Single Shot Exemption Explanation/Database Thread

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by anoldguy

Check out post #2 from Cyc_Wid_It above and the 1st & 3rd Q&A.
M

Those questions have nothing to do with what ke6guj and I are discussing.

The thing that ke6guj and I are discussing is if they need to be fixed to be considered a "Single Shot" pistol.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

at the time of DROS, it just needs to be presently a "single shot" pistol, not that you could make it a multi-shot pistol.

Just like some people initially thought you needed to render a single-shot pistol incapable of automatically extracting the spent round, I think that this is just cautiousness that people have for "conventional" pistols that are being made SSE.

I see where you're coming from with that. And it does seem to make sense.

I still think some kind of lock would be a good CYA feature to have.

[G1500]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

I see where you're coming from with that. And it does seem to make sense.

I still think some kind of lock would be a good CYA feature to have.

When I hear "Magazine lock" I think BB type lock, or something that manipulates the magazine release so that it will no longer release the magazine.

When I think of single shot pistol, I don't think BB style mag lock, I think appropriate OAL and BBL length and no way to fit any type of magazine into the firearm. Whether this is accomplished by fitting a dummy magazine into the magwell and rendering the release useless (With a screw or whatever means), or by putting a blocking plate into the upper part of the magazine well that is held in by means of a screw or clips so that a standard magazine will not fit into the firearm.

If and how the manufacturer wishes to cover their *** is up to them.

[RippSpeed]

Just picked up my P30LS variant 1 from StraightLine Tactical, after the one shot convo from Table Rock Arms... Both awesome customer service and will be going back to straightline tactical for my AR10 lower...

I will wait for the CCW rules to change here in Los Angeles (fingers cross)... And I'll do a HK USP compact or an another P30 from Table Rock Arms...

here she is:


Heckler & Koch P30LS variant 1 by rippspeed1, on Flickr

[emgee00]

Originally Posted by RippSpeed

Just picked up my P30LS variant 1 from StraightLine Tactical, after the one shot convo from Table Rock Arms... Both awesome customer service and will be going back to straightline tactical for my AR10 lower...

I will wait for the CCW rules to change here in Los Angeles (fingers cross)... And I'll do a HK USP compact or an another P30 from Table Rock Arms...

here she is:


Heckler & Koch P30LS variant 1 by rippspeed1, on Flickr

What was the total OTD on this gun? I am very interested in the P30 as well. Thanks, mg

[RippSpeed]

Originally Posted by emgee00

What was the total OTD on this gun? I am very interested in the P30 as well. Thanks, mg

Sorry brotha... I purchased this from a 3rd party; had Table Rock Arms do a single shot conversion and DROS'ed with StraightLine Tactical...

If your only looking for a regular P30v2 or v3 contact Ryan @ Table Rock Arms he can get those for you no problem. Mine on the other hand I had to hunt down... P30LS v1 is rare only 200 of these are here state side by mistake...

[emgee00]

Originally Posted by RippSpeed

Sorry brotha... I purchased this from a 3rd party; had Table Rock Arms do a single shot conversion and DROS'ed with StraightLine Tactical...

Thanks for the info

[Rocket Man]

Look what I just brought home from VA in Milpitas

[Excelsior]

Originally Posted by EBR Works

Installation of a substitute barrel that makes the gun dimensionally compliant (OAL must be at least 10.5" and barrel minimum of 6"). 0 round sled or blocked magazine. Mag lock device.

So for a Ruger Charger:

OAL: 19.25" check

Barrel: 10.00" check

Blocked magazine: simple DIY

Mag lock: Any good designs floating around?

So to legally purchase a Ruger Charger all I would need to do is have it shipped to a willing 07 FFL, have them install a mag lock of some kind, insert a blocked mag and that's that? Or is it forever an assault weapon because it's a pistol with the magazine outside of the grip? Please advise. Thanks.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by Excelsior

So for a Ruger Charger:

OAL: 19.25" check

Barrel: 10.00" check

Blocked magazine: simple DIY

Mag lock: Any good designs floating around?

So to legally purchase a Ruger Charger all I would need to do is have it shipped to a willing 07 FFL, have them install a mag lock of some kind, insert a blocked mag and that's that? Or is it forever an assault weapon because it's a pistol with the magazine outside of the grip? Please advise. Thanks.

