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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1401  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Please, there is practically nothing I have not shot (except my wife). And it's dangerous in many ways in specific conditions. I have slipped more than a few times. And remember bro, they are NOT ALL AR's. An AR with a Hera (which I just bought a few weeks ago and installed on a rifle) is miles ahead of some kind of cheapo AK wrap or worse, something made for a non-standard rifle like a bullpup. On a bullpup, a wrap or block is really really really unsafe because all the weight is towards the rear and at the point where you NEED to have a solid thumb grip on the weapon.

Train with more than an AR and you'll see the problem right away. Train with the AR long enough, especially on transition drills, and you will see the problem with AR's too.

It's just not true that it's safe. If a guy came to you without thumbs, would you want to run and gun next to him?


You will use anything to push your agenda to register won't you? LOL.
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  #1402  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
You're making a logical mistake. You can in fact wrap your thumb around a conventional stock. I can't believe you didn't realize this man, you got to think about these things for more than a few minutes.
LOL. That's why you train. Are you gonna tell someone who just purchased one of these below that it's completely unsafe while they are legal to purchase?

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Last edited by meno377; 05-19-2017 at 3:48 PM..
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  #1403  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:46 PM
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Fact: Fabio is not on our side
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Originally Posted by sbrady@Michel&Associates View Post
Wrong Fabio. I believe they were talking about calguns member "FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!".
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  #1404  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:48 PM
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[/B]
You will use anything to push your agenda to register won't you? LOL.
No, because there is no agenda. I'm as depressed as everyone else they took the time to just make the same crap a little stronger, and it angers me to no end.

But pushing featureless is still a big problem, it's just another bad option. I have to read and think and analyze this weeks developments and watch the Michel seminar on the 25th before coming to any conclusion as to what to do.
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  #1405  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:49 PM
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So the DOJ requested for more funding back in Jan. They expect to receive registrations from "250,000" different owners and this is what they expect will fund the new plan.

What happens if they don't reach that number?
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  #1406  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
No, because there is no agenda. I'm as depressed as everyone else they took the time to just make the same crap a little stronger, and it angers me to no end.

But pushing featureless is still a big problem, it's just another bad option. I have to read and think and analyze this weeks developments and watch the Michel seminar on the 25th before coming to any conclusion as to what to do.
It's an option that allows you to use a regular magazine release. If you are so into what is safe and what isn't then why don't we discuss bullet buttons?
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  #1407  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:52 PM
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So the DOJ requested for more funding back in Jan. They expect to receive registrations from "250,000" different owners and this is what they expect will fund the new plan.

What happens if they don't reach that number?
Or when their system crashes because it can't support the volume of high resolution pictures?
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  #1408  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:52 PM
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Wrong Fabio. I believe they were talking about calguns member "FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!".
Many think that FABIO, is FABIO, as it is believed that he is indeed a calguns member.

A.W.D.
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  #1409  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:53 PM
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LOL. That's why you train. Are you gonna tell someone who just purchased one of these below that it's completely unsafe while they are legal to purchase?

I bought the stock and put it on a rifle. And yes, in certain situations it's unsafe, regardless of the amount of training. Definitely less safe than a pistol grip. It's not a bad option, but it's severely crippling your ability to control the rifle in high stress situations.

Now show me the options that are anywhere near this well thought out and designed for other rifles. They don't exist. All we have is a bunch of terrible kydex, or worse, no grip at all!
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  #1410  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:54 PM
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Whats amazing is they only let us purchase "Safe" hand guns
But want to re-engineer semi autos so they are completely unsafe
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  #1411  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
You're making a logical mistake. You can in fact wrap your thumb around a conventional stock. I can't believe you didn't realize this man, you got to think about these things for more than a few minutes.

It depends on what type of featureless. Yes, grip wraps are a little cumbersome, but a very cheap way to solve a problem (especially with AKs). If you want featureless and something along the lines of a real rifle feel, the Thordsen stock works well. It looks stupid and is much more expensive, but it works well. Monster man is surprising good for AKs, I have not tried the ar15 version. But you can "grip" the monster man. Just from below with your whole hand. Also there is the exile machine fin, which has a stumpy grip sticking out out sideways, and surprisingly feels like you're actually gripping the pistol grip. But as you know featureless has been used long before any of these AW regs came out. I haven't heard of any accidents using grip wraps, or all the other variations. It just boils down to comfort. I don't think you can legally make a case that these are dangerous when there isn't any documented instances of an issue.
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  #1412  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Many think that FABIO, is FABIO, as it is believed that he is indeed a calguns member.

