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  #41  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:57 PM
SmokeTheClay SmokeTheClay is offline
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Calguns is out of tune with your average CA citizen, possibly gun owner, under ~40

CA population is ~39M people, and about half of that is LA county and the Bay Area. Both areas are pro-abortion/LGBT+/etc/democrat. They could give 2 poops about what the second amendment says.

This forum lumps in too many republican stances into the gun politics. If we were in Kansas, then sure. Lump in anti-abortion movements into the discussion. Everyone will agree anyhow. BUT - this is CA and when you lump in anti-abortion and other losing battles, we lose.

Additionally, CA judges and politicians will find a way to get rid of gun ownership. Whether it’s taxation, laws, going after gun manufacturers, whatever. It’s a losing battle.

The only way I see things turning around is making gun ownership look good. Not saying “don’t infringe!!!” But actually somehow making gun ownership media friendly.

I live in CA, like the vast majority of people on this site. 70% of the people I work with, live around are clearly democrats. However, many of these same people are open to shooting or own a gun themselves. They don’t want their guns taken away either.

Calguns needs to realize the “Cal” stands for California and it’s a Democrat state. Cutting out the liberals is a losing battle. Lumping in other right wing ideologies is also a losing battle.

TL;DR: Make gun ownership look media friendly and cool. Don’t lump in other ideologies. Get liberal gun owners to be more in the open about their gun ownership.

Last edited by SmokeTheClay; 08-20-2019 at 12:15 AM..
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  #42  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
Alright, since you asked, I'll stick my neck out this ONCE, then leave it be. I'm only saying this because I've felt this way for years, and again, you asked! Probably entirely too wordy for my own good, but here goes:

I have left California as of 2-1/2 years ago, with all that that entails, including watching the California lunacy spread like the disease it is. Blah, blah, blah - which has little to do with the questions asked.

HOWEVER, I feel that this is going to generate some eye rolls, and that's part of the problem AS I SEE IT.

When I *was* a California resident, I thought "Cal Guns" was divisive, contentious, non-inclusive, and completely ineffectual. You need to have EVERY SINGLE CALIFORNIA GUN OWNING RESIDENT ON YOUR SIDE. This forum is full of right wing rhetoric, which is, to me and many others, JUST AS BAD AS THE LEFT. The ONLY thing the GOP has going for it is that it isn't the Democrats. Both of the major parties are parties of slavery, they both want to control the populace and suppress those they don't like. The only difference is the what and the who of it.

Focus on Gun Rights and Gun Rights ONLY. Do not promote the GOP - which admittedly has a vastly better record on this matter, but far from perfect - as being "The party of Freedom" as they are NOT any more than the Democrats are. Only a fool believes any politician.

Reach out to those who are not right wing Christians, and for Goddess' sake, stop thumping the Bible! Stop the "Bible-speak", and using outdated words like "mock" that should have been left in the 19th century. This is, or should be, Cal GUNS, not Cal BIBLE, regardless of what anyone's individual religion may or may not be.

I'm not saying this is "offensive" - it takes a lot more than that to "offend" me - I'm saying its divisive and non-inclusive and is DRIVING AWAY POTENTIAL ALLIES. The NRA is starting to have this exact same issue, with the same results - their internal problems not withstanding. If people don't feel welcome, they certainly won't ally with you.

I go to a shooting event every year in the deep south, and there are NONE of these issues there. The result: 3 Pagans, 2 Liberals, and at least 1 atheist join all the Christians every year and we all have a grand old time - because everybody goes out of their way to keep it focused on guns, shooting, food, and camaraderie and leave both the politics and their religion at home where it belongs. We all agree on gun rights, and that's all we need to agree on. Frankly, that isn't the atmosphere here, and I'd guess, not so much at California shooting events either; although I'll give the latter the benefit of the doubt as I wasn't involved when I was a Californian.

Now if this is "mocking" something or someone, well one last time, you asked. I have spoken, and will speak no more.
The fact that this post ^^ is taboo is the exact problem with Calguns.
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  #43  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:47 AM
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

I'd like to see a refocus on providing information, answering questions... Being more like a group of gun owners/shooters used to be when gathered at a range. Sharing information/knowledge, educating, and conversing rather than throwing perfunctory or smart aleck or often unrelated 'topic branches' into a thread simply to be posting... something.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

In many respects, there seems to be a sentiment among quite a number of 'power players' on this site that one cannot vote Democrat and still be on "our side." At a superficial level, I agree. If you exist in a State where the predominate ideology on the Left is FAR LEFT, radical, and far too often nonsensical (sometimes even to them), it can certainly seem that "their side" is made up of nothing but 'enemies.'

The problem is that by focusing solely on Republicans or Libertarians, you not only reinforce the Left's claim that it's a FAR RIGHT agenda, you potentially seem to threaten or turn off those in the 'middle;' a rather substantive group in California that gun owners are going to have to come to terms with if we want our rights returned to any noticeable degree. It's not quite "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" or "strange bedfellows," it's more like actually living up to the ideals you purport to defend.

Disagree on abortion, LGBTQ, social programs, immigration, et al.? Fine. Just remember that this is a 2nd Amendment Forum and there is no, single litmus test for "true" gun ownership in terms of one's overall politics, organizational memberships, or even what firearms are owned. Try to make it such and not only risk turning off would-be allies, you appear to conflict with the very notion of being liberal (small "L"); i.e., the ideals of the Founding Fathers.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

It's unfortunate that a few already seem... 'adept'... at getting away with that now; insulting, profanity laced, flame posts abound. Worse. There are, too often, posts which are racist, homophobic, et al. appearing, even to the most tolerant of such things. It's also unfortunate that it is not limited to the 'younger members.' Ironically, it's also patently in violation of the rules and there have been some who have posted their objections only to be 'shouted down' by those making such posts. (Moderators handle some of that, but they can't be everywhere at once, the filters only mitigate, and there doesn't seem to be a 'line in the sand' that is clearly drawn. That last being something difficult to lay out, making it akin to "I know it when I see it" and, thus, seemingly arbitrary to some at times.)

