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  #81  
Old 01-01-2018, 2:49 PM
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Seems we're "deemed" if we do and "not deemed" if we don't.


That's got to be worth a giggle or two
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  #82  
Old 01-01-2018, 3:47 PM
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Did you notice the date on the renewal notice was dated 11-1-2017 but ours was postmarked 12-15-17. Hummmm
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  #83  
Old 01-02-2018, 8:18 AM
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Yeah sent my renewal in 11/15/17 and still havent received it back. Got the kick back on the high capacity magazine permit good cause. Didn't have will not endanger the public. What a crock of ****.
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  #84  
Old 01-02-2018, 8:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
Yeah sent my renewal in 11/15/17 and still havent received it back. Got the kick back on the high capacity magazine permit good cause. Didn't have will not endanger the public. What a crock of ****.
How long have you had your Hi-Cap Permit prior to its denial??
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  #85  
Old 01-02-2018, 12:56 PM
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Just got my renewal today. They included the Hi Cap permit. The just kicked back my good cause cause it did not say it wouldn't endanger the public. I did not receive an ammunition vendors license like UG Imports
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  #86  
Old 01-02-2018, 1:04 PM
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They asked for my large cap app to have the corrected "public endangerment" verbiage last year so I already had it changed when it was sent in this year. Still haven't received my renewal back yet, although I did receive a small package with the new labels so who knows what's going on at this point...
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  #87  
Old 01-02-2018, 2:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
Just got my renewal today. They included the Hi Cap permit. The just kicked back my good cause cause it did not say it wouldn't endanger the public. I did not receive an ammunition vendors license like UG Imports
I guess you can't sell ammo
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  #88  
Old 01-02-2018, 2:45 PM
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Why are FFLs worrying about getting a ammo vender permit?
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  #89  
Old 01-02-2018, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootsocal_dave View Post
Why are FFLs worrying about getting a ammo vender permit?
Mostly they are not, but now the question is why the CA DOJ is even sending them if it's not required per any regulations they haven't actually released yet.. and more curiously why did I get one and OC Armory didn't..

While the PC may say some words that sounds like we don't need it... we don't know if that is true.

While regulations aren't the PC it didn't stop DOJ from calling my VEPR-12 an AW.
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  #90  
Old 01-02-2018, 2:54 PM
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I'm not. It's only the non-FFL's (like hardware stores) that sell ammo that need COE's and need the "Permit". FFL's are already permitted to sell ammo cause they have a COE.
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  #91  
Old 01-02-2018, 2:56 PM
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Or, maybe DOJ is "permitting" COE business before they "permit" FFL's???
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  #92  
Old 01-02-2018, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Or, maybe DOJ is "permitting" COE business before they "permit" FFL's???
Dunno why I got the permit and OC Armory didn't though. We're both FFLs...
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  #93  
Old 01-02-2018, 3:22 PM
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I dont know why you would at all lol, thats what Im getting at.
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  #94  
Old 01-02-2018, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootsocal_dave View Post
I dont know why you would at all lol, thats what Im getting at.
My only *guess* is that when the regulations come out they are going to say FFLs need an ammo vending license and that the law is really saying that you just didn't have to apply for it separately. I see no other reason to provide it.
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  #95  
Old 01-02-2018, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
Dunno why I got the permit and OC Armory didn't though. We're both FFLs...
Don’t know why I got my new CFD, Mag permit, ammo license but no new gun tags.

I wanted to sell my tags to you guys after ordering 10,000
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  #96  
Old 01-02-2018, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Don’t know why I got my new CFD, Mag permit, ammo license but no new gun tags.

I wanted to sell my tags to you guys after ordering 10,000
I'll take it! Pm inbound

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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  #97  
Old 01-02-2018, 6:29 PM
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Default Ammo Sales / Transfer on 1/1/2018

ooooh i only got...10 tags? lol...and somehow my magazine permit was ‘never processed’ now i gotta resend it


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  #98  
Old 01-04-2018, 3:05 PM
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*bump* edited my original post with answers from CA DOJ. At least now with something concrete I know what we can support in 2018 and can draft up a process for our customers.
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  #99  
Old 01-04-2018, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
Q. When processing internet transfers of ammunition for customers what are the fee limits?
$10 per transaction, per PC 30364
Leginfo does not seem to have that CA PC yet.

