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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:21 AM
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Default New open carry law upsets IE gun advocates

ONTARIO - It is now illegal to carry an exposed and unloaded handgun in a public place under Assembly Bill 144.

But don't tell that to Madison Jones, who has found an exemption to the new law - the ability to still openly carry long guns.

That means Jones may now be seen carrying an unloaded shotgun or rifle in public to make a political statement.

Read more: http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci...#ixzz1itdumTlr


Due to possible copyright violations, please just post a few comments from the article, a link and your own comment.

Last edited by retired; 01-09-2012 at 7:53 PM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:25 AM
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Good story, and good on Madison. Journalistic note: A ban on openly carrying handguns is not creating an "exemption" on openly carrying long guns.
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Old 01-08-2012, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dipsomaniac View Post
But don't tell that to Madison Jones, who has found an exemption to the new law - the ability to still openly carry long guns.
It isnt difficult to 'find' an exemption (there are more than 100), but I believe Madison is going about it the wrong way.

The problem is that the exemption she 'found' is the one that I am almost certain that the anti-gunners would like her to exploit, because that will be the exemption that will have the greatest capacity to instigate a police and media reaction that plays into their strategy.

If Madison saw through this ruse, she would have spent a little more time digging through the code to see if she could apply some artfully applied execution- and continue openly carrying a handgun as she did before 1-1-12.

But I dont think she or many other of the die-hard open carry practitioners are going to seek out the 10 or 12 exemptions that effectively nullify 26350 to spite Portantino and the other anti-gun legislators. It seems they are more determined to spite themselves.
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Old 01-08-2012, 5:06 PM
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And next Christmas there will be a new ban on carrying those too.

Dumb.
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Old 01-08-2012, 5:57 PM
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Default Idiots

Madison and James could both easily get an LTC should they want to. San Bernardino county gives them out like candy.

Instead, they both choose to prance around with long guns across their shoulder. Kids playing games, dying for attention.

Already discussed here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=520433
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Old 01-08-2012, 5:58 PM
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And yet another shining example of "you can't fix stupid".
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Old 01-08-2012, 6:15 PM
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I was about to say INB4 the Statists, but I see some of them already posted
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Old 01-08-2012, 6:38 PM
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So, you guys prefer asking for permission to carry guns? And only if you fit the description of what the Sheriff calls a citizen?

She's legal, yet too many think that actually using the 2ndA is distasteful without a permit.

Think this way; if long gun carry gets banned, the ONLY recourse left is for the SCOTUS to rule the 2ndA is the law in California. We should go out of our way to promote the carry of firearms in any legal manner----without the will of an elected official telling us otherwise.

Or...you could "mind your own business".
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Old 01-08-2012, 7:21 PM
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Old 01-08-2012, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Army View Post
So, you guys prefer asking for permission to carry guns?
Given the political realities in this state?

Yes.

If they want to carry loaded and concealed, yes, I do.

Poor Madison and James blabber on about having no other choice and being defenseless, but never mention that they could EASILY have an LTC if they would only apply.

Once California goes Shall-Issue, knuckleheads such as this will still exist. They can't get enough.

Again, kids wanting attention. I'm surprised it isn't on YouTube already.

You can't fix stupid.
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  #11  
Old 01-08-2012, 7:47 PM
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What is the background on this Madison person?

A for real 2A fighter or someone shedding light to get public attention to ban the long gun open carry?

I don't trust these people that cause the general public to get all up in a fuss and strike fear.
I prefer to introduce people to shooting the old fashion way, at a range. I did with my wife and my sister. Both enjoyed it, but still have no real knowledge of what we face. I think the more people we can share with and slowly inform that we might not be able to do this anymore the better off we will be in getting support overall.

Always need to expose the FUD at every turn.
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Old 01-08-2012, 7:51 PM
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You guys keep thinking strategy and careful legal loophole considerations.

They keep thinking stomp on you and your damn Constitution.