Correct. Zero round magazine with a mag lock and you're good to go. It needs to have the mag lock installed OUTSIDE of CA because with out it it is an AW and unless your 07 has an AW permit he can't receive it.

You should talk to Ryan @ Table Rock up in OR. He is a 07 FFL that is more than happy to help out CA get the things they want. Look at the first post for his contact info.

[Rocket Man]

Ruger Charger = AW
hahahahahhahahahahahahahhaahhahahaahahaa
deep breath
hahahahahahahahahahahaahaha

Good God whats wrong with our state!!!!

[Excelsior]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

Correct. Zero round magazine with a mag lock and you're good to go. It needs to have the mag lock installed OUTSIDE of CA because with out it it is an AW and unless your 07 has an AW permit he can't receive it.

You should talk to Ryan @ Table Rock up in OR. He is a 07 FFL that is more than happy to help out CA get the things they want. Look at the first post for his contact info.

Let's say my cousin buys one in AZ. I visit and convert the thing myself (If I can figure out a mag lock.) Then he ships it to my FFL here in CA. How does my local FFL DROS the weapon given that it's not on the roster? Is there a "single shot pistol" button he can click on to DROS it?

[Cyc Wid It]

It's single shot exempt that you fill in.

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by Excelsior

Let's say my cousin buys one in AZ. I visit and convert the thing myself (If I can figure out a mag lock.) Then he ships it to my FFL here in CA. How does my local FFL DROS the weapon given that it's not on the roster? Is there a "single shot pistol" button he can click on to DROS it?

Yes, there is a choice in the DROS software for single shot. The gun must be fully compliant before entering California if going to an FFL 01. It also cannot have any AW features. Be sure to coordinate with the receiving FFL on these issues.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by Excelsior

Let's say my cousin buys one in AZ. I visit and convert the thing myself (If I can figure out a mag lock.) Then he ships it to my FFL here in CA. How does my local FFL DROS the weapon given that it's not on the roster? Is there a "single shot pistol" button he can click on to DROS it?

Your FFL would DROS it as a Single Shot Exempt Pistol. Be sure to use a 0 Round magazine to make it a Single Shot. Once it has been DROSed you can now put in a 10 Round magazine but you will still need to use the mag lock.

[anoldguy]

In the DROS Transaction Information section: Under Transaction Type it shows 'Curio/Relic/Olympic Pistol/Exempt'.
In the Revolver/Pistol Information section: Under Type it will show 'Single Shot'.
This is from my own.
M

[problemchild]

So who does Gen 4 glocks in Socal? Man that new Gen HK is the cats meow, very sweet. I too would like to know the cost on that. My HK with night sights and an expert trigger was over 1k

[Table Rock Arms]

Originally Posted by problemchild

So who does Gen 4 glocks in Socal? Man that new Gen HK is the cats meow, very sweet. I too would like to know the cost on that. My HK with night sights and an expert trigger was over 1k

What gen4 glock are you looking for?

My prices on the HK's are $930 for the p30 and $965 for the p30L. Prices are delivered to your FFL.

Ryan

[Homebrew2]

Shop:

CenCal Guns
(559) 827-5131
www.CenCalGuns.com

Hours: By appointment

Capacity: contact shop

Rate: contact shop

[Cyc Wid It]

Originally Posted by Homebrew2

Shop:

CenCal Guns
(559) 827-5131
www.CenCalGuns.com

Hours: By appointment

Capacity: contact shop

Rate: contact shop

Any additional information? There's not much on their website or facebook page either.

[Homebrew2]

Originally Posted by Cyc Wid It

Any additional information? There's not much on their website or facebook page either.

Not much, just reporting.
Per my email inquiry this weekend:
07 FFL, AR, AK, single shot off roster handgun friendly/capable.
Dealer transfers $80 (incl DROS), $65 for LE, military. PPT $35.
Does special orders.
Usually available evenings and weekends.
Very responsive to my email inquiries

[Stryprod]

What about a Springfield Armory custom shop gun? Would this have to go to OR than down to CA?

[Cyc Wid It]

If you're using Table Rock, yes.

