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  #1  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:43 AM
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Default "bag" limit vs. "possession" limit?

I've looked through my hunter education book, and read through various hunting regs online, and I can't find the answer to this question. If you can point me to the actual legal text, I'd appreciate that greatly.

Let's say I'm hunting tree squirrels. CA's regs state:

Code:
(c) Bag and Possession Limit: Four squirrels per day, four in possession.
Bag limit is easy, I assume. If I'm in the field and the warden stops me, I'd better not have more than 4 in my pockets.

possession limit, though, I'm not sure of. Is this in my freezer at home? in my car driving home after several days of hunting? What if I'm in an RV, and my car has a freezer?

Thanks.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:47 AM
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Possesson is what they say. You better not have more than 4 squirrels in possession espacially in vehicle freezer or not.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:18 AM
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bag limit is how many you take that day. possession limit is how many you possess in total. at home, in car, in a cooler anywere. if bag limit is 4 and possession 12. you go hunting for 4 days and take a limit everyday. make sure you eat 4 before you go get a limit the 4th day.

1st day-4
2nd day-4
3rd day-4
possession limit reached
you eat 4 on the 3rd night, back down to 8
4th day - 4
possession limit reached
etc.

that's how it was explained to me

Last edited by jbk; 05-22-2018 at 11:22 AM..
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:22 AM
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Thanks, JBK. I was afraid of that... makes the idea of traveling to hunt squirrel a lot less attractive.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk View Post
bag limit is how many you take that day. possession limit is how many you possess in total. at home, in car, in a cooler anywere. if bag limit is 4 and possession 12. you go hunting for 4 days and take a limit everyday. make sure you eat 4 before you go get a limit the 4th day.

1st day-4
2nd day-4
3rd day-4
possession limit reached
you eat 4 on the 3rd night, back down to 8
4th day - 4
possession limit reached
etc.

that's how it was explained to me
This is incorrect^^^^

They raised the possession limit on most birds (not all) to triple the daily bag, but not on mammals.

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Small-Game

You can have only four tree squirrels in the field and only four at home but you can gift them to keep yourself under the possession limit.

Now, lets say you shot four and took them home and gave them to your wife, now you can go the next day and shoot four more, then you take them home and give them to your child, then you can go out the next day and shoot four more.

Now you and your family legally have twelve at home.


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Old 05-22-2018, 12:22 PM
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I was making a example for explination purposes, that's why I said "if". I was not making a definite saying possession is 3 time bag.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
If you can point me to the actual legal text, I'd appreciate that greatly.
From the CA mammal hunting regulations:

CCR T14-252. Bag and
Possession Limit Defined.
“Bag and possession limit” means the daily bag
limit of each kind of resident and migratory game
birds, game mammals and furbearing mammals
which may be taken and possessed by any one
person unless otherwise authorized.

Legalese is decoded as per jbk's post above.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:35 PM
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The law is stupid. Duck limit is 7 per day with 14 in possession. I don't know anybody who shoots ducks with any regularity who won't blow by the possession limit during or after the season. My personal intuition is that it is a way to combat poaching without catching them in the act or harvest for commercial sale. Regardless, If the state were to start citing anyone for being over they should just start at my house and get it over with, even though EVERYTHING I have in my freezer was obtained with legal methods of take and abiding by legal limits.

TLDR: Don't worry about it when at home.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:40 PM
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It was an example huntsprig. Yes many possession limits are 3 times but some one days.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk View Post
I was making a example for explination purposes, that's why I said "if". I was not making a definite saying possession is 3 time bag.
Got Ya!
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:56 PM
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I got drawn for Sage hens near Bodie 1 bird possession limit. I managed to find quail and chukar near lone pine otherwise long trip for 1 bird. Went to disorderly house in Hawthorne so not a total waste. (LO) Won 300 bucks at casino. Boy the price of hookers has gone up.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:56 PM
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Because you can give away game, you can double, triple, quadruple your possession limit by bringing people along with you. Wife, kid, friend, doesn't matter. HOWEVER, this doesn't give you the ability to increase your daily bag limit, or "party hunt" to the group limit.