We need to start stomping back. That's the only thing they listen to.

All I hear from some of you, is turn the other cheek. But when you get that slapped too, you say wear a football helmet so they can hit you all they want. You guys keep whining "...they can't do that, it's unconstitutional". Apparently you haven't noticed....they don't care.

If carry of long arms is LEGAL WITHOUT PERMISSION, then dammit, carry legally. So what if they could get an LTC easily, the point is they should not have to!
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Old 01-08-2012, 7:57 PM
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It's good to see women getting more involved. We need it.
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Old 01-08-2012, 7:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
Madison and James could both easily get an LTC should they want to. San Bernardino county gives them out like candy.

Instead, they both choose to prance around with long guns across their shoulder. Kids playing games, dying for attention.

Already discussed here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=520433
Or perhaps they are standing up for our Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear arms. I think we are due to start filing lawsuits against this state which openly ignores our Constitution.
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Old 01-08-2012, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
So, you guys prefer asking for permission to carry guns? And only if you fit the description of what the Sheriff calls a citizen?

She's legal, yet too many think that actually using the 2ndA is distasteful without a permit.

Think this way; if long gun carry gets banned, the ONLY recourse left is for the SCOTUS to rule the 2ndA is the law in California. We should go out of our way to promote the carry of firearms in any legal manner----without the will of an elected official telling us otherwise.

Or...you could "mind your own business".
Hear! Hear!
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Old 01-08-2012, 8:18 PM
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It's harder to win a game of chess when you have somebody sitting next to you playing whack-a-mole on your board.
This is bumper sticker material right here.

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Old 01-08-2012, 8:33 PM
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Or perhaps they are standing up for our Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear arms. I think we are due to start filing lawsuits against this state which openly ignores our Constitution.
Knock yourself out hot rod.

Spend YOUR money on a poorly conceived and losing strategy.

These two OC'ers could both have their LTC by simply applying to San Berdoo county.

Their statements and actions are disengenuous.

I'm sure the Brady crowd applauds every action taken by what Stalin referred to as "Useful Idiots".
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Old 01-08-2012, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
"Idiots"
Ad Hominum

Quote:
Originally Posted by rimfire78 View Post
And next Christmas there will be a new ban on carrying those too.

Dumb.
Ad Hominum

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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
And yet another shining example of "you can't fix stupid".
Ad Hominum

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Originally Posted by Westerner View Post
It's good to see women getting more involved. We need it.
Completely agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
You guys keep thinking strategy and careful legal loophole considerations.

They keep thinking stomp on you and your damn Constitution.

We need to start stomping back. That's the only thing they listen to.

All I hear from some of you, is turn the other cheek. But when you get that slapped too, you say wear a football helmet so they can hit you all they want. You guys keep whining "...they can't do that, it's unconstitutional". Apparently you haven't noticed....they don't care.

If carry of long arms is LEGAL WITHOUT PERMISSION, then dammit, carry legally. So what if they could get an LTC easily, the point is they should not have to!
An unloaded firearm is less protected under the second amendment because it does not meet the definition of the core right to keep and bear. Specifically, it is not a weapon ready for immediate use in case of confrontation. Because of this, it is possible that unloaded firearms under current jurisprudence are vulnerable to stricter regulations on transportation than a loaded weapon would be. The effect of this possibility is magnified tenfold in the state of California due largely to the legislature.

My suggestion to continue carrying unloaded handguns utilizing the exemptions is intended as a great big 'middle finger' to Portantino and every other legislator that approved of AB144. This is a 'stomp' that will get their attention without instigating a response that might impose new regulations on long guns... such as a mandate to transport them in secure locked cases. That may happen anyway.

But by making them look like idiots for wasting time on passing legislation that no one heeds in the way they planned, we devalue the political capital of pursuing punative gun legislation like AB1934/AB144. Getting that in the media would be of value.
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Old 01-08-2012, 8:50 PM
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She's posted on the OPD FB page and the Applebees FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ontari...wall&filter=12

http://www.facebook.com/applebeesontariomills
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Old 01-08-2012, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rimfire78 View Post
And next Christmas there will be a new ban on carrying those too.

