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  #41  
Old 06-22-2018, 6:43 AM
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
Wrong.


There are precisely two influences in the world. Jesus. And His, 'loyal opposition.' How LONG do you want to leave your child in the clutches of the latter?


Moreover, baptism is a GIFT. Be ye 8 seconds, or 108 years old, you do NOTHING to "earn" it; all you CAN "do," is say, "THANK you," in acknowledgement of Christ free & unmerited grace in the gift of His sacrament.



Remember the 3rd article of the Creed, as we teach it from the Small Catechism;





One CANNOT, 'make a decision for Jesus.' Because by the time you can even THINK the words... the Holy Spirit done got to you FIRST.




/Here endeth the lesson...
Amen
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  #42  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:10 AM
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After 16yrs, tomorrow I will finally be baptized going to the beach With the church.
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  #43  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
Wrong.


There are precisely two influences in the world. Jesus. And His, 'loyal opposition.' How LONG do you want to leave your child in the clutches of the latter?

Moreover, baptism is a GIFT. Be ye 8 seconds, or 108 years old, you do NOTHING to "earn" it; all you CAN "do," is say, "THANK you," in acknowledgement of Christ free & unmerited grace in the gift of His sacrament.

Remember the 3rd article of the Creed, as we teach it from the Small Catechism;

One CANNOT, 'make a decision for Jesus.' Because by the time you can even THINK the words... the Holy Spirit done got to you FIRST.

/Here endeth the lesson...
Do you really believe baptism of an infant has ANY efficacy? What's your biblical basis (real theology, not proof-text a verse from Acts that doesn't mention children...)

Baptism a gift? Where's that in the Bible? The Bible teaches that baptism is an act in response to your salvation where you give your testimony to what Christ has already done for you. It's a deed, a work, commanded in Scripture, after salvation.

Where in the Bible do I find "the 3rd article of the Creed?" Remember Sola Scriptura?

Sorry, but you're not representing Christianity here, you're representing the religion of the reformed! Two, almost entirely different things.
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  #44  
Old 06-22-2018, 1:52 PM
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After 16yrs, tomorrow I will finally be baptized going to the beach With the church.
Congratulations.
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  #45  
Old 06-22-2018, 2:36 PM
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Do you really believe baptism of an infant has ANY efficacy? What's your biblical basis (real theology, not proof-text a verse from Acts that doesn't mention children...)

Baptism a gift? Where's that in the Bible? The Bible teaches that baptism is an act in response to your salvation where you give your testimony to what Christ has already done for you. It's a deed, a work, commanded in Scripture, after salvation.

Where in the Bible do I find "the 3rd article of the Creed?" Remember Sola Scriptura?

Sorry, but you're not representing Christianity here, you're representing the religion of the reformed! Two, almost entirely different things.



Read, young Anabaptist spudling!


https://www.lcms.org/about/beliefs/f...ctrine#baptism


lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1086



https://www.bartleby.com/essay/The-L...e-P3Z3PN4C8BRS


https://www.wls.wels.net/review-infant-baptism/


Those'll get you started. BTW, in the LCMS at least, the Pastor's ordination vows state, that the Lutheran Confessions are not "A right exposition of the faith," as if there are several possible "right" expositions. The Ordinand confesses, that the Lutheran Confessions are "THE right exposition of the Christian faith." For reference.



So unlike you 16th Century Anabaptists-come-lately, Lutherans practice the Apostolic faith of the 1st century, which INCLUDES... infant Baptism.




The lesson does not end here. Check back, when you're read up on it.
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  #46  
Old 06-22-2018, 4:36 PM
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Read, young Anabaptist spudling!


https://www.lcms.org/about/beliefs/f...ctrine#baptism


lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1086



https://www.bartleby.com/essay/The-L...e-P3Z3PN4C8BRS


https://www.wls.wels.net/review-infant-baptism/


Those'll get you started. BTW, in the LCMS at least, the Pastor's ordination vows state, that the Lutheran Confessions are not "A right exposition of the faith," as if there are several possible "right" expositions. The Ordinand confesses, that the Lutheran Confessions are "THE right exposition of the Christian faith." For reference.



So unlike you 16th Century Anabaptists-come-lately, Lutherans practice the Apostolic faith of the 1st century, which INCLUDES... infant Baptism.




The lesson does not end here. Check back, when you're read up on it.
Sorry, letting others explain doctrine for you doesn't cut it. If you don't know it and can't explain it - from the Bible, properly exegeted - it doesn't count.

