
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  #61  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Serious. Buncha really dim people in here.

For the slow learners: YOU get to inspect the firearm when you PICKUP. It's not the same as buying sight unseen with no recourse, as too many keep insinuating.



yzernie, don't you think the circumstances are a bit different in your situation?

Turners is the FFL, they have several locations, probably not several FFL's. They're operating under one FFL and they have several stores with a main warehouse. They own and have possession of the inventory they're selling, it just might not be at the location your currently standing at.

They are NOT starting DROS on some firearm being transferred from a different FFL's inventory.
They actually have an FFL for each location. Every retailer has an FFL for every address they operate in. The warehouse could be associated with 1 store. But every other store a firearm goes to is the same process as me receiving a firearm from Turners. They are internally moving the firearm between A&D books of their warehouse and retail stores (or potentially store to store if they do that). So technically it's the same as coming from a different FFLs inventory. It just so happens their corporate entity owns both source and target locations.
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  #62  
Old 05-22-2018, 9:57 PM
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If that was the case, I would not have gotten dinged on a DoJ inspection for doing the DROS without the gun being present. I viewed it as a spiteful ding because it was an off-roster piece for an LEO customer.
The DOJ never inspected any firearm I had in the middle of DROS. They only audited the complete DROS docs. I'm not sure of the details in your situation.

They did inspect my inventory but more along the lines of verifying rifles were CA legal.

Maybe it's something they are checking for now. How recent was your inspection? My last DOJ one was ~2 years ago.

ETA: I just realized the post you quoted of mine was in regards to what happens in a firearm loss. I'm not sure if you were referring to a burglary or robbery you were involved in. I was. CA DOJ NEVER asked me anything about the incident. Only ATF came in to inventory after the incident. That's what I was referring to in that post.

I was specifically responding to:
Quote:
DOJ could not discern what firearms were actually on site or in warehouse at the time of the crime.
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  #63  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
They actually have an FFL for each location. Every retailer has an FFL for every address they operate in. The warehouse could be associated with 1 store. But every other store a firearm goes to is the same process as me receiving a firearm from Turners. They are internally moving the firearm between A&D books of their warehouse and retail stores (or potentially store to store if they do that). So technically it's the same as coming from a different FFLs inventory. It just so happens their corporate entity owns both source and target locations.
That makes sense, thanks. Obviously that destroys my argument there. And I was totally assuming what I said.

But I have to ask, how do you know this? Is it because an FFL can ONLY be valid for one physical location? A person (corporation) can have multiple licences? How does that look on paper, are there license "numbers?"
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  #64  
Old 05-23-2018, 6:44 AM
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That makes sense, thanks. Obviously that destroys my argument there. And I was totally assuming what I said.

But I have to ask, how do you know this? Is it because an FFL can ONLY be valid for one physical location? A person (corporation) can have multiple licences? How does that look on paper, are there license "numbers?"
I know this because it's what the ATF says is required (FFL valid for 1 physical location). It's also public record and you can look it up. I don't have the link handy, but it's off the ATF site showing every single FFL # and licensed location in the nation.

You'll see places like Big 5 Sporting Goods #1 - #100 as an example. Many of them have a single mailing addresses (corporate), but the premises address is the "per location" address.

And I'm guessing you've never seen an FFL document. It looks exactly like an FFL03 / C&R doc but with different numbers. Every single FFL has a license number. For example:
https://fflezcheck.atf.gov/fflezchec...&licsSeq=00560

THe FFL Of each location is required to be posted. Next time you go into any FFL ask to see it (likely behind the counter next to their business license / state reseller's tax license, etc...).
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Old 05-23-2018, 8:52 AM
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Turner's did two on one DROS last month and neither gun was in the store at the time. I was dissappointed as I wanted to look at them.
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Old 05-23-2018, 9:06 AM
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I don't recall this one. Is it in the DES system or was it pre DES?
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  #67  
Old 05-23-2018, 9:15 AM
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The DOJ never inspected any firearm I had in the middle of DROS. They only audited the complete DROS docs. I'm not sure of the details in your situation.
The last 4 DOJ audits I had (last less than 2 years ago) the first thing they did is verify that every gun in the 10 day wait was physically in the store. Said one of the main things they look for is that dealers are making people wait the 10 days.
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Old 05-23-2018, 9:17 AM
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whether or not individuals here approve or disapprove this action by DOJ the fact remains it is a tightening of the screws, particularly on Turners.

the company has for years been the target of a high level of Ca DOJ inspections.

for better than 30 years the company has operated, under DOJ approval, the warehouse system.

the fact that DOJ reversed this long-standing system should not be seen as a positive development.