Dumb.
What does it matter? If it's going to be banned it'll get banned regardless. Come on now. If the only reason a right gets banned is when it's exercised then is it really a right?
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Old 01-08-2012, 8:52 PM
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Why are people so conflicted?

They admit to carrying for "political" reasons, yet, this is their only self defense. An unloaded rifle...
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Old 01-08-2012, 9:03 PM
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Why are people so conflicted?

They admit to carrying for "political" reasons, yet, this is their only self defense. An unloaded rifle...
The problem is that the press sells this (and the reverse) as sexy news, and the public is sophisticated enough to realize that most of the arguments are (A) intellectually dishonest, and (B) irrational in the face of social norms.

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Old 01-08-2012, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by locosway View Post
Why are people so conflicted?

They admit to carrying for "political" reasons, yet, this is their only self defense. An unloaded rifle...
Only defense?

Once again, either of them could have their LTC in San Berdoo, yet they CHOOSE to instead walk around, openly carrying unloaded guns then claim they have no other choice.

Complete and utter lies that only serve to set us all back.
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Old 01-08-2012, 9:10 PM
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Only defense?

Once again, either of them could have their LTC in San Berdoo, yet they CHOOSE to instead walk around, openly carrying unloaded guns then claim they have no other choice.

Complete and utter lies that only serve to set us all back.
I agree, I was just paraphrasing the article.
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Old 01-08-2012, 9:25 PM
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An unloaded firearm is less protected under the second amendment because it does not meet the definition of the core right to keep and bear. Specifically, it is not a weapon ready for immediate use in case of confrontation. Because of this, it is possible that unloaded firearms under current jurisprudence are vulnerable to stricter regulations on transportation than a loaded weapon would be. The effect of this possibility is magnified tenfold in the state of California due largely to the legislature.

My suggestion to continue carrying unloaded handguns utilizing the exemptions is intended as a great big 'middle finger' to Portantino and every other legislator that approved of AB144. This is a 'stomp' that will get their attention without instigating a response that might impose new regulations on long guns... such as a mandate to transport them in secure locked cases. That may happen anyway.

But by making them look like idiots for wasting time on passing legislation that no one heeds in the way they planned, we devalue the political capital of pursuing punative gun legislation like AB1934/AB144. Getting that in the media would be of value.
Every gun owner in the state should get a hunting license. It's cheaper than a lawyer and helps our wild game. It's also a write off

LTC holders are already exempt
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Old 01-08-2012, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
Given the political realities in this state?

Yes.

If they want to carry loaded and concealed, yes, I do.

Poor Madison and James blabber on about having no other choice and being defenseless, but never mention that they could EASILY have an LTC if they would only apply.

Once California goes Shall-Issue, knuckleheads such as this will still exist. They can't get enough.

Again, kids wanting attention. I'm surprised it isn't on YouTube already.

You can't fix stupid.
And some of us really don't like being forced to pay $261.00 for the PRIVELEDGE of carrying a firearm. When CA goes constitutional carry, things will be great. Until then those who choose to exercise the 2A to the limited extent possible without being extorted by the state should definitely exercise it.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:08 PM
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ya'll are looking at it all wrong
Unloaded Open Carry is the perfection form of protection (an AR being even better)

I'll let ya'll stew on that a bit, then i'll post the reason why
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
And some of us really don't like being forced to pay $261.00 for the PRIVELEDGE of carrying a firearm. When CA goes constitutional carry, things will be great. Until then those who choose to exercise the 2A to the limited extent possible without being extorted by the state should definitely exercise it.
That's your choice. How's it working out for you? I paid my $261 and carry every day.

There are a WHOLE lot of Calgunner's who would gladly pay that and more to get their LTC.