Such scurrilous, inflammatory, and/or "Rated R" material undermines the overall credibility of the site for many members and for many 'observers/lurkers.' If that's what you want to do, there are a seemingly endless number of sites which afford the opportunity. But, if your focus is persuasion and education, than NSFW material detracts from that.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

This is a 2nd Amendment forum and, as we know, there is often, fundamental and legitimate disagreement with regard to many 2nd Amendment issues. So? If the context is "pro-/anti-," how do you definitively determine which is which and who makes that decision? Let's just say that there are some here who would, if given the power, ban far too many as anti-gun for posting things they disagree with, even if that material was actually generated by the NRA.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

As I've already indicated, there are those who feel such has been 'loosened' far too much as it is; at least in some cases.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

The 'social community' on this site is based on a specific, civil right and the many areas that right impacts. Change that and what becomes the purpose of the site? My perception is that the plethora of subforums which already exist testifies to the idea that the 2nd Amendment influences or is part of many different activities.

However, and this 'complaint' has emerged on quite a number of threads, the bulk of the discourse since I've been a member appears focused in OT. Often, upon signing in, it is shown that there are over 200 viewing OT, with significantly fewer in sections such as General Gun Discussions, National 2nd Amendment, et al. While there are many interesting threads which develop, there are also at least as many thread topics which cause one to occasionally wonder whether Calguns has become a surrogate for Facebook/Twitter with many members.

A little of that is fine and often a welcome relief to the more intense threads dealing with legislation and similar. However, it does open the door to the question you ask. Have we already become more of a 'gun talk/social' community than one with a focus on the civil right? I suspect there's room for both, but there needs to be a divide between posts which educate and posts which are general kibbitzing (sometimes referred to as 'topic branches'); as already observed, the former too often gets lost in the latter these days.

Much of that could be dealt with by people realizing that not every thread/topic demands your input, in whatever form. More could be mitigated with the understanding that if you don't like the topic/opinions being presented in the thread, you are free to simply visit another thread and aren't required to 'stir the pot' with... To a degree, the Moderators already try to exert some effort in this vein; but, they are often too late to the party and either the base information/opinions being sought are buried, the thread has irretrievably taken off in a different direction, the information/opinions being sought are too intertwined with... other things... for the mods to separate efficiently, etc.

But, that brings us back to your first question...

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?

Such divergent opinions, dissonant understandings, potentially conflicting 'goals,' and differing agendas among Calguns members actually represents California gun owners. If you want something from this State, you are looking in the wrong place. Where we need to be looking is to California gun owners and creating a 'common ground' among them vis a vis gun rights in this State. Once you have that, you then have a true voice that the politicians in Sacramento cannot ignore lest they risk their positions as politicians in Sacramento.

I've been reading this site for nearly 12 years; though I only joined in 1/2018. What I used to praise about this site was the information which could be gleaned. Unfortunately, a lot of that has been lost in the last 2 or 3 years; not completely, but substantively buried in many cases. Too many measuring contests, desire to simply post... something, a near 'religious' zeal to excoriate, marginalize, or 'drive off' those disagreed with, and similar far too often becomes the bulk of threads, where the information actually sought ends up being in a half dozen of over a couple hundred posts. That makes the information difficult and tedious to find, especially when search can often be problematic.

If you're going to create 'common ground' among gun owners related to gun rights, then education and persuasion is the key and you have to provide a place where such an environment not only occurs, but is encouraged. To that end, I don't see it so much as the site 'taking a new path' as returning to a site where the emphasis is "Californians Working Together To Preserve Our Freedoms" rather then allowing it to continue 'devolving' into simply another 'social media outlet.'

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 08-20-2019 at 12:58 AM..
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  #44  
Old 08-20-2019, 2:36 AM
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It's not just the ever-tightening restrictions on gun use and ownership from Sacramento Democrats.
It's the whole gambit of Liberal/Progressive hogwash that CA has been inundated with.
Ironically, in the 50 (of 60) years that I lived in CA, I've met very few Leftists. Most are conservative, apathetic, or ignorant of their rights. I don't mean ignorant in an insulting way, they just are unaware.
I was born and raised in the Central Valley until I graduated in the late 70's. The rest of my family was in the Bay Area and we visited every weekend.
Life was good.
Moved to Phoenix, AZ and lived there for 10 years. Life was good, and I was proud to tell people I was from CA.
Then moved back to CA in late 80's and life was ok, but starting to turn.
Patrick Purdy shooting up the Stockton schoolyard was a turning point for the 2A in CA. Things have been spiraling downward since then.
We moved last year, back to AZ for me. Wife and kids had never been here. Not in Phoenix, but in 'very' rural NW AZ. Maybe not so much the two kids that came with us, but they can imagine living cramped in a city (or town) anymore. Nearly everyone here is ex-SoCal, and to the right of me, which is saying a lot.
Sadly, I think CA has to hit rock bottom before the pendulum swings back. And it will.
Unlike Kes, I fought the good fight. But I also want to enjoy myself too. I'm 60 now and I'm now paying the price of my youth. I don't expect to get to the average lifespan.
Though I've moved, I still check on here several times a day. There are SO MANY more posts here than on the AZ equivalent site.
Whichever direction Calguns goes, be patient. The pendulum never stops.

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  #45  
Old 08-20-2019, 4:56 AM
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As most others have already said,I don’t believe the current set of rules is the problem. It’s easy to become discouraged living in this liberal minded state. Just look at which part of the forum gets the most traffic. We most often look to Off Topic for a little entertainment to forget the situation us gun owners find ourselves in. We need to get more involved in raising awareness about gun rights but the question is how. As also pointed out most of us have busy lives providing for our families. We need someone to rally the troops and get us out of our funk so we will do something, anything to make a noise Sacramento will have a hard time ignoring. Maybe this thread will accomplish that.
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  #46  
Old 08-20-2019, 5:17 AM
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  #47  
Old 08-20-2019, 5:20 AM
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[QUOTE=Kestryll;23325811]I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.


I think we need to draft new Laws- that follow common sense.

Bring back enhancements for using a gun or a replica in a crime

Enhancements to shooting a Police officer


We push for federal prosecution too

Try to introduce a template in every state and let the crazies turn down the laws....

I think we need to petition every PIO of law enforcement to provide equal time to people like Eric Garner-

They will talk about the video showing he died but they will not address all the opportunity he had to not die.... Fight the arrest at the courts... don't prevent violence by attacking police.


It should be common sense... but many don't know that when a cop says you are under arrest- you cant reply- you are not going to arrest me...




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  #48  
Old 08-20-2019, 7:48 AM
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I follow Calguns and 4 other 'gun's forums.
Calguns has the most activity BY FAR.
I really don't think Calguns needs to change. I think gun owners need to get back on track.
Calguns is a great tool for doing that.
Gunmageddon was a prime example. Nearly everyone, members and lurkers, knew about it and many stepped up and became active in the movement. But how many other gun owners did we meet than knew nothing about Calguns or Gunmageddon? Without Calguns I would have never known.
I think the best thing Calguns could do is, somehow, become more visible to CA gunowners.

