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  #121  
Old 10-19-2008, 10:58 PM
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Well since no comments were made about who won or why, it really doesn't make sense that you would take it personally. If you shot well, be satisfied with that. No one is taking anything away from any of the shooters. It's Bruce and the match itself that we all have a beef with.
We aren't upset because we didn't win, were upset because of all the other reasons that we've made abundantly clear.
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  #122  
Old 10-19-2008, 11:04 PM
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Actually, a comment was made. But I digress. I don't have the inclination or energy to keep any kind of internet conflict brewing. Have a good one.
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  #123  
Old 10-19-2008, 11:04 PM
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You earned it FX.
The folks who were 'that' unhappy should've said something at that point instead of spending the rest of the afternoon being upset and perhaps building up resentment.
Krell's been crucified over this one class. Of all the participants there, I recall seeing only a few at his other classes, of which there are many. He's been instrumental in keeping Angeles Range open in a hostile environment. He's provided shooters of every skill a 'class' from beginners to advanced in the handgun, carbine, shotgun and (while this 'rifle' competition was not exemplary) rifle.
He's active in the 'Los Angeles' political field in that he confronts the gun grabbers in person and has done so in open debate. He's been decent to almost all the folks who've I've seen interact with him BUT I will agree he can be 'more' than abrupt.
From the number of views and responses there will be many who think all his classes are represented by these several who, however you look at it, were unhappy. We've got few enough reasonably priced and safely run ranges and classes in S. Cal and keelhauling someone who made a good effort at setting up a 'difficult' field of fire won't increase that number.
I watched all the hits, each one. Several shooters were exemplary out to the 850-900 yard target and in the wind. I think that those who didn't like the shoot should say so but the 'personal' attacks and harshness of those comments does nothing to improve the day or create an educational give and take. All the name calling does is make shooters look like reactionaries who 'eat [shoot] their own'. Just what the libs call us.
In the end the only thing this has done has lessened the communities viability to those who are 'new' and made factions out of people who like to shoot.
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  #124  
Old 10-20-2008, 6:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonedoc View Post
In the end the only thing this has done has lessened the communities viability to those who are 'new' and made factions out of people who like to shoot.
This has strengthened our community. When weasels like Bruce come in and tout this match as the be all, end all of "sniper" matches, and charge 100 bucks for the joke, we warn others. I was warned about this match and Bruce's false claims, but I didn't listen. Now, I want want to strengthen the community by letting everyone know that he's ripped us off and doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Thats become painfully obvious to all involved.
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  #125  
Old 10-20-2008, 6:56 AM
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You earned it FX.
The folks who were 'that' unhappy should've said something at that point instead of spending the rest of the afternoon being upset and perhaps building up resentment.
Krell's been crucified over this one class. Of all the participants there, I recall seeing only a few at his other classes, of which there are many. He's been instrumental in keeping Angeles Range open in a hostile environment. He's provided shooters of every skill a 'class' from beginners to advanced in the handgun, carbine, shotgun and (while this 'rifle' competition was not exemplary) rifle.
He's active in the 'Los Angeles' political field in that he confronts the gun grabbers in person and has done so in open debate. He's been decent to almost all the folks who've I've seen interact with him BUT I will agree he can be 'more' than abrupt.
From the number of views and responses there will be many who think all his classes are represented by these several who, however you look at it, were unhappy. We've got few enough reasonably priced and safely run ranges and classes in S. Cal and keelhauling someone who made a good effort at setting up a 'difficult' field of fire won't increase that number.
I watched all the hits, each one. Several shooters were exemplary out to the 850-900 yard target and in the wind. I think that those who didn't like the shoot should say so but the 'personal' attacks and harshness of those comments does nothing to improve the day or create an educational give and take. All the name calling does is make shooters look like reactionaries who 'eat [shoot] their own'. Just what the libs call us.
In the end the only thing this has done has lessened the communities viability to those who are 'new' and made factions out of people who like to shoot.
Bone,

All bruce is a speaker box. He takes classes from real world instructors which some I do know of and trained under and just spits out the info back out.

He has NO REAL world experience or operational experience and this POS of a match shows that he basically has 0 skills in planning or pulling off any type of event.

He has the nerve to come on and post he doesnt need these guy's money? Well you go back to Bruce..tell him to man up and pay these guys what he owes them, their entry fee and an apology at the least.

