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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#281
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On that wonderful day, I go down to the Santa Clara Co. Sheriff office to get an application, and they refuse to give me one because they don't accept them anyway. What would one do then? |
#282
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History would seem to indicate that yes, they might be that stupid. The next sign of Illinois intelligently managing their gun control litigation I see will the the first.
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#283
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Just as no one seriously resisted Heller or McDonald, no one will seriously resist a SCOTUS carry ruling. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#284
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With all this talk of eventual shall issue, my question is once shall issue does materialize here in California will we see more local Police Chiefs go with issuance or will they most remain with delegating it to the County sheriff?
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#285
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In some places I expect you'll see some friendly competition over time. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#286
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#288
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-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#290
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1) Is that still true? 2) If yes, what counties do you think will require "special attention"? 3) If yes, how long after the SCOTUS decision do you think it would take to get all CA counties to comply?
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 12-12-2012 at 5:20 PM.. |
#291
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#292
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Since I said that we've actually made progress in a couple of the counties I thought would hold out have made significant progress. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#293
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Based on conversations I've had with a number of LEA's over the past couple of years, I think a shall-issue environment such as that we seek in Richards will gradually (and, depending on the politics, possibly more rapidly) push the process "upwards", perhaps with the local agencies handling the front end and the DOJ handling the back end of the process. Consider:
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When the local agencies become not much more than an administrative function and their already cash-strapped budgets have to bear a huge number of California licensees (think 3-5% of ~28Mil on a 2 year rolling basis, any number of things might happen including (but not limited to): * LEAs push to make DOJ the sole source. * LEAs push to extend the license duration. * LEAs push to remove or raise the limit on allowable fees. As Gene often notes here and elsewhere, we're asking the various sheriffs to issue as many licenses as they can now or, alternatively, be prepared for court orders telling them to remedy their policies and practices such that non-prohibited people have real and timely access to a license - and stronger as may be required to compel the constitutional outcome. We're also putting some other bugs in a number of ears related to the above provisions of the Penal Code and bullet points. We can't stress enough how important a CA9 win would be for all of us. It would change the game overnight. -Brandon
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#294
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Someone will no doubt have to 'splain it to Sheriff Jones (using pictures and very small words) so denial by delay goes away
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Proud CGN Contributor USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools |
#295
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I just had to quote this
"Some gun control advocates believe their best chance is with the Supreme Court, despite recent rulings — including one overturning Chicago's handgun ban — that found citizens have a Second Amendment right to have a gun for self-defense in their homes. Flynn Currie said she is encouraged by the court's silence on the right to carry concealed weapons and wants Madigan to appeal the ruling. The Supreme Court's rulings on the Second Amendment were "very limited, saying the home is your castle, and it didn't apply to other places," she said. "For that reason, it's worth checking on that question." " http://news.yahoo.com/court-ruling-i...080837569.html Can i just say: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep thinking this way if they appeal straight to SCOTUS by passing en banc then truely the timeline on this being heard gets moved up?
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NRA Life member, multi organization continued donor etc etc etc Last edited by ddestruel; 12-12-2012 at 8:50 PM.. |
#296
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Assume 3% of 28 million; that gives a nice number of 840,000. Guess that each app review and approval takes a whole hour of staff time. Assume that the offices will not devote more (or less) than 8 hours per day, 5 days per week to this task. That's 105,000 staff-days, or 525 FTE across the state (and we know the heavier burdens would fall on the more populous counties and cities). An LA County Sheriffs Deputy gets a minimum of $4,702/month. A number of issuing agencies seem to believe that's the right/minimum level of staff to review LTC apps. 3% of LA's 7.5 million LTC-eligible is 225,000. That would be 140 FTE deputies devoted to nothing but LTC apps, every year, now until forever; wikipedia says there are nominally 9100 sworn members of LASO, so they would need about a 1.5% staff increase to use roughly $8 million dollars per year in staff time. (Benefits and other overhead not included here. Rule of thumb: salary * 1.5 to get salary + benefits for gov't employees. Overhead hard to guess, but can be as much as 1.3 * salary in what I've read.) The answer is likely to be simplified process, a shorter process, and review by less-expensive staff -- if review is required at all in ordinary cases.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#297
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A big thank you to all those involved here in our fight in CA.. Gene, Brandon, Bill, Grey and the many others.. I will always continue to support CGF, SAF and the NRA. I look forward to the fruits of your labor!
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#298
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So some of the potential damage depend entirely on how the en banc process works. Is the original decision depublished immediately? I would expect it would be depublished only if en banc is granted, and that suggests to me that Moore stands unscathed even if someone on the 7th circuit wants to dissent the en banc denial. And that means the strategic value of Moore remains in place throughout all of that. Quote:
While I appreciate that the anti-gun courts haven't done much to contest Heller and McDonald (Jackson v San Francisco is somewhat on the fence with respect to that), carry in public is a whole different animal, and the temptation to resist will be much greater. Hence, as regards how the California district courts in the anti-gun stronghold areas will respond, I am quite skeptical, but have just a hint of hope as well. The only history I think can be any sort of guide here is NAACP v Alabama. I am more than happy to be schooled otherwise, however.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#299
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#300
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Everyone else, save yourselves some time and plz skip the lame 2 weeks jokes....