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Last edited by jjjjeremy; 05-22-2018 at 1:09 PM..
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2018, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdogg21 View Post
TLDR: Don't worry about it when at home.
My concern isn't really "at home", but leaving the campsite in the RV after a 3 or 4 day trip. There's not a lot of game wardens in Compton. :-)
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:00 PM
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You better rethink the gifting. I wonder if you get stopped and you have only license and are over limit whether the warden will let that slide? I know the wardens I del with probably won"t. Todd Tognazzini and Chris Stoots. I think they would write their mom a citation on a bad day(LOL) Shay will back me on this.
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:03 PM
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and yea lew is right. don't worry about possession at home. you'll get popped for possession limits in the field. if you have questions call fish and game office. ask them. they aren't big bag monsters. most are hunters. I have even had some tell me a law makes no sense. get your answer, make a note of what office, what warden and what time you spoke to them. throw the note in your wallet. any issues, show GW I called here at this time and this is what I was told. however, "if" you have a GW come to your home to check you possession limit by some stretch of imagination, I don't know I would go with "oh, I'm over 4, well I have those 4 to my wife".

Last edited by jbk; 05-22-2018 at 1:06 PM..
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
You better rethink the gifting. I wonder if you get stopped and you have only license and are over limit whether the warden will let that slide? I know the wardens I del with probably won"t. Todd Tognazzini and Chris Stoots. I think they would write their mom a citation on a bad day(LOL) Shay will back me on this.
It's extremely common. See this F&G article on gifting abalone, which applies to all game species.

https://californiaoutdoorsqas.com/20...-gift-abalone/

Here's another article, too:

https://californiaoutdoorsqas.com/tag/gifting/
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:10 PM
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^^ Yes my concern is if you are doing it in field while transporting catch/take and gifting to person riding with you. How the warden might interpret that. Pretty gray area to me. Example if you take a limit day 1 and gift that to someone then on same day take another limit that is no no.

Last edited by edgerly779; 05-22-2018 at 1:31 PM..
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^ Yes my concern is if you are doing it in field while transporting catch/take and gifting to person riding with you. How the warden might interpret that. Pretty gray area to me.
I think it's pretty black and white. It's a completely legal practice that's sanctioned by F&G, and shows up in their Q&As.

you CAN'T do it in the field. that's increasing your bag limit. gifting does not increase bag limits, only possession limits. the only time when you theoretically COULD do it in the field is on a multi-day backpacking trip, but then you'd risk spoiling.

an easy solution is to take a cell phone photo of you with your limit on the first day. I've been through dozens of abalone check points with multi-day limits spread across family members riding in the same car. The wardens know that it's legal, and have never given me trouble at all. If you're that concerned just print out a copy of the Q&As and bring them with you.

Last edited by jjjjeremy; 05-22-2018 at 1:17 PM..
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk View Post
however, "if" you have a GW come to your home to check you possession limit by some stretch of imagination, I don't know I would go with "oh, I'm over 4, well I have those 4 to my wife".
I would.

It is 100% legal.

Quote:
According to Department of Fish and Game (DFG) Northern Enforcement District Chief Mike Carion, any person is allowed to have a possession limit of birds as long as they were taken legally by a licensed hunter. In addition, if you live at home with a significant other and three children (for example), you can possess five possession limits of waterfowl in that home.
https://californiaoutdoorsqas.com/20...imits-legally/
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Old 05-22-2018, 1:40 PM
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I was talking about in the field. Thats all.
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Old 05-22-2018, 2:09 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
I was talking about in the field. Thats all.
Being "in the field" or not has zero effect on the legality of bag limits, possession limits, or gifting. The bag limit restricts what you're allowed to kill in a day, the possession limit restricts what an individual is allowed to own. You could even go diving for lobster at 10:00pm, surface at 11:00pm, give them to a friend, and go down at 12:00am for another limit, all the while diving from the same boat without returning to shore.

Any law enforcement officer, warden or otherwise, needs probable cause to issue a citation for any criminal violation. If you have photos of the possession limit on day 1, a printout of the F&G Q&As, and a one page gift receipt signed and dated by the hunter and recipient, you would have an extremely hard time trying to find an officer willing to risk professional censure for issuing an unconstitutional citation.
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Old 05-22-2018, 2:45 PM
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Fortunately, in my case, the gifting issue doesn't exist.

