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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'. |
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#881
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I'm about to start buying silver again. One ounce generic silver rounds can be had for under $20 each shipped.
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____________________________________ Deterrence, Not Disarmament, Ended the Cold War. |
#882
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Just one more!
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California's politicians and unionized government employees are a crime gang that makes the Mexican drug cartels look like a Girl Scout Troop in comparison. |
#883
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PM's have a long slow painful fall to NORMAL prices . Best of luck |
#884
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Define "normal prices"...?
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#885
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IMO, that's when things are not moving consistently down. They should be level or rising slightly with inflation for a reasonable amount of time. What's reasonable is subjective though. Everyone's timeline and objectives are different.
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#887
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Q: Why gold and silver?
A: Obama's Former Chief Economist Calls For An End To US Dollar Reserve Status 'Nuf said... bv http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...reserve-status Obama's Former Chief Economist Calls For An End To US Dollar Reserve Status Quote:
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#889
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GB once held the world reserve currency status and they survived the change. G $ S were not a factor. The hype over this change in the future will probably give G $ S a nice bounce for sure someone will sell a sky falling.
BTW I got out of Silver ETFs in Nov and bough apple.com at prices between $415-425 before the spli....now about $700...and I think those silver ETFs are off 12-15%? |
#890
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Ignore what the hard core left does at your own risk... |
#891
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Sorry, I don't see any alarms bells in the "opinion" piece written by one hack quoting the "opinion" of another similar hack. Zerohedge has an agenda. Their koolaid is as strong as any. |
#893
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I disagree...I think once interest rates begin to rise PM's will lose value.
The Federal Reserve suggests they will begin raising interest rates in 2015. This does not bode well for PM's. I see Gold trading in the $800 range at a 2.5% Fed Funds Rate and as low as $450-$500 if/when Fed rate reaches the 5% level. Unless there is a terrible decline in the value of the dollar. I don't see PM's as an investment that will outperform the market. That said I also think that the market goes lower as investors take profits and reinvest in higher fixed interest assets. That's not to say that you can't make money on the way down |
#894
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#895
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$1,248 ? You can do better than that. Bought a used Caddy last month so I will have to prolong a purchase or two.
I will look good cruising in retirement trying to dig up da Gold lost in boating accidents. Sleep well my fellow stackers. |
#898
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Like everything coming from zerohedge, complete junk. I can make almost any two charts fit if I can control scales and time frame. It is just stupid bunk for the uneducated masses.
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#899
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I think we can all agree 1971 was a critical year. Hows this chart instead? You can project our current year in a downward trend obviously while debt has continued to soar.
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All systems fail |
#900
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#901
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These are just google image charts I've found to be accurate and posted in order to spark discussion about some articles I've read elsewhere including today at http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014...will-die.html# Smashycrashy posted a link earlier to a Kitco chart. So here's Kitco's take on it last year. http://www.kitco.com/ind/Radomski/20...-Go-Again.html Although it seems since then there has been a sharp disconnect in debt vs. gold and I'm wondering why. I know the world is currently leaning hard on the dollar, but many of us know the dollar can not, and will not, last forever and many countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Russia,etc) are looking to ween off the petrodollar... hence the current global conflicts with direct US involvement.
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All systems fail Last edited by Twinkies; 09-10-2014 at 8:20 PM.. Reason: more... |
#902
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I think you are seeing correlation where you want to.. doesn't look correlated to me (this was a chart showing how gold and silver were totally set to hit even higher highs... and it proceeded to drops like a stone)
It's not fundamental valuation.. it's guesswork. People talk about gold for the simple fact that it is exactly like having a conversation about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. There is no way to know and everyone will come up with their own (pulled out of their ***) metric. Gold value, imho, is how much it costs to get it out of the ground (this isn't the BS "all-in" cash costs that public miners try to push). There isn't a supply constraint anywhere (gold supply increases pretty much every year, which makes sense as technology advances it makes it easier to find and mine things). Gold is just a silly metal that sits there. If that is your thing, have at it. But don't call it an investment. Quote:
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#904
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The chart you posted is a year old, yes, projecting higher gold and silver that did not materialize. THAT is what I wanted to talk about.. something seems off.. whether people are putting more money into crypto-currencies instead of gold, or global conflicts and belief in the dollar as a reserve is driving gold down, or what other factors that you might call guesswork?