So it is limit to $10 for ANY amount of ammo? case? truck load?
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  #100  
Old 01-04-2018, 5:25 PM
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I literally just copy pasted what I had received. I did not ask for further clarification.

Reference to 30364 here:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01520160SB1235
Quote:
30364. (a) The sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if an ammunition vendor in this state initially receives the ammunition and processes the transfer in compliance with this article, Article 3 (commencing with Section 30345), and Article 4 (commencing with Section 30355). An ammunition vendor is required to promptly and properly process those transactions. An ammunition vendor may charge a fee to process the transfer not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per transaction. An ammunition vendor is not required to house ammunition orders longer than 30 days.
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Last edited by ugimports; 01-04-2018 at 5:26 PM.. Reason: added 30364
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  #101  
Old 01-04-2018, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Leginfo does not seem to have that CA PC yet.

So it is limit to $10 for ANY amount of ammo? case? truck load?
Penal Code section 30364 said, "An ammunition vendor may charge a fee to process the transfer not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per transaction." Penal Code section 30364 was part of SB1235, which was signed into law by Governor Brown. However, Prop 63 superseded SB1235.

The relevant law is Penal Code section 30312: "The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title."

11 CCR 4263, which became effective January 2nd, says:
In addition to any applicable Department of Justice fee, an ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser a fee(s) for processing the sale of ammunition between two private parties as follows:
(a) If the purchaser will be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the fee shall not exceed five dollars ($5).
(b) If the purchaser will not be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the vendor may charge an additional storage fee as agreed upon with the purchaser prior to the vendor receiving the ammunition.
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  #102  
Old 01-04-2018, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I heard back from CA DOJ (in writing) and received the following info:
Q. When processing internet transfers of ammunition for customers what are the fee limits?
$10 per transaction, per PC 30364
Really? I thought it said FFLs fees were up to them. Sonsomebody orders 100,000 rounds on a palet and I have to process it for $10?
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  #103  
Old 01-04-2018, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I literally just copy pasted what I had received. I did not ask for further clarification.

Reference to 30364 here:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01520160SB1235
Not trying to argue with you on it. Just seems wrong. Inappreciate you sharing and helping everyone. Side note spoke with BOE (or state tax and fee Dept) or whatever they're calling themselves these days and he indicated yes the ammo will be taxable and they will be publishing a ruling shortly.
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  #104  
Old 01-04-2018, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ View Post
(a) If the purchaser will be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the fee shall not exceed five dollars ($5).
(b) If the purchaser will not be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the vendor may charge an additional storage fee as agreed upon with the purchaser prior to the vendor receiving the ammunition.[/INDENT]
So if they're there when UPS shows up it's $5.00 if they're not there we can charge whatever storage fee we want?

Just throwing this out there. Under the financial code that regulates pawn shops we can charge storage fees based on cubic feet. Maybe everyone should adopt your storage policy based on cubic feet not price or round count.
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  #105  
Old 01-04-2018, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
So if they're there when UPS shows up it's $5.00 if they're not there we can charge whatever storage fee we want?

Just throwing this out there. Under the financial code that regulates pawn shops we can charge storage fees based on cubic feet. Maybe everyone should adopt your storage policy based on cubic feet not price or round count.
Not really on the UPS delivery since the price must be agreed upon PRIOR to delivery.

In short, Joe and Jim walk in together to trasnsfer ammo, it’s 5 bucks

Not much “handling” at all

It seems this will all be handled like a CA PPT as above and then like a dealer transfer for actuall shipments where an FFL can set their own price over the 5 bucks
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  #106  
Old 01-04-2018, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
So if they're there when UPS shows up it's $5.00 if they're not there we can charge whatever storage fee we want?

