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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:57 AM
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Default Duncan V Becerra - CRPA suit on large cap mags 5/18/17

Press release

NRA and CRPA Supported Federal Lawsuit Challenging California’s Ban on Standard Capacity Magazines Filed


Today, NRA attorneys representing the California Rifle & Pistol Association (CRPA) and several California gun owners filed the second in a series of important lawsuits that challenge California’s ban on the possession of standard capacity magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds.

The lawsuit, titled Duncan v. Becerra, challenges California’s ban on possession of these standard capacity magazines because the law violates the Second Amendment, due process clause, and takings clause of the United States Constitution.

Duncan is the second in a series of long and carefully planned lawsuits challenging the package of gun bans passed last year that have collectively become known as “gunmageddon” among gun owners.
To stay up-to-date on the Duncan case, as well as other important lawsuits and Second Amendment issues, make sure you are subscribed to NRA and CRPA email alerts. And don’t forget to register in advance for CRPA/NRA’s upcoming free webinars explaining the pending DOJ “assault weapon” and “large-capacity” magazine regulations and future legal challenges, and view the current webinars on these laws at crpa.org/webinars.

Help us Fight California’s Illegal and Unconstitutional Anti-Gun Laws
Beware of imitators. As NRA and CRPA continue their legal efforts in the courts and political efforts at every level of government, we need all California gun owners standing with NRA and CRPA. We cannot be successful without your help.

By donating today to the CRPA Foundation, and volunteering to help the fight at volunteer@crpa.org, you can help undo “gunmageddon” and the anti-gun Proposition 63, and begin the process of restoring firearms freedoms and the right to choose to own a firearms to defend yourself and your family in California!

NRA/ CRPA’s first lawsuit, Rupp v. Becerra, was filed in Federal District Court in Orange County and seeks to declare California’s “assault weapon” ban unconstitutional. Additional lawsuits challenging the other “gunmageddon” bills, including the new laws enacted by Proposition 63, are currently being prepared and will be filed soon.

Complaint: http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/..._Complaint.pdf


ETA: see also the Calguns thread on Wiese v Becerra, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1329280
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Once again, we're in CA Bill Season.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

Let us simply oppose them all - write, call, attend meetings with legislators and tell them they're wrong.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 05-21-2017 at 3:14 PM..
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:58 AM
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Yay!

$$ on the way.

.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:25 PM
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librarian;
the title of this thread says "Duncan V Becerra - CRPA suit on large cap mags 5/18/17"

yet the press release specifically says "standard capacity"
you should fix your title.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkshire View Post
librarian;
the title of this thread says "Duncan V Becerra - CRPA suit on large cap mags 5/18/17"

yet the press release specifically says "standard capacity"
you should fix your title.
The legal definition in the questioned law is 'large-capacity magazines'. Until this suit or similar removes that from the law, the current definition is required,
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Once again, we're in CA Bill Season.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

Let us simply oppose them all - write, call, attend meetings with legislators and tell them they're wrong.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 05-18-2017, 1:00 PM
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The California definition of "large-capacity" is different than the definition in the sane part(s) of the US, so there's that.
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Old 05-18-2017, 1:56 PM
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Any notable differences between Duncan v Becerra and Wiese v Becerra? Giving both a read again.

Duncan
http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/..._Complaint.pdf

Wiese
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1493395430

Last edited by Write Winger; 05-18-2017 at 2:12 PM..
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Old 05-18-2017, 1:59 PM
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Given that Wiese v. Becerra also addresses the same issue, should we anticipate the two merging? The two are very similar in their arguments, save for a few nuances.

Is there a perceived advantage to having two concurrent cases litigated simultaneously at this time?
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Old 05-18-2017, 2:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write Winger View Post
Any notable differences between Duncan v Becerra and Wiese v Becerra? Giving both a read again.
The Wiese complaint makes an interesting argument illustrating how the states' proposed mechanism for disposing of illegal magazines is riddled with pitfalls for the law abiding citizen.
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Old 05-18-2017, 2:35 PM
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Weise also attacks the "what is a large capacity mag" issue from the angle of "is a 10 round magazine for 458 SOCOM a large capacity magazine?" - something that did nor appear to be addressed in the Duncan complaint.
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Old 05-18-2017, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
The California definition of "large-capacity" is different than the definition in the sane part(s) of the US, so there's that.
In sane parts, there is no definition, because none is needed. Colloquial usage is fine. It's even fine at Calguns, except those narrow topics that discuss CA law.
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Once again, we're in CA Bill Season.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

Let us simply oppose them all - write, call, attend meetings with legislators and tell them they're wrong.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #11  
Old 05-18-2017, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
In sane parts, there is no definition, because none is needed. Colloquial usage is fine. It's even fine at Calguns, except those narrow topics that discuss CA law.
A solution: Librarian, just put "large capacity mags" in quotes in the title.

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Old 05-18-2017, 7:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
A solution: Librarian, just put "large capacity mags" in quotes in the title.