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  #49  
Old 08-20-2019, 7:57 AM
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Calguns is the best. Itís like a public utility.

Iím all for Ďkeeping it realí, but OT has been straying dangerously close to blatant racism/sexism/homophobic views. I donít want censorship but at the same time that is the LAST thing we need the California 2A community associated with, especially with the recent trend in race-motivated shootings. I think itís important to remember that not everyone on this forum is a straight white male... as one myself I definitely make that assumption.
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Old 08-20-2019, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1410 View Post
Calguns is the best. Itís like a public utility.

Iím all for Ďkeeping it realí, but OT has been straying dangerously close to blatant racism/sexism/homophobic views. I donít want censorship but at the same time that is the LAST thing we need the California 2A community associated with, especially with the recent trend in race-motivated shootings. I think itís important to remember that not everyone on this forum is a straight white male... as one myself I definitely make that assumption.
As I've posted more than a few times...

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  #51  
Old 08-20-2019, 8:49 AM
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I agree with a lot that has already been posted. We don’t need to change the rules. I think we need to focus on the things we can change. This state is moving left, but that does not mean the majority of the population wants it that way. It is just what gets fed to them. I know from my personal experience that when I start conversations with “my rights”, they go nowhere. Even with my family. However, when I have a discussion about what those rights mean, in ways they can understand, I get someplace.

For example, I am a competitive shooter, shooting USPSA. When I have written lawmakers, or had discussion with friends, co-workers, etc., about the number of rounds I purchase, I need to use ways they can understand. When I simply say, I shoot about 1000 rounds a month, they look surprised that I “need” that much. However, when I say, compare shooting to golf. If every time you hit the ball you needed a new one, how many golf balls do you need. So, let’s say you play golf every Sunday and shoot about 100. You also go to the driving range once a week to practice. You hit a large bucket of balls (about 250). Well, that’s 1400 balls a month. Let’s say that you can no longer purchase golf balls at reduced prices from the internet and had to buy them at the golf course (about 30% more expensive). Would you want that?

As others have posted, perhaps a place where there are templates for writing on certain topics.

I also think we need to have a place on the forums where we post actual facts about guns. Not right wing or left-wing talking points, or data from less than accurate websites. It is very helpful to have facts to use when having discussions with people with the anti-viewpoints. Take mass shootings for example. The defining factor to become a mass shooting, is 4 people. Or AR is for the original manufacturer, Armalite Rifle. Or what’s the gun show loophole?
How about the fact there is no actual definition of assault rifle or assault weapon, it is simply looks scary, it is not more deadly. I took a stock Ruger 10/22 and showed a picture to several people. I asked if I should own it for target shooting, hunting, etc. The answer was absolutely. I then took a picture of a 10/22 with the AR kit applied. The answer was no, why would you need that gun. I finally, showed the kit and described the actual properties of the gun, the trigger, the barrel, the ability to load rounds from the mag, were exactly the same on both guns. I then explained, having the adjustable stock made it easier for my 13 year old to shoot, then hand it to his sister to shoot. The barrel shroud made it easier to hold with smaller hands.

I think we have a lot of really smart people on this site. We just need to make sure we can leverage their collective knowledge in a meaningful way.
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  #52  
Old 08-20-2019, 8:50 AM
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[QUOTE=hermosabeach;23328027]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.


I think we need to draft new Laws- that follow common sense.

Bring back enhancements for using a gun or a replica in a crime

Enhancements to shooting a Police office.

"Common sense" gun laws began to disappear 30 years ago. Not sure with a Demo-run legislature and Demo-elected executive branch, how you can do it? California voters won't let it happen. LOOK AT HISTORY...Are gun laws loosening or becoming more restrictive???


We push for federal prosecution too

Try to introduce a template in every state and let the crazies turn down the laws....

Every state doesn't need a template...the majority of states don't have a California-planned template and definitely do not want one.

I think we need to petition every PIO of law enforcement to provide equal time to people like Eric Garner-

They will talk about the video showing he died but they will not address all the opportunity he had to not die.... Fight the arrest at the courts... don't prevent violence by attacking police.

It should be common sense... but many don't know that when a cop says you are under arrest- you cant reply- you are not going to arrest me...

It IS common sense in the majority of states.
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  #53  
Old 08-20-2019, 9:14 AM
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Thank you for reflecting on calguns. It's a great community but some introspection is due. I have two topics I'd like to share.

1) This is CAL -- GUNS. Not Republican Guns. Not United States Guns. The only 2 things that seem permanent here is that it is a gathering place about guns and California.

California votes largely democratic. It has relatively high numbers of immigrants, LGBTetc and even extreme far-leftists. It is politically dominated by its urban centers all of which tend to historically vote democrat which is near universally anti-gun. There is an undertone of resentment here but... this is CALIFORNIA -- GUNS. Shunning the majority of the state and then complaining about it is a pointless exercise. This is the state we are in. Embrace it and move forward.

2) The idea of squashing opposing political parties is completely insane. See #1 above but also: In my eyes, the political establishment is the opposition of the people. R/D doesn't matter. Neither party is seeking to empower individuals. The system is more corrupt than it has been in a long time.

Despite the divisive rhetoric I have faith in my fellow citizens. The vast, vast majority are good, honest, upstanding people. From all walks of life. Rich/poor. Immigrant or native-born. Religious or not.

If there is any political focus here I would suggest it be towards a pro-democracy movement. What is that? Supporting change which empowers all citizens equally and removes power from the rich who currently wield out-sized power. Unfortunately most of these end up being partisan issues (which will always be the case -- with change someone will almost always gain or lose). The changes I'm referring to are like:
- publicly funded elections (aka the election-before-the-election is determined by the rich right now)
- end partisan gerrymandering
- ranked-choice voting and pooled districts to greatly increase representation (e.g. 3rd party candidates are possible and won't be spoilers)
- reform to the congressional seat -> lobbyist cycle
- voting reform; everyone should have equal access to vote



More specifically for myself: I don't want to be a part of a community which feels it needs to ostracize, disempower or disenfranchise another group in order to get its way. Without the powers-that-be pulling the strings (politically or in the media) and sewing discord I trust that regular citizens would band together and come to the conclusion that firearms are simply a tool (a powerful tool) in empowering individuals.
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Old 08-20-2019, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.