Just throwing this out there. Under the financial code that regulates pawn shops we can charge storage fees based on cubic feet. Maybe everyone should adopt your storage policy based on cubic feet not price or round count.
Hmm...I like the idea of charging based on space taken up. Since that's really the issue for us (limited space).
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  #107  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:45 AM
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Since people might not know the text of the ammunition vendor regulations.

California Code of Regulations
Title 11. Law.
Division 5. Firearm Regulations.
Chapter 10. Ammunition.

11 CCR §4260. Ammunition Vendor License Applications
(a) Applicants for an initial ammunition vendor license must complete and submit Department of Justice form BOF 1021 (Rev. 07/2017), which is hereby incorporated by reference. The application must be submitted with the fee specified in section 4261 and a copy of the following:
(1) Any regulatory or business license required by local government.
(2) Valid seller’s permit issued by the State Board of Equalization.
(3) Federal Firearms License if the applicant is federally licensed.
(4) Certificate of Eligibility.

(b) Applicants for renewal of an ammunition vendor license must complete and submit Department of Justice form BOF/CAV-0012 (Rev. 07/2017), which is hereby incorporated by reference, with the fee specified in section 4261.

(c) A firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Penal Code sections 26700 to 26915 is automatically deemed a licensed ammunition vendor pursuant to Penal Code section 30385(d) and is not required to submit an application for an ammunition vendor license.

11 CCR §4261. Ammunition Vendor License Application Fee and Term Length
(a) The annual application fee for an ammunition vendor license (initial and renewal) is $198 per location if the vendor is not on the Centralized List of Firearm Dealers.

(b) The term of an ammunition vendor license is from January 1 through December 31, regardless of the date the initial license is issued.

(c) Ammunition vendors must submit to the Department of Justice, a copy of renewals of the licenses specified in section 4260, within 30 days of the license’s expiration. Failure to do so will invalidate the ammunition vendor license until a copy of the renewed license is received by the Department of Justice.

(d) Ammunition vendor licenses will be automatically renewed for vendors who maintain active status on the Centralized List of Firearms Dealers.

11 CCR §4262. Display of Ammunition
Pursuant to Penal Code section 30350, ammunition shall not be displayed for sale or transfer in a manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser or transferee without the assistance of the vendor or an employee of the vendor. Ammunition displayed in a shopping area open to the public is not considered “accessible” provided it is in a locked container
e.g. display case, cabinet, cage).

11 CCR §4263. Vendor Fee for Processing a Private Party (non-vendor) Ammunition Sale

In addition to any applicable Department of Justice fee, an ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser a fee(s) for processing the sale of ammunition between two private parties as follows:

(a) If the purchaser will be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the fee shall not exceed five dollars ($5).

(b) If the purchaser will not be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the vendor may charge an additional storage fee as agreed upon with the purchaser prior to the vendor receiving the ammunition.

11 CCR §4264. Suspension and Forfeiture of Ammunition Vendor’s License
(a) An ammunition vendor’s license may be suspended for a period of up to six months for a violation of these regulations.

(b) An ammunition vendor’s license may be forfeited for a breach of any of the prohibitions and requirements in Penal Code sections 30300 through 30365.

(c) All hearings related to a suspension or forfeiture shall be conducted in accordance with Government Code section 11500 et. seq.