Better solution just use 10+rd .
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Old 05-18-2017, 7:18 PM
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So most of the California gun grabs of old they provided a legal method for grandfathering. They weren't forcing people to give up property ala a regulatory taking. So the question is are we likely to see a stay? If the laws are ultimately turned over how will they make the planetiffs whole if they were forced to destroy property?

In a related question with regards to unserialized firearms. Again won't we expect a stay? As the process if serialization isn't really reversible. Since the new aw regs require serialization doesn't that mean another stay?
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Old 05-18-2017, 9:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer View Post
So most of the California gun grabs of old they provided a legal method for grandfathering. They weren't forcing people to give up property ala a regulatory taking. So the question is are we likely to see a stay? If the laws are ultimately turned over how will they make the planetiffs whole if they were forced to destroy property?

In a related question with regards to unserialized firearms. Again won't we expect a stay? As the process if serialization isn't really reversible. Since the new aw regs require serialization doesn't that mean another stay?
+1.
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Old 05-18-2017, 9:51 PM
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I believe that these laws are in place for the "safety" of others. What is safety? Safety, according to these laws, is a practice to make it harder for people, of all backgrounds, to obtain high capacity magazines. The only problem I see is that criminals buy firearms from handmade, unlicensed, individuals for the illicit purpose of crime. People purchase guns made from licensed manufacturers, and criminals buy them from unlicensed criminal manufacturers. Open carry would deter criminals of all backgrounds. Money talks, criminal weapons are easily purchased. Ask any detective and they will tell you.

Last edited by Prince; 05-21-2017 at 6:39 AM..
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince View Post
I believe that these laws are in place for the "safety" of others. What is safety? Safety, according to these laws, is a practice to make it harder for people, of all backgrounds, to obtain high capacity magazines. The only problem I see is that criminals buy firearms from handmade, unlicensed, individuals for the illicit purpose of crime. People buy guys made from licensed manufacturers, and criminals buy them from unlicensed criminal manufacturers. Open carry would deter criminals of all backgrounds. Money talks, criminal weapons are easily purchased. Ask any detective and they will tell you.
I also have a problem with the term safety. If firearm operates as the user intends then it is safe. Anything that is beyond making that true isn't safety and must be labeled something else.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer View Post
Better solution just use 10+rd .
Technically it would be ">10rd" or "11+rd, as "10+rd" would indicate "Magazines that are > or = 10rd", c'mon you're an engineer

Anyways, I'm happy to see this lawsuit. I wish CGF would communicate with people, it's almost like they either had no idea CRPA was planning this, or more likely they wanted to shove their lawsuit in before CRPA had a chance since it's well-known CRPA has half a dozen lawsuits in the works aimed at the new laws. Hopefully the CRPA one takes the forefront, IMO.
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Old 05-19-2017, 5:49 PM
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Lawsuit Challenges California Magazine Ban:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2017/may/19...-magazine-ban/
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Old 05-19-2017, 6:06 PM
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Bring the pain and bring back my rights.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:15 PM
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It's nice to see some litigation to restore rights. But why this focus on fine shades of meaning with legal definitions? There is a bigger issue at stake that creates an opportunity.

Last year's unanimous Supreme Court decision Caetano vs. Massachusetts made it clear that the Court recognizes a fundamental right to effective self defense and the 2nd Amendment has a role in protecting that capability, state law not withstanding.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...10078_aplc.pdf

What needs to be introduced into the factual record at the trial court stage are examples of a legitimate self-defense need. Specifically, the recent trend in home invasion burglaries to be perpetrated by five assailants. These actual cases, and more, should be entered into the record.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...sion/82765512/

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...me_invasi.html

http://www.click2houston.com/news/hu...n-west-houston

http://www.northescambia.com/2015/01...-home-invasion

http://wavy.com/2016/10/17/police-se...asion-assault/

http://www.wcti12.com/news/local-new...tody/419461125

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ouver_hom.html

http://abc7.com/news/rancho-cucamong...glars/1396801/

https://www.ci.clovis.ca.us/News/clo...vasion-robbery

http://fox40.com/2015/05/19/5-arrest...home-invasion/

https://patch.com/connecticut/darien...-home-invasion

http://pilotonline.com/news/local/cr...8d4d64fc4.html

Even the Obama justice department prosecuted these:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr...ion-conspiracy

It should be a straightforward discussion with expert witnesses to make it clear that the 10-round limit does not provide effective self defense against that many attackers.

A RAND Corp study put police accuracy at 18%. So 5 attackers requires 28 rounds to hit all the attackers with one round each (for trained police officers).

http://nation.time.com/2013/09/16/re...ng-bystanders/
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Old 05-20-2017, 2:23 PM
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+1
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:58 PM
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Let us please stick to discussions of the lawsuit identified in the OP.
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Once again, we're in CA Bill Season.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

Let us simply oppose them all - write, call, attend meetings with legislators and tell them they're wrong.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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