[Stryprod]

Originally Posted by Cyc Wid It

If you're using Table Rock, yes.

Sorry, bad way to phrase my question.

Would it be possible to have a custom made Springfield 1911 sent to a CA FFL who would do the single shot exemption, or would it have to go through an out of state venue first and then to CA?

Or is this a question I would need to ask the SA custom shop?

[Cyc Wid It]

Originally Posted by Stryprod

Sorry, bad way to phrase my question.

Would it be possible to have a custom made Springfield 1911 sent to a CA FFL who would do the single shot exemption, or would it have to go through an out of state venue first and then to CA?

Or is this a question I would need to ask the SA custom shop?

It can go directly to a CA FFL for conversion, but SA might ask you for confirmation if it's off-roster. They're pretty easy to work with in general so I don't see this being an issue.

OP has also been edited with a link to bwiese's explanation of the matter.

[G1500]

Originally Posted by Stryprod

Sorry, bad way to phrase my question.

Would it be possible to have a custom made Springfield 1911 sent to a CA FFL who would do the single shot exemption, or would it have to go through an out of state venue first and then to CA?

Or is this a question I would need to ask the SA custom shop?

Is the custom shop doing the conversion? Otherwise it will need to go to an 07 FFL in CA, or sent to someone like Table Rock to do the conversion, then send it to your local FFL.

[bwiese]

Originally Posted by G1500

Is the custom shop doing the conversion? Otherwise it will need to go to an 07 FFL in CA, or sent to someone like Table Rock to do the conversion, then send it to your local FFL.

Please re-read my new thread.

That 'outside CA conversion' was the product of inital caution/conservatism.

If it involves a take-out / drop-in part and no machining of the gun itself, an 07FFL is not needed.

If the gun is starting from a frame and built up - i.e, single-shot pistol built up from a raw 1911 frame, Glock clone built up from a CCI RaceFrame, or AR /AK pistol built up from a pistol receiver, then the building FFL needs an 07.

However, a dude just dropping in maglocks+filler mags and long barrels in - or removing DA sear on revolver - can be a plain FFL within CA. The wording in 12133 removes control of 12125 regarding concerns about any 'unsafe handgun' import matters, esp since such guns can be imported for LEOs.

[Cyc Wid It]

Bill, does this translate to long guns as well? (adding BB's to split rifles, etc.)

[Stryprod]

Originally Posted by bwiese

If it involves a take-out / drop-in part and no machining of the gun itself, an 07FFL is not needed.

If the gun is starting from a frame and built up - i.e, single-shot pistol built up from a raw 1911 frame, Glock clone built up from a CCI RaceFrame, or AR /AK pistol built up from a pistol receiver, then the building FFL needs an 07.

However, a dude just dropping in maglocks+filler mags and long barrels in - or removing DA sear on revolver - can be a plain FFL within CA. The wording in 12133 removes control of 12125 regarding concerns about any 'unsafe handgun' import matters, esp since such guns can be imported for LEOs.

Exactly... I would be looking for the custom shop to make a normal fully functional 1911 just like they would for anyone else outside of CA. I would then want them to ship it to a CA FFL to drop in the barrel, et al for the legal conversion.

It sounds like this IS POSSIBLE assuming SA Custom Shop would feel comfortable sending it to a FFL in CA.

[rromeo]

It may get silly here. First, I'm in Virginia. If I wanted to sell a Jericho pistol to somebody in California, I can make it single shot and dimensionally compliant myself, then ship it to a CA FFL for transfer. Correct?
My plan is to use a 41ae (because I found some really cheap) barrel and add 2.5" to the length for OAL compliance. Now, if I have a 9mm magazine in the well, is that good enough? Or too close for comfort?

[tshong]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

Good news So. Cal. While reading a different thread this morning I found out about a gun shop in Ontario. The heart of the Inland Empire and pretty easy to get to from LA, Orange and San Diego counties.

The shop is called Cal-Arms. They are located at:

4451 Ontario Mills Parkway
Suite F
Ontario, CA. 91764
909-945-3113
www.cal-arms.com

Why I am I so excited about them you ask?