These two UOC'ers live in one of the few counties in CA that is virtually shall issue, but CHOOSE to instead lie and claim that UOC of long guns is the only choice they have.

These two UOC'ers claim to want to defend themselves, but in reality only want attention.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:45 PM
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That's your choice. How's it working out for you? I paid my $261 and carry every day.

There are a WHOLE lot of Calgunner's who would gladly pay that and more to get their LTC.
I would write a check for 20 times that amount right now if I could be assured a permit.

It would be worth it just to not have to go through the worrying about getting denied.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:52 PM
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Williams is in Colusa County, right? Unless our page update volunteer is running behind,

Quote:
http://calgunsfoundation.org/resourc...94-colusa.html
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This information brought to you by Calguns Foundation and these generous sponsors:

Colusa County has not received any sponsorship donations.

Get involved today - sponsor this county at http://www.cgfstore.org
A check for 20 times what it would probably cost you to get your LTC could make a huge difference in the fight to advance the right to bear arms. So, use 1/20 of that to get your LTC and make a tax-deductible donation of the remaining 19/20 to help us make some headway.

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Old 01-08-2012, 10:56 PM
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Williams is in Colusa County, right? Unless our page update volunteer is running behind,



A check for 20 times what it would probably cost you to get your LTC could make a huge difference in the fight to advance the right to bear arms. So, use 1/20 of that to get your LTC and make a tax-deductible donation of the remaining 19/20 to help us make some headway.

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This is what I'll be doing shortly, most likely with my proceeds from that class after supplies are paid.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:13 PM
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Williams is in Colusa County, right? Unless our page update volunteer is running behind,



A check for 20 times what it would probably cost you to get your LTC could make a huge difference in the fight to advance the right to bear arms. So, use 1/20 of that to get your LTC and make a tax-deductible donation of the remaining 19/20 to help us make some headway.

-Brandon
Hi Brandon,
I do still live in Colusa County, but I am in the city of Williams. The sheriff told me I had to apply in Williams since I am within the city limits. I spoke with the Chief of the WPD and he does not accept personal defense as a good cause for issuance.

Since I know I would be denied in Williams, I am going to put in my application at the Sheriff's office on the 23rd of this month and see if they officially turn me away. This is advice that you gave me in a previous thread. I sent you an email that detailed my exact circumstances but didn't receive a reply. Don't worry about it. I know you get a ton of email and cannot be expected to answer all of them.

As to donating, I have already signed up for the $25 per month option, but I can probably up that some. I will have to hold onto the rest until I find out if I will have to sue anybody over the permit.

I will keep you informed about what is happening, and thanks for all that you do for the RKBA.
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  #33  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:15 PM
stitchnicklas stitchnicklas is offline
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  #34  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:29 PM
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The sheriff is imposing a clearly-unlawful restriction upon you.

Here's what I'd like you to do: download, print, and review our soon-to-be released revised and new information on how to get your carry license. Go to the Sheriff's Office and take your application and some payment instrument for the local app fee (20% of local fee max. for initial payment), DOJ fee ($95), and fingerprints (usually $20-30).

If they turn you away, demand that they provide you with a copy of their policy indicating that you must first apply to a PD if you live in city limits. Make them give you a denial in writing, but in any case document everything to the very finest detail, then email me at bcombs@calgunsfoundation.org.

Really, if you're willing to self-fund a challenge to a sheriff's policies then it would be best to make sure you have all of the "i"s dotted.

-Brandon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
Hi Brandon,
I do still live in Colusa County, but I am in the city of Williams. The sheriff told me I had to apply in Williams since I am within the city limits. I spoke with the Chief of the WPD and he does not accept personal defense as a good cause for issuance.

Since I know I would be denied in Williams, I am going to put in my application at the Sheriff's office on the 23rd of this month and see if they officially turn me away. This is advice that you gave me in a previous thread. I sent you an email that detailed my exact circumstances but didn't receive a reply. Don't worry about it. I know you get a ton of email and cannot be expected to answer all of them.