There's no way to deny or candy coat the fact that we're in a bad place. As gun owners we're a 'safe target' for politicians, our rights are teetering on the edge of non-existence and frankly unless we're talking about social media where everyone's a 'no compromise' activist we're about as silent as a whipped dog who doesn't want to be hit again.

We've had some truly tragic events recently, Gilroy, El Paso and Dayton, and while we as gun owners mourn the senseless loss of life the politicians who see our freedoms as something 'in the way' of their ability to control our lives use these tragedies as stepping stones towards their desire for a disarmed America.

We talk a good game when we have a win, Freedom Week was great and everyone was all ready to go all Gadsden over their new magazines, but what happened a week or two later? The big discussions were over which companies hadn't delivered yet and what we'd been 'lucky enough to score'.

When it comes right down to it maybe 5-8 out of every 100 gun owners is willing to do anything more than send in a membership check and then complain that nothing is being done.

Yes, organizations like CRPA and NRA are fighting hard for us in the courts and despite the super-majority the anti-civil rights Democrats hold in California the CRPA and NRA have full time lobbyists in Sacramento trying to prevent bad bills from becoming bad laws. But the real question becomes is all we can do is let them carry our water and hope they win?

There was a time, actually not that long ago, when members of Calguns were engaged and involved in efforts to fight for our rights. We closed down the capitol switchboards, overloaded their email servers and flooded their offices with letters. We had a voice, we used it and win or lose we never let them forget we were here, watching, voting and fighting.

Things have changed, there's no denying it. The laws we face are worse than ever, many of us are 'represented' by the same Democrat anti-civil rights politicians that propose eliminating our Constitutional rights and it's very reasonable to be doubtful that they will listen to us at all. The question is do we give up and stay silent because they won't listen or do we become louder regardless of whether they listen or not?

I've stated my position numerous times, I'm going to fight until I'm dead and I don't care who listens or doesn't I'm going to yell as loud as I can. While I do think that we hit a point of diminishing returns a while ago in regards to contacting our Legislators I still think it's useful to do so to remind them we haven't gone away or given up if nothing else.

I think the future of our fight is twofold, litigation via orgs like CRPA and NRA especially now that the face of the 9th is being changed by new appointments and by working through the electoral process. Yes, we're outnumbered but there is still a LOT of us here and people are voting less each election which means win or lose our voice can stand out as something to be reckoned with. We're not going to change things quickly or everywhere all at once, we need to try to make changes locally first.


As I said I've stated my thoughts numerous times but my thoughts aren't what count, your thoughts are what I need to hear.

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
I've always tried to focus Calguns as a place where all are welcome and with a goal of working for our 2A rights, I've tried to keep Calguns workplace and family friendly so we could reach the next generation of gun owners and 2A supporters, I've tried to keep Calguns open to all points of view, Republican, Democrat, pro-2A and anti-2A with all having a voice as long as it is a civil voice.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path? Don't fix what's not broken.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party? No. Welcoming others strengthens us.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here? No. The younger crowd should be able to handle your reasonable requirements. That said, nothing wrong with a little poke here and there.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A? Are you nuts? No.


Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community? Now you're fricking looneytunes. NO!




We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.

I think it might be time to either reengage or find a new direction to focus on and since it is this community, not me, that built Calguns in to what it is I want to hear from you what path you think we should choose.
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Old 08-20-2019, 9:37 AM
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Kestryll, I am happy with the way Calguns is.

This site is quite diverse with it's different forums and I can't think of anything I would add.

We are kept informed about 2a issues in State and National arenas.
There are informative CRPA forums as well.

I think that as gun enthusiasts we can promote our view of gun issues with folks that we see and talk to.
There is so much FUD out there in peoples mind that come from the agenda driven media.

I have mentioned Calguns.net to a lot of people that are ignorant about gun issues.

Trying to shift the public view about guns is way larger than Calguns.net.

Thanks for what you do here.
Much appreciated.

Last edited by Rizzo; 08-20-2019 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 08-20-2019, 9:51 AM
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I vote to keep things family friendly as they are now. However it would nice to see some type of sticky as a repository for firearms facts and figures vs. what gets spewed by the media and people that have no knowledge of the facts.

It could be used as a counterpoint library when others out there (not usually on CGN) spout off some outright misinformation and outright lies regarding firearms.

In turn I also agree with what someone else already mentioned. Make CGN a paid membership forum. That would benefit everyone all around.
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Old 08-20-2019, 9:58 AM
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In turn I also agree with what someone else already mentioned. Make CGN a paid membership forum. That would benefit everyone all around.
I understand the spirit driven to make this a paid membership forum, however I believe this would be a dis-service to the younger crowd including college students. While the free membership makes it easy for the lowbrows to infect the website, it still shows a spirit for everyone else to express their voice from time to time and I think that is paramount.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:14 AM
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Focus on Gun Rights and Gun Rights ONLY. Do not promote the GOP - which admittedly has a vastly better record on this matter, but far from perfect - as being "The party of Freedom" as they are NOT any more than the Democrats are. Only a fool believes any politician.

Reach out to those who are not right wing Christians, and for Goddess' sake, stop thumping the Bible! Stop the "Bible-speak", and using outdated words like "mock" that should have been left in the 19th century. This is, or should be, Cal GUNS, not Cal BIBLE, regardless of what anyone's individual religion may or may not be.

I'm not saying this is "offensive" - it takes a lot more than that to "offend" me - I'm saying its divisive and non-inclusive and is DRIVING AWAY POTENTIAL ALLIES. The NRA is starting to have this exact same issue, with the same results - their internal problems not withstanding. If people don't feel welcome, they certainly won't ally with you.

I go to a shooting event every year in the deep south, and there are NONE of these issues there. The result: 3 Pagans, 2 Liberals, and at least 1 atheist join all the Christians every year and we all have a grand old time - because everybody goes out of their way to keep it focused on guns, shooting, food, and camaraderie and leave both the politics and their religion at home where it belongs. We all agree on gun rights, and that's all we need to agree on. Frankly, that isn't the atmosphere here, and I'd guess, not so much at California shooting events either; although I'll give the latter the benefit of the doubt as I wasn't involved when I was a Californian.
You said it better than I could in type , if face to face this is what I meant by my post. There is so much hate/bigotry/religion and racism posted here it scares away a lot of people , TRUST ME i've tried to get some to join. People who own guns are NOT just Republican Pro Life Christians

AND they WANT to be included ! They want to help too. But they fear the rhetoric. I stay quiet because I look and think different than most here and no i'm not a Democrat. When I first joined up I gave a member here around $400 worth of ammo FREE and didn't even know him. I did it because he was/is a gun owner and I don't shoot .20g anymore. We talked and I knew it was going to a good place.