Well I want in and spoke with David Strait; the owner, today. They are a Type 07 FFL and will do Single Shot Conversion for people as requested. We didn't get in to any pricing but David assured me that he is very into customer service. And, I did get that feeling from him.

He also said that he would receive Single Shot Exempt guns for transfer if you found one at a different dealer. He is also up on the IntraFamliar transfer and understands that they are roster exempt and would be happy to receive all of your off-roster gifts from your parent/child/grandparent in other states. And, speaking about transfers. He has a very reasonable transfer fee. Only $65.00 and that includes the DROS fee.

David is former LEO and also runs a Private Investigation business.

When you go looking for his shop be sure to look for a business called "Spy Gear". They can't put up any signs at their location about guns so they also run this business from the same location.

OK, So Cal lets go get some guns.

I just physically walked into Cal Arms. They said they would not do conversions. However, they would be willing to handle transfer from an already converted pistol.

I think Cal Arms should be removed from the OP's list.

In my opinion, the list in the sticky should only include the 07FFL gunsmiths willing to do the conversion + Transfer. (Or we start another additional list for FFL's willing to handle SSE only)

[bwiese]

Originally Posted by tshong

I just physically walked into Cal Arms. They said they would not do conversions. However, they would be willing to handle transfer from an already converted pistol.

I think Cal Arms should be removed from the OP's list.

In my opinion, the list in the sticky should only include the 07FFL gunsmiths willing to do the conversion + Transfer. (Or we start another additional list for FFL's willing to handle SSE only)

Please read my recent posts in the 2ndA/Legal forum....

...an 07FFL is not required to do 'no-gunsmithing' (i.e. no welding, machining, etc.) single shot conversions. If the relevant conversion parts drop in essentially akin to cleaning & reassembly of a gun,

The original discussion about 07FFLs was early cautiousness, but the phrasing in the 12133PC about "The Chapter" makes this moot.

Any FFL with a stack of spare extended barrels and cut-down mag catches (or nylon screw/nut combos, etc.) can do single-shotting or single-action revolver conversion.

[bwiese]

Originally Posted by Cyc Wid It

Bill, does this translate to long guns as well? (adding BB's to split rifles, etc.)

BBs etc. should be OK - in fact I even think BATF may have addressed this in the past.

[rromeo]

Bill, what do you think of my idea about a magazine for a smaller caliber as a sled?

[johnny1290]

I'm from Texas and new to buying guns here in CA. This thread has helped me understand the issues involved in getting an masterpiece arms 9mm(mac clone) into CA.

I've found a couple places that were selling them, FWIW. Ammo Bros is one. They wanted $585 for a side cocker with scope rail and fake can. They had one or two MPAs for sale at the costa mesa gun show. ASI Arms (asiarms.net) had a mini for sale and had the same price for the side cocker as ammo bros.

I saw them for sale around $400 online so I thought 585 was a lot, but little did I realize how much work is involved to get one legally to CA.

Thanks guys

[2fast4u]

Anyone Deal with Cal-Arms in Ontario? How are they and there Prices?

[Youngearth]

OK, just so I am clear. I read that at the time of DROS it has to be in single shot configuration, got it.

My question is: Does a buyer have to actually take possession of the pistol and see for themself that it is in a single shot configuration? Can a dealer have it all configured back to "multi-shot" configuration ready for pick up when the 10 days are up.

[EBR Works]

My concern is that if the firearm is not in a single-shot state prior to your taking possession at the end of the DROS period, the transferring dealer could be in hot water with DOJ should an audit occur.

[Cyc Wid It]

Originally Posted by Youngearth

OK, just so I am clear. I read that at the time of DROS it has to be in single shot configuration, got it.

My question is: Does a buyer have to actually take possession of the pistol and see for themself that it is in a single shot configuration? Can a dealer have it all configured back to "multi-shot" configuration ready for pick up when the 10 days are up.

They shouldn't do that, and the gun must stay in single shot form during the entire waiting period - no rotating conversion parts through multiple guns.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by 2fast4u

Anyone Deal with Cal-Arms in Ontario? How are they and there Prices?

I haven't bought any guns from them yet. I did buy a scope the other day and they had it priced at the same level as J&G Sales.

They have a RIA 1911 .45 for $399. That's a pretty good price.