As for you...show up and shoot or shut up about a subject and arena you basically have 0 understanding of. Step back from the coolaid bowl and open up your eyes and take off the blinders.

Bruce doesnt have the nerve and is not man enough to lay down next to an of these guys in real competition or even face them when he has a lot of unhappy customers.
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  #126  
Old 10-20-2008, 7:30 AM
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You earned it FX.
The folks who were 'that' unhappy should've said something at that point instead of spending the rest of the afternoon being upset and perhaps building up resentment.

That wouldn't have done any good as we did voice our displeasure. As Bruce so arrogantly stated in the beginning, "my match, my rules. This is xtreme, people!" And we won't even start with the NUMEROUS safety violations.

Krell's been crucified over this one class.

And rightfully so. He ripped us off and has shown his incompetence by what he has done and said.

Of all the participants there, I recall seeing only a few at his other classes, of which there are many.

Thats because most of us don't take classes from clueless wannabes.

He's been instrumental in keeping Angeles Range open in a hostile environment. He's provided shooters of every skill a 'class' from beginners to advanced in the handgun, carbine, shotgun and (while this 'rifle' competition was not exemplary) rifle.
He's active in the 'Los Angeles' political field in that he confronts the gun grabbers in person and has done so in open debate. He's been decent to almost all the folks who've I've seen interact with him BUT I will agree he can be 'more' than abrupt.

Keep drinking the koolaid.

From the number of views and responses there will be many who think all his classes are represented by these several who, however you look at it, were unhappy.

Given how inept he is, yes, I believe this is how all his classes are. This has been confirmed to me by former students and others in the know.


We've got few enough reasonably priced and safely run ranges and classes in S. Cal and keelhauling someone who made a good effort at setting up a 'difficult' field of fire won't increase that number.

It would be nice to have one fewer.


I watched all the hits, each one. Several shooters were exemplary out to the 850-900 yard target and in the wind. I think that those who didn't like the shoot should say so but the 'personal' attacks and harshness of those comments does nothing to improve the day or create an educational give and take. All the name calling does is make shooters look like reactionaries who 'eat [shoot] their own'. Just what the libs call us.
In the end the only thing this has done has lessened the communities viability to those who are 'new' and made factions out of people who like to shoot.

Like I said, this has strengthened our community by outing the joker.
Are you and your buddy Bruce going to take Vu up on his offer of shooting in the next TBRC? For someone that says "nobody shot worth crap," I can't wait to see how he does at a real match.

Last edited by rksimple; 10-20-2008 at 7:46 AM..
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  #127  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:14 AM
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Are you and your buddy Bruce going to take Vu up on his offer of shooting in the next TBRC? For someone that says "nobody shot worth crap," I can't wait to see how he does at a real match.

Don't count on it.
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  #128  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:23 AM
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I got two spots...one for Bruce and his lil mouth piece. May 30th and 31st of 2009.

Square range out to 1K. Steel range out to 550yards.

Two FULL days of shooting and about 180 rounds fired for score. It may not be Xtreme but it will test your precision shooting skills and let you see where you stack up against shooters that don't shoot for crap anyways.

I know you dont need the money Bruce....you made that clear in your post. However please come take the grand prize away from us non shooting bumpkins. Last year it was a custom GA Precision Rifle worth 3300.00.
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  #129  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:40 AM
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All right everyone. Just drop it. Let's move on.
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  #130  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFX View Post
Sorry for the rough start guys. I just got upset when I saw the post that insinuated my shooting partner and I didn't earn our place at the competition, as if it was handed to us. It may not be much to you because you guys shoot matches all the time, but we worked really hard and were really happy to see some of that pay off. Hopefully that's understandable.
I think the most insulting thing I've heard about people's performance at this match was straight from the match director when he said "None of you shot worth a crap" in a previous post.
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  #131  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:45 AM
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I think Joe and I did pretty good for the day. Ryan shined on wind calling.

I have no sour grapes with no one. I just think it's just too much dough for a match like that.
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  #132  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:47 AM
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I think the most insulting thing I've heard about people's performance at this match was straight from the match director when he said "None of you shot worth a crap" in a previous post.
I'd like to see the raw results.
The hit percentages he is claiming are after 25% of the possible hits are removed due to 3 squads getting disqualified over moving to correct sight-line issues.