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All systems fail Last edited by Twinkies; 09-10-2014 at 8:58 PM.. Reason: more |
#905
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If I have gold I have to convert it into paper fibers or find someone willing to trade whatever good or service they have/do for it. The paper fibers are infinitely more useful. Buying gold is SPECULATING that you will be able to trade it for more paper fibers in the future OR that paper fibers won't even exist. Where a mix of stocks and bonds has shown over the long haul that they will collect more and more paper fibers than a silly metal that just sits there and does nothing. One is speculating, the other is investing. I'm an investor I know where I'd put my money... Stocks and bonds work at collecting more and more dollars every day, gold doesn't work it just sits there. Quote:
2) First time I've ever heard someone mention global conflicts (or the belief that dollar losing reserve status) as something that would drive the price down... |
#906
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For people who are interested in gold: Don't buy gold as an investment, buy gold as a potential insurance policy. In the SHTF scenario gold may not have immediate value as food, water, shelter and security will be everything. But later as trade emerges gold/silver will have value for trading purposes. Try that with paper money. The value of gold is currently manipulated by the Government. They tend to keep the value low in order to ensure that people buy monetary instruments. Gold may or may not be useful in our lifetimes, but paper money is on a collision course with reality. The question is, if gold has so little value why does nearly every Government keep it in reserve. And why is Germany asking for their reserves (which we have been holding) back from us?
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C'mon man, shouldn't we ban Democracks from Cal-Guns? Or at least send them to re-education camps. |
#907
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THIS
Exactly correct.
My personal "SHTF" occured in 09. Like many I was unemployed, out of debt thank goodness, but had no income. I couldn't tap my retirement since I wasn't of age and didn't want to pay the penalty. The next couple of years kind of sucked. We had a nice boost winter / spring 2011. I do recall that my cash flow situation sucked wind and though my asset base was strong I needed some equipment to convert raw land into lease - able / rent - able farm land. Thank goodness for that "bump" in silver before the spring thaw; I was able to sell a bunch, buy the equipment and create livable income off the farm land. I thus can't knock Silver / Gold as an investment. I sold nearly 400 oz of silver between Feb/March that year and maybe 10 oz of gold. It wasn't all I had but it was close. It didn't include my pre 64 coins that are for SHTF. It was enough for an old tractor, front end loader, rear scraper, disk and trailer to get them to my property. Thanks to that I don't have to work today, and I can thank my Dad for making me buy that stuff in the 80's. There is no way for me to slam "investing" in gold and silver. I live the proof that they can be a real tangible asset at the worst time and can make all of the difference in the world. Quote:
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#908
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Glad your pops taught you well. Sent from my SP727 using Tapatalk |
#909
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This thread is in the "survival and prep" forum and part of surviving what's ahead is getting your money out of the dollar and into bullion, bullets, bitcoin and whatever people might find valuable. That doesn't mean that these items are sure thing investments guaranteeing 30% returns in three years. They are definitely insurance policies. And as ScottsBad said, PM prices are already manipulated.
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All systems fail |
#910
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I agree
You are correct in that I don't have a big belief in buying futures contracts or even ETFs even though my IRA has held ETFs for PMs in the past. I don't like going on forums and pumping investments.
I do recommend people have PMs for SHTF. I also am not afraid to say people ought to buy a few ounces of silver here and their, gold when they can etc. when I got my first pay checks in the 80's I bought 5 oz every pay day. I just wish I hadn't got mad at the retailer for refusing to give me a break when I splurged for 20. |
#911
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I wrote in this thread long ago, there is nothing wrong with owning some PM's. But those promoting them as the ultimate solution are just retailers. And those gobbling up the pitch are quite myopic. IMO.