(d) An ammunition vendor whose license is forfeited may not re-apply for a license earlier than one year from the effective date of the forfeiture.
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  #108  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Just throwing this out there. Under the financial code that regulates pawn shops we can charge storage fees based on cubic feet. Maybe everyone should adopt your storage policy based on cubic feet not price or round count.
Financial Code 21200.6:
(a) In addition to other allowed charges, at the time property is redeemed or a replacement loan is issued pursuant to Section 21201.5, the pawnbroker may collect a handling and storage charge for pawned articles. The maximum amount that may be charged pursuant to this section is in accordance with the following schedule:
(1) One dollar ($1) for any article that can be contained within one cubic foot.
(2) Five dollars ($5) for any article that cannot be contained within one cubic foot but can be contained within three cubic feet.
(3) Ten dollars ($10) for any article that cannot be contained within three cubic feet but can be contained within six cubic feet.
(4) Twenty dollars ($20) for any article that cannot be contained within six cubic feet and one dollar ($1) for each additional cubic foot in excess of six cubic feet.
(b) For purposes of this section, cubic feet shall be determined by multiplying the width of an article, at its greatest width, by the depth of an article, at its greatest depth, by the height of an article, at its greatest height.
Of course, a law about pawnbrokers is not necessarily binding on storage fees for ammunition.
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  #109  
Old 01-05-2018, 12:03 PM
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So after 30 days we can consider the ammunition abandoned?
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  #110  
Old 01-05-2018, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by shootsocal_dave View Post
So after 30 days we can consider the ammunition abandoned?
No.

Everyone keeps quoting Penal Code section 30364 from SB1235, which is NOT law. Prop 63 superseded most of SB1235. So "An ammunition vendor is not required to house ammunition orders longer than 30 days" is NOT law.
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Old 01-05-2018, 1:14 PM
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I suspect those saying we'll have to tax internet ammo transfers are going to be proven right, but if I'm the retailer why am I not making 10% or so on the sale? I suppose I could try that via a storage fee but I'd have a lot of unhappy ex-customers if I added that on too.
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Old 01-05-2018, 1:19 PM
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Received my CFD renewal today dated 12-21-17 along with an Ammunition Vendor License and Large Cap Mag permit with valid dates of Jan 1, 2018 - Dec 31, 2018.
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  #113  
Old 01-05-2018, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleT View Post
Received my CFD renewal today dated 12-21-17 along with an Ammunition Vendor License and Large Cap Mag permit with valid dates of Jan 1, 2018 - Dec 31, 2018.
Received the same today as well as new tags.
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  #114  
Old 01-05-2018, 2:17 PM
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Sounds like I'm just as confused as everyone else. I don't understand which law or set of rules/laws we are supposed to follow:

The ammo dealer regulations that were approved on 1/3/18 states that per PC 30312 dealers can charge $5 for private party transactions that were immediately delivered and makes no mention of vendor transfers.

Now, PC 30312 is repealed from SB-1235. In its place, PC 30364 says $10 for vendor sales and PC 30366 says $10 for PPTs.

So what do you follow?

Last edited by SRedmon; 01-05-2018 at 2:23 PM..
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  #115  
Old 01-05-2018, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRedmon View Post
The ammo dealer regulations that were approved on 1/3/18 states that per PC 30312 dealers can charge $5 for private party transactions that were immediately delivered and makes no mention of vendor transfers.

Now, PC 30312 is repealed from SB-1235. In its place, PC 30364 says $10 for vendor sales and PC 30366 says $10 for PPTs.

So what do you follow?
PC30312 is law. PC30312 was created by Prop 63. PC30364 is not law. PC30364 was part of SB1235 and said it would not be law if Prop 63 passed.
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  #116  
Old 01-05-2018, 3:45 PM
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Just got my Ammo, Large Cap and CFD Letter back
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  #117  
Old 01-05-2018, 4:48 PM
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already had a couple people gripe that i had to collect sales tax on transfers-it’s not like i get to keep the @&!? money jeez lol


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  #118  
Old 01-05-2018, 7:45 PM
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[QUOTE=ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ;21116399]Since people might not know the text of the ammunition vendor regulations.