There were 12 targets total to be fired upon.
I was able to shoot at 11 of them.
3 were disqualified due to moving positions.
That leaves me 8 possible scored targets out of 12.

If I shot nearly 60% out of a possible 67%, that's pretty damn good.
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  #133  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:49 AM
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I remember that stage. Ryan scorred 4 hits, I think you scorred 2 hits, Wes I think was 1 hit, Timber was 0 or 1, and Bob was booming like around 4 hits.
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  #134  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:53 AM
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Was there a prize table? Any sponsors? What's the prizes? Not just those coins, right?

Where did the $1k - $2k spent?
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  #135  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolPete75 View Post
I remember that stage. Ryan scorred 4 hits, I think you scorred 2 hits, Wes I think was 1 hit, Timber was 0 or 1, and Bob was booming like around 4 hits.
I was 1.5 - thats the one I hit the base on and I think it should be at least worth .5 (and yes I was aiming at the base - thats my story and I'm sticking to it)
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  #136  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:55 AM
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ok timber we'll round up to two.
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  #137  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:57 AM
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Was there a prize table? Any sponsors? What's the prizes? Not just those coins, right?

Where did the $1k - $2k spent?
no prize table, no sponsers and where the $$ went - - - who knows
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  #138  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:58 AM
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again, let's just end it. it's done with.
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  #139  
Old 10-20-2008, 8:58 AM
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Pete, I hit once at 850yd and twice at the closer target, missed on the middle one--not able to call corrections due to the bushes... not that it really matters.

I never claimed I was a hot **** shooter anyway, on a flat square range or not. I do this to learn and get practice. On that stage I learned some things about the wind and such... the first two stages... I'm shocked anyone missed. Even the smallest target at 160 yards was still 8X MOA! You miss that one you should just go home.


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  #140  
Old 10-20-2008, 9:00 AM
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Was there a prize table? Any sponsors? What's the prizes? Not just those coins, right?
Coins for the top 6 shooters.
Shirts if you signed up before october 6th.
That's it.
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  #141  
Old 10-20-2008, 9:03 AM
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Coins for the top 6 shooters.
Shirts if you signed up before october 6th.
That's it.
The shirt doesn't count. Its just a rag.
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  #142  
Old 10-20-2008, 9:06 AM
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no one hit the 2nd target in that stage.

i hit the first target on my first hit and dropped the steel. by the time it went back up the wind changed. oh well. crap happens. i have scratches and bruises all over my elbows and legs from shooting on rock chips.

on some targets, i had half my body on huge rocks to be able to shoot and my rifle was litterally kicking to the side after each fired round. joe was firing in a nearly 90 degree angle to shoot the first two stages. it was ridiculous. anyways, it's done and over.

the last two stages was all about wind.

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  #143  
Old 10-20-2008, 9:29 AM
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Still, I have no problem with any of that, the rocks, the angles, the wind, that's all part of tactical shooting. And considering the conditions I thought most people shot well... I only have a problem with Bruce and his utter lack of regard for fairness, safety and professionalism.

His arrogance WILL be his downfall.
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  #144  
Old 10-20-2008, 9:55 AM
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After deciding to go to this match, some guys wanted me to give them a call and give them an AAR. On the way back from the match I called a couple guys who've been there done that when it comes to quality matches, and they told me to call Tony P. and let him know, that he'd really want to hear this. For those of you who shot SCPRC and TBRC this year know who Tony is and what he does. I called and left a message Saturday evening. He called me back within a couple minutes and said, "hey man, just wanted to call back real quick...I'll call you tomorrow to talk. I'm back here at Benning doing the Top Sniper competition and we're getting ready to do the night movement portion." I said good luck and good night.

Now here's a real deal 8541, who's seen quite a bit, and was challenged by Bruce to come to this competition to see if he was extreme Xtreme enough. For Bruce's sake, I'm glad Tony didn't come and is making the Marines pround at Benning.
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  #145  
Old 10-20-2008, 10:01 AM
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Watch for Robbie Johnson at the Benning match- he & his partner will probably win this.
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  #146  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:04 AM
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WOW...

I was supposed to be RK's partner and couldn't make it for personal reasons. Looks like I dodged a bullet. I'm very sorry to hear about the bad experiences.

