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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun! |
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#1
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Original "issue" bayonets and the Swiss Rifle.
Matching Bayonets.
The chances of an existing, original issue bayonet to the original rifle is slim to none. As proven by the approximate 2,000 Bayonets that I assisted Graf's having imported, Bayonets were stocked by Bern and later, a number of Armouries, all without serial numbers. When an issue bayonet was damaged or lost, a new bayonet was issued to that "in-service" soldier's rifle with that rifle's serial number. The chances of it having remained with the original rifle are both remote and absolutely unprovable. As it was entirely impractical and unneccessary and those issued bayonets were not logged in a permanent register in Bern............. However.......... Sad to say that a number of importers bringing in those same bayonets released by Bern and three other Armouries in 2016, factually re-numbered some (or a lot) of them to match in-stock k31s and/or G11s.......... and, no..... I'm not going to disclose my sources. They'd most likely never communicate with me again. It is what it is, Gents.
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#2
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Micthells lives!!!
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Beans and Bullets 2x SKS Trench Art $480 & $500 https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...8#post28101198 |
#3
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Is that one of them?? I actually don't recognize that one.
P
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#4
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The famous fakers of force matched K98 Mausers and advertised them as "original"
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C&R nut. |
#6
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I know Bob Simpson personally, and I know that neither he nor his people would ever do anything like that. Bob personally goes to Switzerland and Germany and hand selects ALL of his rifles and accessories.
P
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#7
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Quote:
It had to have been at lease several dozen that I've seen for sale (not just on Simpsons site), were all those messed with? Would they have been stamped to match the rifle in Switzerland? Here in the US by the importer? What do you mean by "slim to none"? Would that roughly be 1 in a million? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 1,000? You have a unique insight into these and I'm really curious what you think |
#8
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Has anyone compared the stampings of a recent bayonet and matched gun versus a period issued and correct bayonet to see if they look the same? We only have allegations here, no actual proof as of yet.
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#9
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I've already answered you. Bob Simpson personally seeks out and hand selects his inventories.
As for the rest of it, I've already said what I know. Am I going to give you sources because you're curious? Absolutely not. The information is what I've been given. You may believe what you wish, or research the subject for yourself, but first ask yourself how rifles that old and in Armouries for that long could be expected to be accompanied by the original issue bayonets. Nothing further to say on this subject unless I'm asked to delete the post. And I'm NOT Latigo. I'm his father, Pierre St.Marie.
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#10
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In retrospect, I probably should at least give you the location of my source.
A long time friend of mine at RUAG in Bern, Switzerland.
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#11
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I wanted to make it clear that I'm not accusing anybody of faking anything. I'm just trying to reconcile two things:
#1 is the statement about matching bayonets: "Matching Bayonets. The chances of an existing, original issue bayonet to the original rifle is slim to none" #2 is the fact that at least dozens of them have been sold within the last few years (that I've personally seen for sale) that had matching bayonets In my mind there is a disconnect between "slim to none" vs dozens sold. If the ones sold are legit, than maybe it's "slim to none" to find them matching in 2016, because they've been bought up years earlier? |
#12
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Jimja, I wasn't given particulars or numbers. Because I'd seen this question a number of times before on Swiss rifle forums here, in Germany and in Switzerland, I asked about it. "Slim to none" was his term, not mine.
I have no idea about numbers, but "dozens" doesn't seem to be a lot compared to total imports. I do have those figures from "Guisan", but it was three years ago, before his death, and it's somewhere within many hundreds of emails between us. My short term memory is rather bad now, but I'll see if I can find that email with the G11 and k31 imports as of that time. As I said, that was about 3 years ago, so the numbers have increased for sure. I'll see what I can find. P
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#13
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I have a matching bayonet Swiss K11 purchased directly from Switzerland via Germany. It unusual but not unheard of. I believe the P64 designates this one was sold out of inventory to the soldier.
Last edited by capt14k; 12-08-2017 at 3:54 AM.. |
#14
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Beautiful!! A truly great find.
P
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#15
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Thank you. The price was right too. My friend in Germany found it and I got lucky on the bid. Even with the extra cost of importing I think I'm still in it for below market value.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk |
#16
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You bid on a German site. Good schtuff.
Not many of us monitor the German and Swiss auction sites. Having a contact there is very important. P
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#17
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Reminds me of trying to get about 6 Russian SKS dust covers back to their mathching rifles.
Excellent find!
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Beans and Bullets 2x SKS Trench Art $480 & $500 https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...8#post28101198 |
#18
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Original "issue" bayonets and the Swiss Rifle.
Quote:
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Last edited by capt14k; 12-08-2017 at 12:16 PM.. |
#19
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Cool beans, Cap.
Got photos?
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#20
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I've posted a couple before, but here is a couple shots of each of them. All of them are all matching except the stock on the 1922 Brazilian.
1935 Peruvian Short 7.65mm Mauser 1922 Brazilian Carbine 7mm Mauser 1935 Brazilian Long 7mm Mauser 1935 Chilean Carbine 7mm Mauser Last edited by capt14k; 12-08-2017 at 4:23 PM.. |
#21
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Here is the rest and probably the best of the group. I've only seen one Uruguayan for sale here which is the vz.37 Simpson's currently has for $3,700. If it was $1,200 less I would probably buy it. 1909 Peruvians I've seen a few but all have had mismatched bolts. Hungarian 48.M if available is usually the Sniper version. I can't recall a single non sniper for sale here, but they are quite common there.
1908 Uruguayan Long 7mm Mauser 1909 Peruvian Long 7mm Mauser 1952 Hungarian 48.M 7.62x54R Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Last edited by capt14k; 12-08-2017 at 4:27 PM.. |
#24
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Yes and no. You need a friend and licensed dealer on the other side. Ideally a friend who is a licensed dealer. Also a licensed importer here. Then you need to buy them, store them, get ATF import license, in the case of Germany BAFA export license, then ship them to airport, importer picks them up, marks them (important to get importer who is discrete and has laser), and then ships them to you if you have FLL03 or your FFL01. Cost for a single rifle about $500. Cost for 8 rifles about $2,000. Also takes over a year. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
#25
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Very nice rifles, Cap............. and yes, Cap is right.
I've brought in a lot of Swiss rifles in the past 20 years, and you have to weigh import costs against rifle values. We had a great importer here in Montana for a long time, but he eventually retired. My exporter across the pond was always more than fair with me and, the big deal with my importer was that he electro-penciled his company name on the bottom of the barrel beneath the stock in very small characters.
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
#26
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Thank You I tried using Leroy's first, but they sold the import business to a guy in Washington State and he only will import rifles from Canada. Good for Long Branch and Ross collectors. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Last edited by capt14k; 12-09-2017 at 6:08 PM.. |
#28
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Bull Moose k31's?? Another loop I'm out of?
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Latigo and P An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit...... he set in de bushes..... he watch an' he wait... lay low an' he don' say nuffin'. www.swissproductsusa.com |
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