The Bible is VERY clear on the doctrine of baptism - in all of its forms (do you know what those are?). And, what you've written doesn't agree with Scripture. Just pointing that out. As Christians, we're Sola Scriptura. NOT Sola denomination doctrine, not sola creeds, not sola catechisms, not sola reformed writers, etc. Just Sola Scripture.

And, as Paul wrote Timothy, we're expected to "ὀρθοτομοῦντα τὸν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας." (expecting you have a Greek font for your Bible studies).
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  #47  
Old 06-22-2018, 5:17 PM
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  #48  
Old 06-24-2018, 5:59 PM
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Sorry, but your personal attacks - name calling and the video - only show the sinfulness of your own heart, and say nothing about those who believe the Bible as I do.

Second, you have not responded with your own Biblical basis for your beliefs and, hence, are not able to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15).

I took a look at the first of your links and it is one of the worst cases of mishandling, misinterpreting, misusing and abusing of the Bible that I've, honestly, have ever seen. Anyone of knows those verse references could honestly feel some of the righteous anger that God feels when He sees such false teachers leading people astray.

I'm expecting a personal attack in return now. Instead, I pray that you're eyes will be opened through the knowledge and wisdom of Christ, to seeing His truth and reject this false teaching.

In Christ,
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  #49  
Old 06-25-2018, 12:44 PM
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Personal attacks? I’ve missed that part. Bill, maybe it isn’t intentional, but you come off as very condescending and arrogant. I certainly don’t agree with some Lutheran theology, but you seemingly are willing to toss a fellow believer into the fire because he doesn’t agree with you on all points of biblical interpretation. How is what you are doing helping the kingdom?
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  #50  
Old 06-25-2018, 1:44 PM
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Personal attacks? I’ve missed that part. Bill, maybe it isn’t intentional, but you come off as very condescending and arrogant. I certainly don’t agree with some Lutheran theology, but you seemingly are willing to toss a fellow believer into the fire because he doesn’t agree with you on all points of biblical interpretation. How is what you are doing helping the kingdom?
"Read, young Anabaptist spudling!" What's that? And the video? And, all of this instead of answering biblically.

Did you look at his posts and see him pushing a theology that he can't explain or defend? Pointing to websites that he expects me to go to and spend the time to refute when he hasn't read them enough to even see that what they wrote is garbage? Not arrogance on my part to push back on that. Arrogant on his part to push a position he has no clue about, right? Then, when I push back for a reasoned, biblical basis (he says he's a Christian, so I can assume that), I get name-calling and videos, but no answers. That's arrogance and condescension.

Ever read the gospels and see how Christ answered the Jewish leaders when they pushed their garbage religion on Him? Ever read John's epistles and see how we're commanded to treat those who teach falsely? Ever study how Paul confronted Peter in Galatians 2 for an error that people would call Paul on the carpet for today for being too hard on Peter? Ever refuse food at a meal at a friend's house because another friend, a young Christian, there is stumbled by the fact that his/her previous religion did weird things and he/she couldn't eat it with a clear conscience?

As a pastor, do you think another Christian has ever come up to me in Church and said any of the things that "supposed" Christians say to me all the time here? Heavens no. And the things I preach in church are far stronger than the simple theology we "discuss" here. I can't get many "Christians" to give a biblical basis for anything they write here, yet in a Christian church, that's the only basis we use for discussion. It's the only basis God allows.

Please consider what I wrote and come back to the thread to discuss the topic-at-hand, with your biblical understanding, OK?

God bless,
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  #51  
Old 06-25-2018, 6:37 PM
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Honestly Bill, if I were an Elder in your church you would have been fired a long time ago. It blows my mind that a man who's job it is to teach others about Grace has none of it. A shame.
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Old 06-25-2018, 7:05 PM
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Honestly Bill, if I were an Elder in your church you would have been fired a long time ago. It blows my mind that a man who's job it is to teach others about Grace has none of it. A shame.
Sorry that you feel that way. Grace, mercy, compassion, kindness, etc. all have a place, but so does refuting error, admonishing, etc. God doesn't do them all at the same time, but as appropriate, as I pointed out above. Those who come to a forum that gets thousands of reads and claim Christianity, yet teach other than the Bible and the person of Christ, need to be refuted and admonished. They are not innocent.

By the way, I'd never qualify as an elder in your church, because I don't base my theology on church history, creeds, and catechisms. I only know Scripture because of Hebrews 4:12 and boast only in Christ crucified (Gal. 6:14).