I know Bruce and I believe him to be an honest man but maybe he should review the match and possibly refund the money to those who felt cheated. RK's not a trouble maker and wouldn't call BS if it don't stink... in fact RK has a cool head and serious skill with his rifle.

I'm not interested in taking sides, I wasn't there. This should be resolved as gentlemen, our shooting sports take a beating enough from the outside, we need to maintain a solid community.

Hugs.

(cross-posted at SH)
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  #147  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:21 AM
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Ryan, I will be seeing Tony at BRM-3 in November and you can be sure he and Mark will get the full dope on this situation.
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  #148  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:33 AM
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Nova,

I gave Tony a call after I got Ryans call...word travels fast. He is currently in GA shooting a big sniper comp...not XTREME..but one the military puts on that is going to be on the history channel?

It looks like a Sniper Hide member called down and has confirmed Bruce has NEVER gone through SS school nor did he ever get taught all 10 weeks of the craft. He taught some ballistics software, was shown one stalk, shot on 2 ranges. The people actually laughed when they heard his name according the guy on the Hide.

Gets better every minute.
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  #149  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:35 AM
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Hi guys! To be honest, I kind of enjoyed the match. That's the kind of match you need to shoot when your running on alittle less then 3 hours of sleep & a slite hangover! Tons of time between shooting & we got to meet some cool people, Pete & I even had some time to have a nice little picnic on some rocks. It was kind of like shooting in the desert with friends on a nice sunny day! So I might have missed it but, where did our money go?

Seriously though! that match should have been free & fair to all shooters!
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  #150  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:41 AM
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You shot well Joe! Those sandwhiches were definitely a good idea.

Our money went to his pocket, but supposedly he didn't make any money.
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  #151  
Old 10-20-2008, 12:19 PM
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Come on now...dont forget the magnets!
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  #152  
Old 10-20-2008, 12:22 PM
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you almost made soda come out of my nose.
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  #153  
Old 10-20-2008, 12:25 PM
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Those magnets kicked a**. I'm sure evryone that saw them along the way was xtremely impressed.
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  #154  
Old 10-20-2008, 12:52 PM
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I wouldn't be upset about it at all if it had been free or even $25. AND if I had been able to see the targets, or known where they would be ahead of time.


Of course having shooters blasting over my shoulder was freaking me out a little bit too...
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  #155  
Old 10-20-2008, 12:54 PM
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Wow...How did you end up infront of the firing line?

No line RO?
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  #156  
Old 10-20-2008, 1:01 PM
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It probably doesn't matter any more, since his sniper school story has been refuted, but his intellectual property claims don't hold up either. From his bio,

Quote:
I documented the existence of this system in 2001 through a registered trademark.
This was the first system of this type ever available. I know this because
my trademark was used to bust a phone patent on a device that came after mine was on sale.
Trademarks aren't patents, and don't document anything other than a name or an image. Most patent holders know the difference. But then, a patent search doesn't seem to come up with his name or invention, nor can I find a withdrawn trademark in his name either.

I was able, however, to find a lot of similar systems that predate 2001, including some now worthless algorithyms I worked on back in the 80's (for tank shells, not snipers, and they sure weren't handheld).

It seems I worked on the predecessor systems to the ones Bruce worked on, but it doesn't help my marksmanship any. But I attribute that to the fact that he did his academic training at the University of New Orleans and the University of Houston, while I was wasting my time on the same at Harvard and MIT. And he did the Rand thing while I hung out at IBM and Bell Labs. Evidently, I chose poorly, and failed in my quest to be "the real deal". Oh well.
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  #157  
Old 10-20-2008, 1:04 PM
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Thanks for further confirmation guns and labs. This really keeps getting better.
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  #158  
Old 10-20-2008, 1:07 PM
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At first after reading this I was very sympathetic to you guys wasting your hard earned money and time. But now I think you guys are just a bunch of whiners. Because I saw the coin, three words.............badass.


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Old 10-20-2008, 1:14 PM
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Ryan,

Was it at least white chocolate?
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Old 10-20-2008, 1:17 PM
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My silver coin looks like it was spray painted. The bronze coin were actually the nicest.

There isn't even a picture of a rifle. It's is very generic like it was from a previous pistol match.

The SCPRC coins were awesome. Very nice.
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