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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 05-23-2018, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
?? My PA-10 18" weighs 7.8 pounds w/o optics. That's close to some AR-15's.
It isn’t a mystery, hahah. The receivers and barrels are beefed up compared to AR-15’s ... yup heavy rifles are heavy. The .308 isn’t a .22
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2018, 3:26 AM
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Thordo FRS/MAGPUL SL 16" PA-10 Burris AR536 = 10 pounds 2.5 ounces

Thordo FRS/MAGPUL SL 16" 5.56 Vortex SPARC AR = 7 pounds 9 ounces

41.5 ounces.

Socom16 Strikefire = 9 pounds 9 ounces
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  #43  
Old 05-23-2018, 6:38 AM
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Question Do you suppose

Grandpa complained about the weight of his Garand?

He and his pals were smaller back then too...
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  #44  
Old 05-23-2018, 6:46 AM
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Try a different sling, I prefer the balance of a 2 point vs 3 point, currently using the VTAC wide padded sling is very comfortable for my AR10 (LRP07 ~9.5 lbs with optics).
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  #45  
Old 05-23-2018, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFancyPants View Post
So I went out shooting this past weekend and took a couple rifles, one of which is my Windham Weaponry 308. It has an 18" barrel, which I thought was a good choice when I bought it because I wanted a little more barrel for the 308 round. Well it's just a little too heavy to shoot off hand so I can't realistically use it for run and gun type shooting. It's just really hard to keep it on target because I'm fighting to hold it up and steady, and that's when I'm calm, so I can only imagine what it would be like if I was under stress. Yes I can take a knee or find an object to prop it up against, which helps, but that limits its usefulness in certain situations.

Now I'm torn on whether to keep it as is and just practice and use it for what it can do, try to shave off some weight, or sell it and build a lighter, more versatile 16" 308. Just looking for thoughts from anybody who has faced the same challenge.
It's probably not the actual weight that is the problem.
It's probably the BALANCE.

You can have a 15lb rifle that's a dream to shoot offhand if it's balanced.
You can have a 10lb rifle that's front heavy and FEELS heavier than the balanced 15lb rifle because you are fighting the imbalance.
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  #46  
Old 05-23-2018, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightcav View Post
I think OP may need to work on his Natural Point of Aim. Its sounds like he is fighting his body.
Bone support trumps muscle support every time...
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  #47  
Old 05-23-2018, 9:14 AM
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  #48  
Old 05-23-2018, 10:20 AM
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An 16” isn’t much lighter if any depending on optics and hand guard... I was surprised I think my 18" Mlok tube rifle is about the same as the 16” but no Thordo so that might be why.

Last edited by crufflers; 05-23-2018 at 2:03 PM..
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  #49  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Bone support trumps muscle support every time...
While everyone debates lighter equipment, sling choices, or exercise regimen, no one is discussing how to achieve good support.

Of course someone will say "That doesn't work in run-n-gun shooting", but a slow "A zone" shot beats a rapid miss any day....

Last edited by smoothy8500; 07-25-2018 at 6:41 AM..
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  #50  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:12 PM
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That's just wrong. You will never see that at an IPSC or 3-gun match. If someone does do it you won't have to look very hard, just follow the laughter.
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  #51  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
That's just wrong. You will never see that at an IPSC or 3-gun match. If someone does do it you won't have to look very hard, just follow the laughter.
I see .308's at 3-gun matches with regularity. If you want to shoot heavy division, the .308 is the caliber of choice.
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  #52  
Old 05-23-2018, 6:11 PM
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I have the first gen of a DPMS SASS 18" barrel, compared to my Larue 16" PredatOBR, the DPMS is a freaking fat pig. I would say neither one is great for run and gun.
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  #53  
Old 05-23-2018, 6:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFancyPants View Post
So I went out shooting this past weekend and took a couple rifles, one of which is my Windham Weaponry 308. It has an 18" barrel, which I thought was a good choice when I bought it because I wanted a little more barrel for the 308 round. Well it's just a little too heavy to shoot off hand so I can't realistically use it for run and gun type shooting. It's just really hard to keep it on target because I'm fighting to hold it up and steady, and that's when I'm calm, so I can only imagine what it would be like if I was under stress. Yes I can take a knee or find an object to prop it up against, which helps, but that limits its usefulness in certain situations.

Now I'm torn on whether to keep it as is and just practice and use it for what it can do, try to shave off some weight, or sell it and build a lighter, more versatile 16" 308. Just looking for thoughts from anybody who has faced the same challenge.

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I had a 11.5 inch barrel on my 308 pistol and honestly it wasn’t that bad with recoil.

Remember if you’re a smaller guy/gal you will have issues with its weight. Most aren’t strong enough to hold and shoot if for very long. I don’t see a 110 pound man recreationally shooting a 308 pistol for very long.
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  #54  
Old 05-23-2018, 7:28 PM
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Do you even lift, bro?
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  #55  
Old 05-23-2018, 8:05 PM
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My LaRue Predatar .308 with 18" barrel is not heavy at all. Feels like a 20" barrel AR-15. It has a thin barrel, but is super accurate
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  #56  
Old 05-23-2018, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
While everyone debates lighter equipment, sling choices, or exercise regimen, no one is discussing how to achieve good support.