I didn't care his religion or political stance , haven't talked him since and it's still all good. See where i'm going here ? We ALL own guns , WE are a tribe , WE need each other. But again like my military analogy before some people will just never get it even though WE need each other.

Last edited by M60A1Rise; 08-20-2019 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:21 AM
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As far as format, Ilike Calguns the way it is. I'm fortunate to have interacted with so many savvy firearms owners who have provided me with free training and insight.

I enjoy the political banter and have no problem that we have liberal members where who provide a counterpoint to discussion. The 2A is a natural right which transcends politics. I believe we each have to be more tolerant and listen to each other. If I would change anything about Calguns, it would be that were harder on those who are I tolerant, name-call, incapable of discussion without devolving it to the gutter. We should always "go high." The fact is, to win this fight in California we NEED Democrats/liberals on our side. Conservatives no longer have the numbers. How do we bridge this ideological divide? With action. We need to use Calguns to better organize. We need outreach. It will take a commitment from those who are most passionate to get the word out. We need a cohesive message. I believe we have the place where that can be developed.


I feel like Calguns neglects the middle of the state, where activism might be stronger, because the forum seems naturally separated via NorCal/SoCal. What if we had teams of activists that were Calguns sanctioned who would go to events and represent Calguns? I know there are some at the OC Gun show but there are opportunities at county fairs and other locations right in the middle of the state. I'll volunteer to lead the effort.

My son and I wear our Calguns and Zombie Shoot gear daily. We engage in discussions with non-members about checking out the site and how it is the front line for firearm activism and education in California. I think all of us who want to see the site grow and our rights protected, would be willing to do the same.

On Zombie Shoot - we need people to come and make it a rallying point. Like the Super Bowl of California firearms activism. We don't just shoot but we get together, refine our message, meet like-minded folks and celebrate our freedoms. We'd love to see the head janitor there. It would mean a lot, even if it's just for the day.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we donít need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.
Wowww CG --- Except the first line, I never been banned ... I do fear it That's ^^^ almost word for word what I wanted to say, but since you write better than me ... I'll just 2'nd your post.

Nice job Sir
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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Default my response exactly

This person answered each of these questions as I would for what it is worth.

I'd like to know what calguns.net is going to do politically if anything? No offense to the many who give money to lawyers and file law suits but I feel the industry can (and should) fund that; I'm interested in winning elections again. Is anyone going to work on that?

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Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
I'm going to look at your "questions" as either a "YES" or "NO" questionnaire.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Respectfully
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:07 AM
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Citadel captured most all my thoughts in Post #5 as did ojisan in Post #25

This been driving me nuts for years.

Howcum we do not present CALGUNS.NET as a separate entity in Sacramento?

We want to be an Activist org but we skip a Primary and possibly effective course of action by not showing our numbers in Sac. A large voting bloc of Californian citizenry present at various hearings in Sacramento along with or in support of the NRA and CRPA guys would have to have some affect on the Committee members.

We did it once a few years ago with Walter White leading the charge, many Calgunners present and voiced their views and all wearing a simple "NO" tag. The placed was loaded with anti gun types bused in for the hearing on a group of proposed anti gun laws, a package deal I forgot the name used for it.

Why is it only the NRA and the CRPA are allowed to represent gun owners at the various Committee meetings in Sac? Two entities, why not three enties and a herd of Californians present to state their views on proposed Legislation? It would be a visible presence more effective than 2 Lobbyists. GOC shows up but he seems to be poo pooed by the NRA and CRPA, maybe thats changed as I am out of touch with this anymore.

If we can stop a proposed Bill from reaching the floor of the Senate or Assembly it does not get voted on for Yay or Nay into law. Why wait for a Law to become effective and THEN put up a fight in the slow moving Courts? Why not start the fight in the Committee hearings? Yes there is the Gut and Amend route these yahoos take bypassing procedures.

We have 306,657 Members with 21,592 Active Members, surely out of that mix we can get a few folks to appear at these Committee hearings to voice their concerns and maybe slow down the anti gun crap. The anti-gun folks are almost always present at these hearings in numbers but we are not. Why?

Letters are nice and phone calls are easy but a warm body staring at these potlickers is far more effective. Face to Face folks will typically be cordial and listen. After all these years and still only 2 maybe 3 pro gun lobbyist's show up to fight for OUR rights, howcum we, as in CALGUNS.NET and Californian Citizens, are not there also?

Only a few Committees are typically used in Gun Legislation; Safety -Appropriations- Health though I'm sure they will figure ways around this to avoid pro gun representation.
Senate Committee Hearings Assembly Committee Hearings

The Forums current rules are good and proven.

The Moderators are doing a Superb job of monitoring this site keeping it civil and organized, Thank you all.

Kestryll, I think loading up a few of the Moderators in your truck and going out to few events around the state every now and again might very well pump some adrenaline into the heart of this site. I suspect even create more active Activists.




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Old 08-20-2019, 11:27 AM
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Calguns would have a very different feel if OT posts did not appear in the "New Posts" section. People who want to talk about racial stereotypes, food, bodily functions, life in other states, fake news, and MILFs could still follow along in the OT section, but people who want to follow posts about guns and gun rights in California could navigate easily in an uncluttered, family-friendly "New Posts" section. I honestly think you'd get A LOT more people from the California gun community to spend time and contribute here on Calguns, and eventually this would become a place that could help effect real change in this state.
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:45 PM
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I think No, Calguns isn't broken and isn't in need of fixing. Unless of course your goal is to get more traffic. I think the gun community is shrinking, people are afraid to be associated with guns on any sort of media, especially with red flag laws and companies searching social media for job offers.

I think the biggest problem is I think we as a gun culture have started eating our own. We attack eachother over small differences and sail anyone who doesn't agree with us up the river. It's become a community of intolerance and senseless attacks.

I remember when I first started on Calguns, the community was this friendly helpful place. I still remember pouring over the pages night after night, seeing guns I didn't even know existed. I remember seeing my first Czechmate being sold in 2 seconds for $4500.... now I've seen CZ SP01 Tactical sit for weeks at good pricing.

I was super nervous the night I proposed to my now wife.... I threw a post up and got an astounding amount of good luck posts... now we're months away from our first child. It was truly a great feeling knowing Calguns and the community were there and rooting for me. Those were the calguns days in my mind.