A.W.D.
That, I did not know. Interesting... thanks.
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  #1413  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:56 PM
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It's an option that allows you to use a regular magazine release. If you are so into what is safe and what isn't then why don't we discuss bullet buttons?
I agree a BB is also unsafe. Just far less so.
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  #1414  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:57 PM
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Whats amazing is they only let us purchase "Safe" hand guns
But want to re-engineer semi autos so they are completely unsafe
But of course, we all know none of this or the roster has ANYTHING to do with safety. They could care less about our safety.
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  #1415  
Old 05-19-2017, 3:59 PM
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But of course, we all know none of this or the roster has ANYTHING to do with safety. They could care less about our safety.
What are you talking about? AW (or a standard rifle) is used in like .2% of crimes and shooting deaths, aren't you concerned about the children?
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  #1416  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:01 PM
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I don't see anything that mentions changes except:

5477. Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1); Post-Registration Modification of Registered Assault Weapons, Prohibition.

(a) The release mechanism for an ammunition feeding deice on an assault weapon registered pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subvdivision (b)(1) shall not be changed after the assault weapon is registered. A weapon's eligibility for registration pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) depends, in part, on its release mechanism. Any alteration to the release mechanism converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered

You can't change from a bullet button to a standard magazine release, but I see nothing about changing the upper. An AW must have an upper and be a complete fully functioning firearm in order to be registered.
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  #1417  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:01 PM
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  #1418  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:02 PM
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What are you talking about? AW (or a standard rifle) is used in like .2% of crimes and shooting deaths, aren't you concerned about the children?
If only we can save .001 children...
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  #1419  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I bought the stock and put it on a rifle. And yes, in certain situations it's unsafe, regardless of the amount of training. Definitely less safe than a pistol grip. It's not a bad option, but it's severely crippling your ability to control the rifle in high stress situations.

Now show me the options that are anywhere near this well thought out and designed for other rifles. They don't exist. All we have is a bunch of terrible kydex, or worse, no grip at all!

You mean like this one on my PTR and SCAR? Again training with these aren't a problem. Although I can't speak for others, if you are uncomfortable using a grip wrap, that's your choice. I am not uncomfortable. I am more uncomfortable using a bullet button in a stressful situation. However training is effective also using a bullet button.

20170519_170239.jpg
20170519_171721.jpg
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I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
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-Milton Friedman


Sent from a hamster running really fast.

Last edited by meno377; 05-19-2017 at 4:31 PM..
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  #1420  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
LOL. That's why you train. Are you gonna tell someone who just purchased one of these below that it's completely unsafe while they are legal to purchase?

I kinda' like the Herra stock, but it was not originally designed with the plate.
That was after the fact to accommodate CA and similar firearms laws. It is designed to be a thumbhole stock.

A.W.D.
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  #1421  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:14 PM
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You would have to leave the bullet button on to register. And an adjustable stock is a feature.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
So does that mean a PRS stock is a "feature"?
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  #1422  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:15 PM
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That, I did not know. Interesting... thanks.
Many gun forums are frequented by celebrity members, as they're regular people too, who also like firearms.

A.W.D.
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  #1423  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:17 PM
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I don't know, our Fabio seems to have a better grasp of english than the famous Fabio.
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  #1424  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:22 PM
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You mean like this one on my PTR?

Attachment 607449
My PTR is bigger than your PTR. And no, a grip wrap is awful with that platform, try racking the charging handle on a wet day without it.

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  #1425  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:27 PM
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My PTR is bigger than your PTR. And no, a grip wrap is awful with that platform, try racking the charging handle on a wet day without it.

LOL. It's not a problem racking the slide.
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  #1426  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:28 PM
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My PTR is bigger than your PTR. And no, a grip wrap is awful with that platform, try racking the charging handle on a wet day without it.

You win the PTR Internet today sir.


A.W.D.
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  #1427  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:29 PM
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LOL. It's not a problem racking the slide.
"Racking the slide" is not a term used for HK rollers, you're out of the club.
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  #1428  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:32 PM
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"Racking the slide" is not a term used for HK rollers, you're out of the club.
Oh I'm sorry. Racking the charging handle.
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-Milton Friedman


Sent from a hamster running really fast.
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  #1429  
Old 05-19-2017, 4:41 PM
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So does that mean a PRS stock is a "feature"?
My understanding is that the PRS isn't a telescoping stock. The stock itself doesn't telescope like a traditional AR carbine stock. The butt pad is adjustable for length of pull, but again, it's stock itself is not telescoping. That's just my opinion.
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Old 05-19-2017, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I bought the stock and put it on a rifle. And yes, in certain situations it's unsafe, regardless of the amount of training. Definitely less safe than a pistol grip. It's not a bad option, but it's severely crippling your ability to control the rifle in high stress situations.