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#301
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This. The tireless work of you folks on our behalf and on the behalf of future generations will bring blessings to your houses.
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Who is John Galt? |
#302
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Shall issue should also mean an end to the interview process and rely solely upon the results of your background check.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#303
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Proud CGN Contributor USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools Last edited by Drivedabizness; 12-12-2012 at 9:34 PM.. Reason: Context/spelling |
#304
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#305
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Al Norris, am I correct in assuming that the 9th has the same rules you stated re. this case in that there's a 14 day window for requesting en banc and 90 days for requesting cert.?
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 12-12-2012 at 10:08 PM.. |
#306
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Honestly as long as the DROS system is up and running there is no reason (other than state and locally mandated bureaucracy) why 90% of permits can't be approved and temporary permits issued while you wait (10-15 minutes) with a drivers license like permit to follow in a couple of weeks. Basically swipe your drivers license and check the training complete box (like a handgun purchase) take a picture, and out pops the rice paper temp LTC.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association Last edited by sholling; 12-12-2012 at 10:13 PM.. |
#307
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The first thing we need to do after we force this state to start issuing, is get rid of those stupid rice paper permits.
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Proud to belong to the NRA Members' Council of Santa Clara County Disclaimer: All opinions are entirely my own. |
#308
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I'll believe it when I have a CCW in my hand and I don't have to jump through ALL of the unreasonable hoops and restrictions that San Bernardino County puts on its permission slips.
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Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law Last edited by The Shadow; 12-12-2012 at 10:43 PM.. |
#309
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Hawaii and California might get "Shall Issue" at the sametime. But I would be more inclined to believe that even Hawaii will get "Shall Issue" before California. Some might disagree with me, but I see no evidence to support their position.
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Speaking about the destruction of the United States. "I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide. Abraham Lincoln Speech at Edwardsville, IL, September 11, 1858 Godwin's law |
#310
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Note that this applies only to the law that was specifically challenged. Other challenges to other laws will have to wait for the full decision to be published before they can properly be adjudicated, since for challenges to other laws, the details matter. I appreciate what you're saying here, but the Constitution must reign supreme, or the republic which was built on it is nothing but a sham.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#311
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If they had a bit of sense (I know that's asking a lot) the state would make it no more complicated than getting a drivers license. Show up with your proof of training like you do with insurance, they run an instant check using your drivers license, take your picture and you're on your way. Heck hand it off to the (yikes!) DMV because they already have your prints on file. The permanent LTC could look like a drivers license or just be added to drivers licenses/ID Cards the way a motorcycle endorsement is added. The infrastructure is already in place at the DMV and it would save a cash strapped state a ton of money.
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"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --FREDERIC BASTIAT-- Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the California Rifle & Pistol Association |
#312
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Also, I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to all of those involved in fighting for our rights! Lawyers, Foundation organizers, monetary contributors, etc.
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Last edited by stingray4540; 12-12-2012 at 11:09 PM.. |
#313
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RAPBACK is where if you're put into the system, the issuing authority gets a ping to let them know you've been arrested. Quote:
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#314
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www.christopherjhoffman.com The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights. Magna est veritas et praevalebit |
#315
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[QUOTE=stingray4540;9909728]Never gonna happen. They still print hunting/fishing licenses on stupid unwieldy paper. Isn't CA the home of the silicon valley? The birthplace of technology? And we can't print F'ing credit card type licenses?! Hell, just print paper ones that are CC sized so we can laminate them.
San Bernardino county does issue cc style permits complete with photo. They switched from rice paper a few years back. |
#316
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An extreme reaction that I don't anticipate. Quote:
Well, that's just something else that can be brought up during the negotiations with the legislature. After all, Chicago can give up the fight against Ezell any time they want (or can be forced) to. Can't they? Quote:
That's how I see it. Quote:
I seem to recall that SCOTUS basically 'grabbed' the Miller case (just by-passed all the interim steps) back in 1939. Doesn't SCOTUS have the ability to do the same thing with Moore? Presuming that they do still have that ability, is there any way to ask that they do so? The Raisuli
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"Ignorance is a steep hill with perilous rocks at the bottom" WTB: 9mm cylinder for Taurus Mod. 85 |
#317
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In those rules there is a 14 day window, from the day the panel decision is posted (as "published" or "unpublished") to file a motion for en banc consideration and/or a motion for the panel to reconsider (usually both motions are made in the same filing). In the present case (Moore/Shepard), the State has until Dec. 26th to file for en banc. Christmas being a holiday, is excluded from the count. If Lisa Madigan does not file for en banc consideration, then the 90 day clock for filing a petition for cert continues, as it started at the same time. That clock runs out on March 11th (excluding Xmas and New Years), if I have counted correctly. Allow me to further clarify a point of law that some are misconstruing. As it stands, the law in IL is not yet unconstitutional. The panel made the following order (emphasis added): Quote:
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Then and only then, will the law become unconstitutional. The IL Legislature can, in the meantime, repeal and/or amend the existing law to comply with the Circuit Court's mandate. This will have the affect of mooting the cases. Unless... They do what Chicago did in Ezell. I don't see this happening, but one never knows.
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Listings of the Current 2A Cases, over at the Firing Line. Last edited by Al Norris; 12-13-2012 at 7:25 AM.. Reason: clarity |
#318
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#319
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#320
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