My first AR lower is a calguns bear JD lower. Calguns has deep love from my heart.... I dont feel that is the case here with many. It feels more like a bunch of college roommates who dont really like eachother all trying to share the family room and decide what to watch on tv but no one can decide.

I dont know how many threads about helping someone I've jumped in to only to be harrassed and downright insulted. The Calguns community has certainly changed. Grumpy temperamental posts and straight personal attacks. I have pretty thick skin so I'm not directly bothered by the loser posting the nasty comments, just more or less saddened that this place used to be a haven for gun lovers alike and we all helped eachother out. I just took a calgunner shooting the other day, he had never hit SBR&G and wanted to shoot some of my guns.... I took him out and paid for the ammo. That's the Calguns I miss, the community that rallied together.

I've learned not to even bother giving my two cents or trying to offer help on majority of threads because the amount of uneducated know it alls just jump on the bandwagon and the thread goes to crap. That's really my only complaint. As the days go on, i find my self less and less checking the calguns pages, Calguns has lost it's heart and soul in my opinion.... and for that reason I some times dont even log in for days at time.
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Old 08-20-2019, 4:13 PM
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My late father was a lifetime union member, and a firearms owner. This kind of comment is "exhibit A" of EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
And how many times did he raise his hand in the union hall and demand that the union support candidates who support the 2A the way the founding fathers framed it and to demand the union not support the kinds of politicians we have today that trounce 2A rights?

Yeah, silence.
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Old 08-20-2019, 4:52 PM
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I see several issues from my point of view.

1. California is a BIG place and most of us are is far spread out itís hard to gather us for any meaningful action, like a protest or public demonstration. Not that everyone would be willing to do that. I would, but I wouldnít want people to know who I am. I choose to keep my digital life separate from my real life. If there was a local rally, I might show up, but I wouldnít let anyone know who I was ďaccount wiseĒ. For me itís a safety and anonymity thing. I foresee a time where we could be targeted by groups like Antifa if the federal government doesnít reign them in and liberals keep encouraging them.
2. That said, I think restructuring this site based on region would be helpful. Iíve seen it on other sites.
3. I canít stress this enough. I think we all need to remember this.... the reason we are losing this fight, isnít because we arenít doing enough, itís because we live in a super majority of moronic Uber-liberals that hate the RKBA more than anything. Second only maybe to us. Plus MOST PEOPLE in the state of California are full-on asleep. They donít know whatís on the ballot let alone the actual implications of proposals, measures and other laws our lawmakers pass. Theyíre too busy doing other things to care. Castigating ourselves for ďnot doing enoughĒ as the reason why weíre losing this fight in CA is an error IMO.
4. Yes the CALGUNS OT LOUNGE is absurd, idiotic, and childish at times. But I love it. Itís half the reason of not more I come here. I enjoy talking about all kinds of things with people that are like me politically and with a similar view. I donít find that online in too many other places.

Just my 2cents.
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Old 08-20-2019, 5:55 PM
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Yes. I think calguns.net is the best 2A / gun forum in the world, thus, I don't see a need to fundamentally transform it. This is probably a good time to say thank you to Kestryll, which I've not done before, for creating and managing this forum. it's a testament that so many of us that have left California are still here.

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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No, political parties are ephemeral and polarizing by nature; party before principle really bothers me. Stick to 2A issues and general firearm topics.

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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
Big time no! I think the moderation here is best in class, its lightweight, and effective. Please don't let this become another 4chan.

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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No, with proper subforums I can pick and choose what to spend time reading. I focus on pro-2A, but have very much enjoyed things like the marketplace in the past when I was actually living in CA.

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Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No, if two people can't have a civil discussion even when they vehemently disagree with one another, then the discussion itself has no value. The occasional and harmless trolls can be easily ignored IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
The fight is real, we are on the edge of losing our rights... the fight is now. There may not be much "gun talk" in the future to worry about.
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Old 08-20-2019, 6:40 PM
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Paid site? How about this, OT becomes a CC prepaid forum where a post costs $0.10 with the proceeds going first to CGN then CRPA, NRA, direct support of lawsuits or other worthy causes. $50 bucks gets you in which gives you 500 posts.

But all in all CGN is fine as is. The trend of enthusiasm has been met with the trend of a long slog in the Courts. It didn't take 2 weeks but perhaps it will be 50 yrs. I'm already 50 yrs into guns whats another 50 yrs for those who are new to guns? That is the trend we are on, 1 hard fight after another. I still check the 2A forums and its pretty much the same, hoping for an injunction, hoping for a ruling, very little to be enthused about. There were a lot of promises made on here after Heller/McDonald but the truth has been born out and it is not the case. I believe those who expected a easy path did not understand that nothing is easy. If we had victory after victory then this forum would be different today. That is not the case.
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Old 08-20-2019, 6:46 PM
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Alright, since you asked, I'll stick my neck out this ONCE, then leave it be. I'm only saying this because I've felt this way for years, and again, you asked! Probably entirely too wordy for my own good, but here goes:

I have left California as of 2-1/2 years ago, with all that that entails, including watching the California lunacy spread like the disease it is. Blah, blah, blah - which has little to do with the questions asked.

HOWEVER, I feel that this is going to generate some eye rolls, and that's part of the problem AS I SEE IT.

When I *was* a California resident, I thought "Cal Guns" was divisive, contentious, non-inclusive, and completely ineffectual. You need to have EVERY SINGLE CALIFORNIA GUN OWNING RESIDENT ON YOUR SIDE. This forum is full of right wing rhetoric, which is, to me and many others, JUST AS BAD AS THE LEFT. The ONLY thing the GOP has going for it is that it isn't the Democrats. Both of the major parties are parties of slavery, they both want to control the populace and suppress those they don't like. The only difference is the what and the who of it.

Focus on Gun Rights and Gun Rights ONLY. Do not promote the GOP - which admittedly has a vastly better record on this matter, but far from perfect - as being "The party of Freedom" as they are NOT any more than the Democrats are. Only a fool believes any politician.

Reach out to those who are not right wing Christians, and for Goddess' sake, stop thumping the Bible! Stop the "Bible-speak", and using outdated words like "mock" that should have been left in the 19th century. This is, or should be, Cal GUNS, not Cal BIBLE, regardless of what anyone's individual religion may or may not be.

I'm not saying this is "offensive" - it takes a lot more than that to "offend" me - I'm saying its divisive and non-inclusive and is DRIVING AWAY POTENTIAL ALLIES. The NRA is starting to have this exact same issue, with the same results - their internal problems not withstanding. If people don't feel welcome, they certainly won't ally with you.