Per 1 Peter 3:13 and its context, you have my blessings.
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  #53  
Old 06-25-2018, 8:05 PM
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Ahh. A personal attack on Ramclap’s church.
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  #54  
Old 06-25-2018, 9:12 PM
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Ahh. A personal attack on Ramclap’s church.
No, that's the reality of his church. He's an elder there and from his many, many posts, he has shown that is how they answer spiritual issues. Completely different church than I serve at. That is also why is comment about me being fired has zero value to me - I would never be hired there, so couldn't be fired.

So, you've come back to attack. So why not answer the questions I asked above - biblically? Or do you just want to continue to attack? Hmmmm...
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Old 06-26-2018, 5:10 AM
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I am choosing not to engage in any further discussion with you, Bill. I see no benefit in it.
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Old 06-26-2018, 5:33 AM
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Sorry that you feel that way. Grace, mercy, compassion, kindness, etc. all have a place, but so does refuting error, admonishing, etc. God doesn't do them all at the same time, but as appropriate, as I pointed out above. Those who come to a forum that gets thousands of reads and claim Christianity, yet teach other than the Bible and the person of Christ, need to be refuted and admonished. They are not innocent.

By the way, I'd never qualify as an elder in your church, because I don't base my theology on church history, creeds, and catechisms. I only know Scripture because of Hebrews 4:12 and boast only in Christ crucified (Gal. 6:14).

Per 1 Peter 3:13 and its context, you have my blessings.
Yes Bill. You've made it quite clear that you know more than Martin Luther and the Reformers. That fact that you would have never heard the Term "Sola Scriptura" without them escapes you completely. Your theology is your own. It is strictly based on your own interpretation because you refuse to accept the thoughts of the great teachers of the faith. For that reason you are in no postion to refute or admonish anyone. I appeal to you to repent and ask those you attack for forgiveness.
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Old 06-26-2018, 5:45 AM
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Yes Bill. You've made it quite clear that you know more than Martin Luther and the Reformers. That fact that you would have never heard the Term "Sola Scriptura" without them escapes you completely. Your theology is your own. It is strictly based on your own interpretation because you refuse to accept the thoughts of the great teachers of the faith. For that reason you are in no postion to refute or admonish anyone. I appeal to you to repent and ask those you attack for forgiveness.
I never claimed to know more than the Reformers. But, as you just proved you don't believe that Sola Scriptura is Sola Scriptura ("without them"). Sola Scriptura is a label that every true Old Testament saint (e.g. Psalm 119!) and every New Testament saint (e.g. 1 Cor. 14:37) has believed and followed since Moses wrote the first words of Scripture:

Deut 30:10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul. 11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

I did not write those comments above as an insult. It's truly how you view your Christianity. Your post is consistent with all of your other posts - based on the reformation writers and not on Scripture. Am I wrong for point that out?

I don't know more than Marin Luther, but my Christianity is more like his because it is based solely on Scripture. See my signature below!
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:25 AM
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As a follower of Christ Ive been reading your comments now I'm no bible teacher but iam more in tune with God now than I have ever been he has shown me visions that are coming to pass.

You guys make have different points of view and what I was believe is if your going to make points let them come from the Bible it self anything else could be misinformation from the writer but we know that the Bible is true.

I respect All of you and I know some may say that bill may come off to harsh but I know with all of my Heart he is doing it out of love for you guys and for God,

Let us seek the answers through Gods word and no other, I respect Bill because he always comes with the Scripture which we are taught to do.

I don't know just felt I should write this and let's us try and edify in Love and advance the Kingdom of are LORD AND SAVIOR, AMEN.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:45 AM
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As a follower of Christ Ive been reading your comments now I'm no bible teacher but iam more in tune with God now than I have ever been he has shown me visions that are coming to pass.

You guys make have different points of view and what I was believe is if your going to make points let them come from the Bible it self anything else could be misinformation from the writer but we know that the Bible is true.

I respect All of you and I know some may say that bill may come off to harsh but I know with all of my Heart he is doing it out of love for you guys and for God,

Let us seek the answers through Gods word and no other, I respect Bill because he always comes with the Scripture which we are taught to do.

I don't know just felt I should write this and let's us try and edify in Love and advance the Kingdom of are LORD AND SAVIOR, AMEN.
Thanks, Libertyordeath. May the Lord bless you not only for your kind words, but for you commitment to His Word.

Have a blessed day,
Bill
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