the goal is to shut down the firearms trade in this state. if this action by DOJ makes one happy, that person needs to re-evaluate their commitment to the cause.
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Old 05-23-2018, 9:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 2761377 View Post
whether or not individuals here approve or disapprove this action by DOJ the fact remains it is a tightening of the screws, particularly on Turners.

the company has for years been the target of a high level of Ca DOJ inspections.

for better than 30 years the company has operated, under DOJ approval, the warehouse system.

the fact that DOJ reversed this long-standing system should not be seen as a positive development.

the goal is to shut down the firearms trade in this state. if this action by DOJ makes one happy, that person needs to re-evaluate their commitment to the cause.
Your missing the point. It has been unfair for Turners to get a pass from the DOJ for the past 20 years while other dealers have been cited. This is not a new regulation as shown by the memo above.
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Old 05-23-2018, 9:42 AM
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^^^ if you really think the "point" is fairness to other dealers you're lost.

presumably you have a business?

please make it easy for me to avoid it.
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Old 05-23-2018, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 2761377 View Post
^^^ if you really think the "point" is fairness to other dealers you're lost.

presumably you have a business?

please make it easy for me to avoid it.
I don't, just worked in the industry off and on for years for many different FFL's
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Old 05-23-2018, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 2761377 View Post
^^^ if you really think the "point" is fairness to other dealers you're lost.

presumably you have a business?

please make it easy for me to avoid it.
Which Turner's do you work at?
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Old 05-23-2018, 1:39 PM
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Ah, way before my time is why I never saw that one.

Thanks
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Old 05-23-2018, 2:22 PM
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Purchased a pistol yesterday from Turner's. Yup, the new rule is in affect for Turner's. Sales person stated that the firearm must be present in order to start the DROS. This means a longer wait time. Since i purchased it on a Tuesday, the pistol won't arrive at the store til Friday, DROS starts Friday. Salesperson stated that I wouldn't have to come in. They would start the DROS automatically but would call me to confirm. Instead of a 10 day jail time, now its 14 for me.

Bottom line: firearm must be in the possession of the retailer in order to start DROS.

In the Rancho store, they were making more room for inventory to circumvent this issue.

The battle continues.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:45 PM
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So, are they using form BOF 929 at point of sale, then running when the delivery is received?

I was under the impression that the worksheet was for use when a Computer was not available, not the firearm. Tagged for further research, but I found the following:

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#6G

FAQ 9-11 describe a silly process where you swipe the card into a word processor, then print that out, unless your swipe fails, then a photocopy will suffice. What a circus.
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Old 05-24-2018, 5:26 AM
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I ordered a PC9 from Riflegear that was in stock at their Texas location. They told me I had to wait for it to arrive to DROS it.
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Old 05-24-2018, 8:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
then who knows. turners isn't that big of a corp that they have pull with the CA DOJ to circumvent a regulation.

they either have been doing this illegally and hoping no one notices, or they paid off their CA DOJ inspector.
Not a Mensa level leap. All due respect.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:10 AM
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Spoke w someone at Turners. If the gun is not at store, they will still do your paperwork, 4473 etc., and submit the DROS once it is at the the store, hence, the customer will not need to come back to start the DROS, but will not know exactly when 10 x 24 hour periods are done.
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Old 05-24-2018, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
That makes sense, thanks. Obviously that destroys my argument there. And I was totally assuming what I said.

But I have to ask, how do you know this? Is it because an FFL can ONLY be valid for one physical location? A person (corporation) can have multiple licences? How does that look on paper, are there license "numbers?"
It's a fact as I experienced a mistake on their part. When I DROSED a shotgun months ago and the salesman entered the FFL number that Turners in Oxnard possessed, I was at the Reseda branch. When the 10 days came up, they realized the salesman made the mistake by entering the Oxnard branch number instead of Reseda. I had to wait another 10 days, but Turners obviously paid for that additional DROS.
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Old 05-24-2018, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Dick View Post
I was at Turner's Outdoorsman in Oxnard today taking delivery of a pistol after the 10 day wait. No problem with that, but clerks in the firearms department were all abuzz about a "new" rule that has come down from the DOJ. According to the clerks, a dealer must have the firearm present when they start the DROS. As many of you know, Turners usually shows the customer a new firearm and when you agree to buy one, it acquires a serial number from the warehouse and begins the DROS. The firearm shows up later at the store before delivery. According to the clerks, now the DROS cannot begin until the firearm arrives. Needless to say, they were a bit bummed out.

I guess this will effect those dealers who also DROS new firearms at gun shows based on serial numbers of firearms back at their shop. It appears they will have to bring all their firearms with them or have you come to their store to actually DROS the thing. That should slow things down a bit for the consumer.
Good.

In free states you do the 10 min background check and walk out with the firearm you looked at. That’s how it should be.

At least the CDOJ is modernizing some of their old bad habits that simply don’t fly in other states.
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