I think you posted the DOJ's proposed text.
The OAL adopted rules differ just a bit:
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...opted-text.pdf

FINAL TEXT OF REGULATIONS
California Code of Regulations
Title 11, Division 5
Chapter 10. Ammunition

§ 4260. Ammunition Vendor License Applications
(a) Applicants for an initial ammunition vendor license must complete and submit Department
of Justice Ammunition Vendor License (Non-Firearms Dealer), form BOF 1021 (Orig. 01/2018),
which is hereby incorporated by reference. The application must be submitted with the fee
specified in section 4261 and a copy of the following:
(1) Any regulatory or business license required by local government.
(2) Valid seller’s permit issued by the California Department of Tax and Fee
Administration.
(3) Federal Firearms License if the applicant is federally licensed.
(4) Certificate of Eligibility pursuant to Penal Code section 26710.
(b) Applicants for renewal of an ammunition vendor license must complete and submit
Department of Justice Ammunition Vendor License Renewal Fee Transmittal, form BOF/CAV0012
(Orig. 01/2018), which is hereby incorporated by reference, with the fee specified in
section 4261.
(c) A firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Penal Code sections 26700 to 26915 is automatically
deemed a licensed ammunition vendor pursuant to Penal Code section 30385
(d) and is not
required to submit an application for an ammunition vendor license.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 30385 and 30395, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 26700, 30385, and 30395, Penal
Code.

§ 4261. Ammunition Vendor License Application Fee and Term Length
(a) The annual application fee for an ammunition vendor license (initial and renewal) is $198
per location if the vendor is not on the Centralized List of Firearm Dealers.
(b) The term of an ammunition vendor license is one year from the date of issuance.
(c) Ammunition vendors must submit to the Department of Justice, a copy of renewals of the
licenses specified in section 4260, within 30 days of the license’s expiration. Failure to do so will
invalidate the ammunition vendor license until a copy of the renewed license is received by the
Department of Justice.
(d) Ammunition vendor licenses will be automatically renewed for vendors who maintain
active status on the Centralized List of Firearms Dealers.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 30385, 30390, and 30395, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 30385, 30390, and
30395, Penal Code.

§ 4262. Display of Ammunition
Pursuant to Penal Code section 30350, ammunition shall not be displayed for sale or transfer in a
manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser or transferee without the
assistance of the vendor or an employee of the vendor. Ammunition displayed in a shopping area
open to the public is not considered “accessible” provided it is in a locked container (e.g. display
case, cabinet, cage).
Note: Authority cited: Sections 30347, 30385 and 30350, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 30347 and 30350, Penal
Code.

§ 4263. Vendor Fee for Processing a Private Party (non-vendor) Ammunition Sale
In addition to any applicable Department of Justice fee, an ammunition vendor may charge the
purchaser a fee(s) for processing the sale of ammunition between two private parties as follows:
(a) If the purchaser will be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the fee shall not
exceed five dollars ($5).

(b) If the purchaser will not be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the vendor
may charge an additional storage fee as agreed upon with the purchaser prior to the vendor
receiving the ammunition.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 30312 and 30385, Penal Code. Reference: Section 30312, Penal Code.

§ 4264. Suspension and Forfeiture of Ammunition Vendor’s License
(a) An ammunition vendor’s license may be suspended for a period of up to six months for a
violation of these regulations.
(b) An ammunition vendor’s license may be forfeited for a breach of any of the prohibitions
and requirements in Penal Code sections 30300 through 30365.
(c) All hearings related to a suspension or forfeiture shall be conducted in accordance with
Government Code section 11500 et. seq.
(d) An ammunition vendor whose license is forfeited may not re-apply for a license earlier
than one year from the effective date of the forfeiture.
Note: Authority cited: Sections 30385 and 30395, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 30300, 30305, 30306, 30312,
30314, 30342, 30345, 30347, 30348, 30350, 30352, 30355, 30357, 30360, 30362, 30363, 30365, and 30395, Penal
Code.

Last edited by carrywisely_ca; 01-05-2018 at 7:48 PM.. Reason: added link to text pdf
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  #119  
Old 01-05-2018, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ View Post
PC30312 is law. PC30312 was created by Prop 63. PC30364 is not law. PC30364 was part of SB1235 and said it would not be law if Prop 63 passed.
Got it.

So there is no law on the transfer fee for internet vendor sales, and the law for PPT is $5 if delivered immediately.
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  #120  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRedmon View Post
Got it.

So there is no law on the transfer fee for internet vendor sales, and the law for PPT is $5 if delivered immediately.
Yes, I believe that is correct.
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