I go to a shooting event every year in the deep south, and there are NONE of these issues there. The result: 3 Pagans, 2 Liberals, and at least 1 atheist join all the Christians every year and we all have a grand old time - because everybody goes out of their way to keep it focused on guns, shooting, food, and camaraderie and leave both the politics and their religion at home where it belongs. We all agree on gun rights, and that's all we need to agree on. Frankly, that isn't the atmosphere here, and I'd guess, not so much at California shooting events either; although I'll give the latter the benefit of the doubt as I wasn't involved when I was a Californian.

Now if this is "mocking" something or someone, well one last time, you asked. I have spoken, and will speak no more.
I probably am politically a polar opposite to Zorba on many issues but he has a good point.

If I had to describe myself politically, it would be as a classic liberal, just like our Founding Fathers. I was raised as a JFK democrat but I cannot be part of the democratic party as it has become over the past 40 years. I am an evangelical Christian but strongly believe the government has to stay out of religion, that just creates all sorts of problems. I have always had concerns that the evangelical Christians hold on the Republican right has hindered the Republican Party from attracting more moderate and libertarian thinking Americans.

When it comes to the 2nd Amendment, the refrain of a vote for a democrat is a vote for gun control pushes away democratic voters who are gun owners but have their reasons for not voting for a Republican candidate. We are never going to affect a change in CA by isolating the many democratic gun owners. This state becomes increasingly democratic daily. Ignoring democratic gun owners will cause us to loose the gun control war and it is a war.

I was for gun-control 30 years ago. I was also a registered democrat at that time. The pro-NRA, pro-2A, pro-republicans in my family that were always ranting at family gathers just pushed me further into the gun control camp and caused me to become more staunchly democratic. It got to a point where those family members were excluded from holidays because they were always talking politics and one in particular took it so seriously we had to call the police to have him arrested because he would assault people who told him the NRA was bad and the Republicans were bad. That helped him catch a DV violent conviction and loose his FFL (he was a home based FFL as a side business).

You now what changed my views, listening to people who spoke with the facts and not with emotions. Then I did my own research. At first it was to show the pro-2A people were wrong and soon I realized the gun control propaganda I believed was a lie. I eventually became a NRA Life Member. I also registered as a Republic and I learned that my mom, who had been a democrat most of her life, registered as a Republican a year before I did.

My grandfather died as a registered democrat even though he never agreed with their policies. He always said the democrats are for the little people and the Republicans are for the rich. He picked that up as a child growing up in the depression and it never left him. He liked Ronald Reagan, but would not vote for him because he was a democrat deserter.

My wife, a life long democrat, did something I thought would never happen. A month ago she registered as a Republican. She finally had it with the socialist push of the democratic party. She made the change after doing her own research and reading a few books by economists and other commentators she respects on how Trump's policies have helped the US economy and how the continued policies of the democrats would have continued an economic downward spiral. She refused to vote for Hillary after the deplorable comment.

Many of the people I know are slowly changing from the democratic party to at least independent, not because of negative rhetoric but because they took time to research themselves. They are not getting their news from CNN or Fox. They read books or look for sources on the Internet they consider reliable. They believe their is no unbiased news source so they ignore the daily news completely.

I do not participate in CalGuns as much as I used to because the dialog is getting much more one sided. There is a definite feel of what political view is accepted and those with a differing view are definitely not treated well and many times are baited in hopes they catch a ban hammer.

I have come close a couple of times and received two warnings. I put myself on time out.

If we really want to fight for the 2A we have to attract the under 40 crowd to the shooting sports. The demographics shows they are mostly democratic and mostly not religious. They will run from any place with a heavy republican presence or religious presence. What I mean by a heavy presence is when they are told they are wrong for being a democrat or being not Christian or for being atheist.

We can have those sub-forums, but we need a place where they can come and feel welcomed and we can learn from each other. Rather than say UBC do not work, which most of us know is true, try asking how will UBC reduce gun violence?

I spend most of my time on another forum with many other former CalGunners who have felt they were no longer welcomed here. We have had some success using the soft approach.

When a gun control person answers about UBC, I then ask what about people who buy on the black market, or people who make their own with a background check. I keep this up, with how do we stop people from buying who bypass the system. Eventually they go for the ban then I ask about what about criminals who still get guns in spite of the ban through illegal means. Eventually I get a few to realize, gun laws only affect the law abiding and criminals will always be criminals. Those are the aha moments that help change hearts and minds, not the short retorts that are meant to cut people off.

When I go shooting at my LGR, I shoot with democrats, republicans, independents, Christians, atheists, buddhists, and people with many other differences. We all like shooting. Then we start conversations about the stupidity of gun laws and what can we do to help change them.

Now if you make joining the NRA to a requirement to be a part of CalGuns, you will keep away people who do not agree with the NRA. That will reduce the activity on CalGuns even more.

I do have one foot out of this state, and it is not just gun laws. It is the quality of life and government interference in my life. I know what it is like to live free. I used to do that in CA, I am that old. My health is not so great and I am just tired of fighting.
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Old 08-20-2019, 7:28 PM
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I'm not going to reply much for a bit, I want to hear your thoughts and opinions without skewing them by my input. However I do want to address one point, the concept of Calguns becoming a paid site.

Years ago, 2006 to be exact, I made a promise to this community that Calguns would always be free to join and free to post.
We do have voluntary Contributors who get a few perks but no one is charged to be a member or to post here.
Even if I wanted to make it a pay to join site I can not, I am bound by my promise and I'm okay with that. I knew that when I made the promise and I agree it would limit our reach.

Okay, I just wanted to get that out there, back to your regularly scheduled thread...
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Old 08-20-2019, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I'm not going to reply much for a bit, I want to hear your thoughts and opinions without skewing them by my input. However I do want to address one point, the concept of Calguns becoming a paid site.

Years ago, 2006 to be exact, I made a promise to this community that Calguns would always be free to join and free to post.
We do have voluntary Contributors who get a few perks but no one is charged to be a member or to post here.
Even if I wanted to make it a pay to join site I can not, I am bound by my promise and I'm okay with that. I knew that when I made the promise and I agree it would limit our reach.

Okay, I just wanted to get that out there, back to your regularly scheduled thread...
A class act. Thank you.
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Old 08-20-2019, 7:46 PM
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You a a good person Kestryll - thank you
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  #73  
Old 08-20-2019, 8:07 PM
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I love this place the way it is; a civil, diverse and extremely informative location for people whose lives are invested in our great state.