Of course someone will say "That doesn't work in run-n-gun shooting", but a slow "A zone" shot beats a rapid miss any day....
Real life ain’t a high power match...

Higjpower is good for learning fundamentals, who cares about X count as long as you can keep them in the middle of a man sized silhouette.
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  #57  
Old 05-23-2018, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It's probably not the actual weight that is the problem.
It's probably the BALANCE.

You can have a 15lb rifle that's a dream to shoot offhand if it's balanced.
You can have a 10lb rifle that's front heavy and FEELS heavier than the balanced 15lb rifle because you are fighting the imbalance.
I agree with this. I experienced this on my 20" DMR build. I lightened the front of the rifle and as the weight was brought closer to my body the rifle became much easier to hold and swing.
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  #58  
Old 05-23-2018, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless View Post
I had a 11.5 inch barrel on my 308 pistol and honestly it wasn’t that bad with recoil.

Remember if you’re a smaller guy/gal you will have issues with its weight. Most aren’t strong enough to hold and shoot if for very long. I don’t see a 110 pound man recreationally shooting a 308 pistol for very long.
That 11.5" has got to be a flame thrower. I imagine that if you somehow miss with the 308 the fireball will still reach out and give them a bad day.
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  #59  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I see .308's at 3-gun matches with regularity. If you want to shoot heavy division, the .308 is the caliber of choice.
I don't think you saw what I was replying to.

I shot my M1A in a 3 gun. It was at Richmond where they luvvvvv high round counts. I think I used 3 twenty round mags in one stage, and by the end of the stage I could hardly hold the rifle straight and it beat the hell out of me every time I pulled the trigger.
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  #60  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:37 AM
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Do you even lift bro?
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  #61  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:45 AM
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+1 Hit the gym.
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  #62  
Old 05-24-2018, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I shot my M1A in a 3 gun.... and by the end of the stage I could hardly hold the rifle straight and it beat the hell out of me every time I pulled the trigger.
I hear you. I was running either my M1A or Garand in the Heavy Metal Div. I only used the "classic NRA" stance for the 150yd+ shots. Still, if you brace the support arm against the chest in a forward stance on most shots, it will reduce muscle fatigue in the long run.

Although the C-grip works great with a lightweight carbine, it just doesn't work on a heavy 308 AR, or especially the M1A/Garand rifle.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 05-24-2018 at 6:14 AM..
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  #63  
Old 05-24-2018, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I don't think you saw what I was replying to.

I shot my M1A in a 3 gun. It was at Richmond where they luvvvvv high round counts. I think I used 3 twenty round mags in one stage, and by the end of the stage I could hardly hold the rifle straight and it beat the hell out of me every time I pulled the trigger.
Daily workout like this will help build up muscles


Last edited by HotelCommiefornia; 05-24-2018 at 5:23 PM..
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  #64  
Old 05-24-2018, 6:00 PM
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Watch out for "tennis elbow"
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  #65  
Old 05-24-2018, 6:30 PM
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I see AirSoft in your future, they aren't too heavy, anymore.

Last edited by hambam105; 05-24-2018 at 9:36 PM..
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  #66  
Old 05-24-2018, 9:38 PM
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^ Ive shot some airsoft that were heavier than my AR15s. haha.
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  #67  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:32 PM
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When I got into the 308 game I went with a lighter CA frendly non-scary option. My Browning BAR MK3 DBM is a great rifle and was remarkably light for what it is at 6 lbs 10 oz.

Lots of good advice with light add-ons. I put a beast of a scope and rings on mine adding 2 lbs overall. Trijicon Accupower 1-8 34x28. Still not bad but I'm looking for ultralight rings in the near future to shave some ozs.

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  #68  
Old 05-25-2018, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
When I got into the 308 game I went with a lighter CA frendly non-scary option. My Browning BAR MK3 DBM is a great rifle and was remarkably light for what it is at 6 lbs 10 oz.

Lots of good advice with light add-ons. I put a beast of a scope and rings on mine adding 2 lbs overall. Trijicon Accupower 1-8 34x28. Still not bad but I'm looking for ultralight rings in the near future to shave some ozs.

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NICE. I wanted one for quite a while. FNAR are pretty sweet too - and look great with a standard stock. Wish they took Magpul mags.
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  #69  
Old 05-25-2018, 7:48 PM
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Me too. Midwayusa.com sells the 10 and 5 rounders for $50 each. I got mine for less but not sure if those days are over for good.

It's a great option especially in CA. The hogs might disagree...
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Old 05-25-2018, 8:28 PM
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Yeah I think my Checkmate mags for M1A's were $25 shipped or so, AR10/Magpul were probably $15.
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  #71  
Old 05-25-2018, 8:33 PM
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Cmon - a cute blonde carried an AR10 all over the Kent State campus and didn't complain once. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1448598
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