My wife will be hunting with me, and we don't like people enough to have any friends with us. :-)
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Old 05-22-2018, 3:05 PM
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Do you have a spot for tree squirrels? Lots of them up here in nor cal and lots of national forest land. I like hunting them when deer season is over. Not many people out in the woods that time of year.
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Old 05-22-2018, 3:11 PM
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Do you have a spot for tree squirrels? .
right at this moment, I know precisely zero about hunting squirrels... but I have a bunch of recipes. :-)

Last edited by BigFatGuy; 05-22-2018 at 3:11 PM.. Reason: swear word
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Old 05-22-2018, 4:23 PM
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right at this moment, I know precisely zero about hunting squirrels... but I have a bunch of recipes. :-)
the secret to eatin squirrels is all about the gravy. as the gravy and the bread or biscuits you use to sop it up is more filling than the meat ,lol.
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Old 05-22-2018, 4:30 PM
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the secret to eatin squirrels is all about the gravy. as the gravy and the bread or biscuits you use to sop it up is more filling than the meat ,lol.
Gumbo. I make a mean gumbo, and any animal tastes good when you make it into gumbo.
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Old 05-22-2018, 4:48 PM
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We use to go up north for abs. I would go and get 4(limit them) and come back to camp. If we did or did not cook any I would give them to my wife. The next day I would get 4 more and give them to my daughter. The last day I would get 4 more for myself.
We have been checked at the end or in the middle of the diving days and all was ok. They did require that they be in different goodie bags and 4 to a bag or we both/all had to be holding it at the same time to be legal. Kind of stupid but I did not make the rules.
This was before tags. After tags it was the same but then the limit(daily) was reduced and a total season limit enforced. I stopped diving a number of years ago and now there is no season for them so no diving at all.
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Old 05-22-2018, 5:13 PM
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Squirrel is goooooooood. I'll spend several days camping and hunting them every year. Usually more than one trip.
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Old 05-22-2018, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
Thanks, JBK. I was afraid of that... makes the idea of traveling to hunt squirrel a lot less attractive.
I never have hunted tree squirrels only, but I have shot quite a few while quail hunting.

Do a combo hunt.


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Old 05-22-2018, 6:17 PM
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Just document the gift. Day, day of take, lic number, recipient.
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Old 05-23-2018, 1:56 PM
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I think about it as an enforcement issue. If they already busted you for one thing (like hunting trophies in National Parks), then they get to check your house for other violations. "Behold! A cache of 40 freshly-shot squirrels! Cite him another one, Jim!"

Other than that, it's basically a non-issue.

However, I use bag/possession limits as an indication of how plentiful that species is. If the limits are generous, there's plenty to go around. If they're restrictive, then I'd probably just stop at my bag limit for the year or thereabouts.
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Old 05-23-2018, 6:06 PM
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Daily bag limit is limits per day. Possession is at home & in the field
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Old 05-23-2018, 6:33 PM
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If you get your limit for the day that is all you can get for that day.....simple

You can gift all you want....but you can't go back and get another limit the same day......I gar-o-tee if the warden can prove that you are have exceeded your daily limit, there will be a ticket issued.

If you catch 5 trout and put one on your buddy's stringer and catch one more you are over the daily limit.
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Old 05-23-2018, 7:01 PM
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^^^ Yes this is true and I have seen this happen with Ab diving
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Old 05-23-2018, 9:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefeeder View Post
If you get your limit for the day that is all you can get for that day.....simple

You can gift all you want....but you can't go back and get another limit the same day......I gar-o-tee if the warden can prove that you are have exceeded your daily limit, there will be a ticket issued.

If you catch 5 trout and put one on your buddy's stringer and catch one more you are over the daily limit.
In the salt, boat limits got installed. Everyone can keep fishing until the collective daily limit is met. Partyboats did it that way for decades before it was made the law/legal.

The caveat, is if there's a violation (like a short salmon), everyone on the boat can be cited.
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdogg21 View Post
The law is stupid. Duck limit is 7 per day with 14 in possession. .
Possession limit for Ducks and Geese is three times the daily bag limit.
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Old 05-24-2018, 2:41 PM
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^^^good catch. My bad.
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Giving lewdogg21 advice on hunting. That’s like David Hogg giving advice to the NRA.
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Disagree. Been trying to teach lewdogg21 how to hunt. It's like trying to teach Steve Wonder how to see. Not sure we're ever going to get there.
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