I am probably not the only person here who is left-leaning in the modern political climate so far as many social issues are concerned, as well as in the meaningful regulation of industry and commerce to protect the environment and commons, but who is otherwise a law-abiding constitutionalist that understands the vital importance of our bill of rights, and the overwhelming creep of violations/encroachments being made from all angles (federal, state, local, corporate, person to person). We need to work to create a more perfect union!

Letís keep CalGuns THE ultimate resource for 2A advocates and freedom loving individuals in the Golden State! Civil Discourse and unbiased sources of information and commerce are in short order in the world today - letís continue to grow CalGuns and allow it to flourish as an epicenter for the free mind and free civilization!
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Old 08-20-2019, 9:18 PM
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Iíd like to see CalGuns stay the way it is. A Ďcatch-allí forum where people can post NSFW pictures or talk never does any good. Just focus and simplify; keep only relevant forums.

As others have echoed, we need to reach out to the youth. However, we should also reach out to the ignorant (this is not meant in a negative way.) Frankly, there are a large number of people that donít know about firearms and I was one of them. My father and grand father had guns, but the rest of my family (especially my mother) is so anti-gun that my father and grandfather never shared even the basics of firearms with me. It wasnít until I was much older (34) did I buy my first firearm. I can count on ONE hand how many times Iíve seen my father AND grandfather with a firearm in their hands.

My recommendation, we need to organize inclusive public events. One where the barriers of entry are REALLY low for non-firearms people. Once you start talking ĎNRA member ship requiredí or anything like that, youíre discouraging people from engaging. We need to attract the curious and reduce ALL friction.

Iím suggesting something like a new-shooters firearms experience event. Volunteers/gun stores could bring firearms for new shooters to try. Safety instructors volunteer time to teach basics of firearm safety. Ammo manufactures can sponsor ammo. Other manufacturers can have displays to help cover the cost of a venue. Admission should be REALLY low; like $5-10 low. The whole event should be marketed to the new shooter, not existing ones. Again, the intent is to get new people to understand and experience our culture.
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Old 08-20-2019, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
Kestryll, I am happy with the way Calguns is.

This site is quite diverse with it's different forums and I can't think of anything I would add.

We are kept informed about 2a issues in State and National arenas.
There are informative CRPA forums as well.

I think that as gun enthusiasts we can promote our view of gun issues with folks that we see and talk to.
There is so much FUD out there in peoples mind that come from the agenda driven media.

I have mentioned Calguns.net to a lot of people that are ignorant about gun issues.

Trying to shift the public view about guns is way larger than Calguns.net.

Thanks for what you do here.
Much appreciated.
#METOO... I like what you have here Kes and wouldnít change a thing. Sure we have opinions and personalities which I donít agree with, but that is healthy (or at least tolerable for some).

I get great gun information, and much of my current news flashes, and the content is quite diverse.

As stated, thanks for what you have provided and for what you do here.
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  #76  
Old 08-21-2019, 4:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoyfulJoker View Post
As it is , itís mostly people lost in their head and you have to wade through a lot of poop to find useful information. Itís already a forum where people stuck in angry thought patterns jump down anyoneís throat who isnít a dogmatic gundamentalist. People addicted to outrage are coming to every social media platform and either looking to find something to be angry about or get others angry about. Itís unhealthy.

I got an email from CRPA about a meeting not too far from me. People are much more polite , less angry and constructive in person than on an anonymous forum. Maybe , Regional groups can meet to compare notes on what works and what doesnít for gun rights.

When we organized our Neighborhood Watch , at first it was on line and people just posted rants , took everything personally , and nothing happened . The people eager to criticize never showed up to do anything. So we changed it. In person meetings only. It was an amazing difference . The *******s and complainers never showed up. We had a core group and we met with other groups and officials and learned what worked and what didnít . We transformed not just our neighborhood but helped surrounding neighborhoods. We donít text or email but to post meeting topics and times. Everything is discussed face to face. Old school but the results have been great.

Iím sure more would get done in person and comparing notes with people who have had success with 2A rights than just online . Group consensus is rough, especially with egoís and those who have lost their resilience to encountering things they donít like or agree with.
This, more in person meetups.
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  #77  
Old 08-21-2019, 7:46 AM
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Numbers,

Someone posted some numbers above that there are 21,000 active users. Real active is probably 2,100? I don't know what it is but it made me think.

What if Cal Guns dot Net adopted a Congressional, State Senate and State Assembly candidate every two years. Just 1 each. Three races. It became the sites mission to win those 3 races with money, volunteers and banging social media in favor of the candidates hard. I dare say you could have a primary like contest on the site for all those running to become one of the chosen three - it'd probably recruit more members though I suspect it would come with disdain from those who wouldn't be selected. Hopefully we can win 3 races every year and out gun rights be better for it.
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  #78  
Old 08-21-2019, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M76 View Post
Perhaps require a NRA/CPRA membership in order to join CGN?
Not singling you out, as a number of members here have made this same suggestion (you were just the first ).

As somewhat logical as it seems on the face of it, we can't place this requirement on new members. How many posts have we seen from new folks asking advice on buying their first gun ... or where to shoot ... or even ... "how do I get started?" I guarantee none of those people were NRA members before buying their first firearm.

We need to be active participants in expanding our numbers, and requiring NRA/CPRA creds will not do that.

Now ... before the warriors come here and ask "what do you do to get new shooters/members" ... I am a marksmanship and skeet group leader for a 4H club. I get several new shooters each year.

Now ... there is a real problem with some ideas for the "interpretation" of, or "solutions" to pending legislation being spied upon by folks who don't agree with our lifestyles. I am certainly for creating a sub-forum which is strictly devoted to discussions on how to creatively stay within the law (i.e., think bullet button, featureless, and other solutions we came up with in the past). For this sub-forum, I would recommend that members must have at least 750 posts or are verified vendors.
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  #79  
Old 08-21-2019, 9:55 AM
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This is probably the best gun forum in the country. There is a reason for that.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil right
No
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  #80  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:05 PM
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I view Calguns as a haven away from the liberal media and can see both sides of arguments but because of my Christian upbring, morals and values, tend to vote right.
Now, having said that, if Calguns were to go milk toast and go towards the center or left, it would alienate the true 2nd ammendment patriots while catering to the pro 2nd ammendment liberals who vote away their own rights.
I'd keep Calguns the way it is.
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