Now show me the options that are anywhere near this well thought out and designed for other rifles. They don't exist. All we have is a bunch of terrible kydex, or worse, no grip at all!
I have to agree, I made my own grip because I didn't like any of what was out there. In all reality it's not as safe as a standard grip. The safety being on the wrong side isn't an argument because you can buy a left handed or ambi safety. But you don't get the ability to properly hold the weapon. I haven't dropped mine but I see how it's possible. I added a bunch of stippling to my grip to help. Only reason I went this route is mag release. If the DOJ allowed it with registration I would do it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 4:59 PM
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Fact: FGG is not on our side.
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  #1432  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:00 PM
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Your argument for fighting in court that featureless is unsafe won't fly. Explain using a Mini 14 as another example of being unsafe?
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
You're making a logical mistake. You can in fact wrap your thumb around a conventional stock. I can't believe you didn't realize this man, you got to think about these things for more than a few minutes.
Not to mention that the safety on a Mini-14 is located inside the trigger guard, like on an M1A or a Garand. You don't need your thumb to be on the left side of the receiver to operate it. All you need is your trigger finger at the ready.
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  #1433  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:17 PM
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Not to mention that the safety on a Mini-14 is located inside the trigger guard, like on an M1A or a Garand. You don't need your thumb to be on the left side of the receiver to operate it. All you need is your trigger finger at the ready.
Whether you use your left or right thumb to disengage the safety on an AR, doesn't deem it unsafe. Training is the key to any rifle. And whether you have the safety inside the trigger guard like the M1, M1A or Mini 14, it's more about muscle memory. Having a grip wrap while inconvenient, doesn't mean it's unsafe if you train with it.
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-Milton Friedman


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  #1434  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott0san View Post
Whats amazing is they only let us purchase "Safe" hand guns
But want to re-engineer semi autos so they are completely unsafe
Wait until they deem all handguns without microstamping as being unsafe.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
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  #1435  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:22 PM
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elSquid elSquid is offline
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Fact: FGG is not on our side.
Fact: FGG participated in purely positive ways way back when. Around the time of the rise of the "right people" FGG would point out problem and weaknesses in legal arguments, only to get dismissed by said "right people" and dogpiled on by unthinking kool aid drinkers.

As this went on, FGG's tone changed...

...it seems to me that FGG is pro gun, but isn't pro "the right people" or pro "wannabe internet gun rights lawyer."

-- Michael
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  #1436  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:52 PM
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Discogodfather Discogodfather is offline
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Whether you use your left or right thumb to disengage the safety on an AR, doesn't deem it unsafe. Training is the key to any rifle. And whether you have the safety inside the trigger guard like the M1, M1A or Mini 14, it's more about muscle memory. Having a grip wrap while inconvenient, doesn't mean it's unsafe if you train with it.
Did you get an ambi saftey for your PTR? Not so easy to find a solution for that one.
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
So it sounds to me like you're outraged about something that isn't actually happening anywhere outside your imagination.
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  #1437  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:54 PM
SJ_Man SJ_Man is offline
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Is there any way to make an AR pistol featureless? Also if I did a vol reg on an 80% pistol build do I still need to apply for a SN to register?
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  #1438  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:57 PM
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ProlificARProspect ProlificARProspect is offline
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Fact: FGG is not on our side.
Double down....

Fact: Fabio Gets Goosed is not on our side.
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"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it; and this I know, my lords, that where laws end, tyranny begins."

“Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security”

“Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
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  #1439  
Old 05-19-2017, 6:03 PM
Uncivil Engineer Uncivil Engineer is offline
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Originally Posted by SJ_Man View Post
Is there any way to make an AR pistol featureless? Also if I did a vol reg on an 80% pistol build do I still need to apply for a SN to register?
Featureless no. You can use a break action bullet button 2.0 or register.

The vol reg vs re-register is still up in the air as best as I can see.
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  #1440  
Old 05-19-2017, 6:15 PM
2Aallday 2Aallday is offline
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
Fact: FGG participated in purely positive ways way back when. Around the time of the rise of the "right people" FGG would point out problem and weaknesses in legal arguments, only to get dismissed by said "right people" and dogpiled on by unthinking kool aid drinkers.

As this went on, FGG's tone changed...

...it seems to me that FGG is pro gun, but isn't pro "the right people" or pro "wannabe internet gun rights lawyer."

-- Michael
This. FGG is all about tearing down losing arguments.
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