And twink, you don't like fiat but bitcoin is cool.... Seriously? |
#912
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As an insurance policy I'd say it is a poor one, if the SHTF for it to pay off you'd be much better off having useful objects rather than one that just sits there. The most likely event is that you grow old and die and the world doesn't end. If you have that avenue covered (i.e. plenty of retirement savings in broad, low cost index funds) and want to plan for the world ending.. great. But if you don't have the most likely event covered and are putting money into the least likely event.. i'd say you aren't being very smart about your money. As to why central banks keep gold in reserve.. they can buy gold to get more of their currency in circulation and sell gold to firm up their currency without directly targeting any one currency. It is a currency neutral way of implementing monetary policy. Quote:
Last edited by smashycrashy; 09-12-2014 at 7:46 AM.. |
#913
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Investment advisors and others in the business are not prepared to deal with anything but normal business cycles. They can not and will not help you plan for a SHTF type scenario. You have to plan for those possibilities yourself. If you talk to investment advisors they will tell you that physical gold is ridiculous. They do this for two reasons. One, they know the history of gold is fraught with ups and downs. As a long term investment this can be problematic, they are right about that. Two, they cannot make any money directing part of your investment into physical gold or silver as insurance. So, PMs are a good insurance policy and may turn out to be a good investment, but don't count on PMs as an investment. One thing about PMs is that their value will never go to zero, find a stock that can guarantee you that. Bitcoin is interesting as a concept, the Gov. would love to shut down that type of currency permanently and that makes it a bigger risk than it is already. IF you have money burning a hole in your pocket, money that you would otherwise take to Vegas, then Bitcoin type trading might be for you. The Gov. hates anything they cannot control, monitor, and ultimately tax or seize easily. If you ever get an investment advisor who thinks that PMs are worthless, find someone else who has a better perspective. Investment advisors don't like to talk about dollar crashes, ruinous inflation or deflation, Gov. seizure, martial law, or any of the other possible scenarios that might take the monetary system down because, "It is just too big to deal with." That's a quote from an advisor from a major investment house.
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C'mon man, shouldn't we ban Democracks from Cal-Guns? Or at least send them to re-education camps. Last edited by ScottsBad; 09-12-2014 at 8:24 AM.. |
#914
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C'mon man, shouldn't we ban Democracks from Cal-Guns? Or at least send them to re-education camps. Last edited by ScottsBad; 09-12-2014 at 9:53 AM.. |
#915
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TL;DR
We are in agreement it's not an investment. We disagree on how good of an insurance policy it is. That insurance policy would read "this policy will pay out if the world ends, but not right away like only if society makes a comeback" I'd sell that policy all day long.. And sure would never buy it. |
#916
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Scotts, forgive me but you're all over the place. Since this is a preppers forum, my comments about and bone of contention with doomsday preachers like zerohedge are on point. None of the other evil doers you cite are calling for the end of the world as we know it.
That's all I have for you. Do what you need to sleep at night. Last edited by therealnickb; 09-12-2014 at 12:36 PM.. |
#917
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On the downside, it is completely dependent on the electrical grid being up and running (for the foreseeable future). Once all 21 million bitcoins are "mined", the incentive to "process" transactions will likely incur a fee. Mt Gox incidents can take place, but wallets and security will only improve. Whether bitcoin, bullets, or bullion will be king really depends on how severe the collapse of the dollar plays out. Quote:
While I agree with everything else you have posted on this page, I have to point out the Bitcoin is gaining momentum in acceptance. You can buy a Tesla in bitcoin, Overstock.com, real estate is now being purchased in the $millions with bitcoin. Parallax Tactical here in SD takes Bitcoin. Paypal is in the works with Coinbase to bring Bitcoin to Ebay. That will be HUGE. However I do think it will be somewhat volatile until enough people switch over to it, or enough businesses allow their payroll to direct deposit into bitcoin wallets. Of course, something better than bitcoin may materialize, who knows.
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All systems fail |
#920
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Apples and oranges? no, that's more like daffodils and sledgehammers. Its like trying to convince a teenager they should put down the Sprite and Mountain Dew and maybe eat some vegetables before them, their friends, and whole US contracts type 2 diabetes. But teenagers really like sugar, and they know better than you anyway. alllllrighty then.
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All systems fail |
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