As to donating, I have already signed up for the $25 per month option, but I can probably up that some. I will have to hold onto the rest until I find out if I will have to sue anybody over the permit.

I will keep you informed about what is happening, and thanks for all that you do for the RKBA.
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  #35  
Old 01-09-2012, 12:14 AM
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Decoligny Decoligny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
That's your choice. How's it working out for you? I paid my $261 and carry every day.

There are a WHOLE lot of Calgunner's who would gladly pay that and more to get their LTC.

These two UOC'ers live in one of the few counties in CA that is virtually shall issue, but CHOOSE to instead lie and claim that UOC of long guns is the only choice they have.

These two UOC'ers claim to want to defend themselves, but in reality only want attention.
Working out just fine. I paid the extortion, and have my LTC. I also participate in UOC gatherings to exercise my 1A right of free political expression. If I owned a long gun I might even open carry that to an Open Carry event. Those who don't get the LTC, don't give up their 2A or their 1A rights just because you don't want them to exercise them.

As far as them wanting attention, have you ever seen anyone involved in a politcal protest that didn't want anyone to see what they were doing, or not notice the protest?
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  #36  
Old 01-09-2012, 12:33 AM
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Bert Gamble Bert Gamble is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
The sheriff is imposing a clearly-unlawful restriction upon you.

Here's what I'd like you to do: download, print, and review our soon-to-be released revised and new information on how to get your carry license. Go to the Sheriff's Office and take your application and some payment instrument for the local app fee (20% of local fee max. for initial payment), DOJ fee ($95), and fingerprints (usually $20-30).

If they turn you away, demand that they provide you with a copy of their policy indicating that you must first apply to a PD if you live in city limits. Make them give you a denial in writing, but in any case document everything to the very finest detail, then email me at bcombs@calgunsfoundation.org.

Really, if you're willing to self-fund a challenge to a sheriff's policies then it would be best to make sure you have all of the "i"s dotted.

-Brandon
Thank you for the advice Brandon. I will wait until the new and improved information is available for download to submit my application and will for sure get everything in writing. Will you put up a post to let everyone know when it is available?

This is something that is very important to me and I will not stop trying. I will certainly email you as this progresses.
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  #37  
Old 01-09-2012, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Gamble View Post
Thank you for the advice Brandon. I will wait until the new and improved information is available for download to submit my application and will for sure get everything in writing. Will you put up a post to let everyone know when it is available?

This is something that is very important to me and I will not stop trying. I will certainly email you as this progresses.
We'll definitely have the news posted. Also, just as a sidenote, I went and checked my email; searching could not locate anything recent on Colusa. Just to make sure you have my correct address, bcombs@calgunsfoundation.org.

-Brandon
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  #38  
Old 01-09-2012, 4:05 AM
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I also loved this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
James Weakland of Rialto said he believes AB 144 takes away his rights as a gun owner.

"We're just asking for the ability to protect ourselves. It's our Second Amendment right to carry a concealed weapon without a permit," he said.
I don't believe this is an accepted interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, particularly not at this time. If he would have said "to carry a functional firearm for self-defense" that'd be more along the lines of correctness. But I guess self defense isn't really his concern, as others have mentioned...
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  #39  
Old 01-09-2012, 5:24 AM
IncVoid IncVoid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monk View Post
What does it matter? If it's going to be banned it'll get banned regardless. Come on now. If the only reason a right gets banned is when it's exercised then is it really a right?
I ask myself that too...Is it no longer a right when people stop doing it? Nah, just out of practice, eh...

I think laws are poorly written so they have something to fix next year...send out a poor "product" and wait for it to come back in for repair. Job security?
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  #40  
Old 01-09-2012, 5:31 AM
jukeboxx13 jukeboxx13 is offline
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does this mean i cant transport my handguns when i go to the range??
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