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  #1  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:25 PM
mag360 mag360 is offline
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Default surefire 500 lumen too bright for home defense?

When comparing the 200 lumen haley strategic light on my 870 and the x300 ultra 500 lumen on my pistol I feel like its just too bright and I get a ton of splash back. Seems like its better for guys out on a ranch or clearing a large warehouse. Anyone else think that way?
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:50 AM
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If 500 lumen is too bright for you, imagine what it would be on the business end of your pistol.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:57 AM
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I think especially when you just wake up!
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Old 02-15-2014, 5:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
When comparing the 200 lumen haley strategic light on my 870 and the x300 ultra 500 lumen on my pistol I feel like its just too bright and I get a ton of splash back. Seems like its better for guys out on a ranch or clearing a large warehouse. Anyone else think that way?
Slighty agreed....but then again, upon being startled awake, your eyes arent gonna be adjusted, so any amount of lights gonna temporary blind up....and the perp who is breaking in... i know, im being capt obvious

But my opinion 500 is too much....what colors are your walls???
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Old 02-15-2014, 6:18 AM
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I feel that way about 300 lumens. Can't imagine nearly double that
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Old 02-15-2014, 7:31 AM
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I've got a 2-AA penlight if you would like it..
If you have problems with 500 lumens..
You want to have light to blind the bad guy..if he can't see you..but you can see him you have the advantage..
The splash back is nothing compared to being in front of the light..
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Old 02-15-2014, 7:47 AM
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Everyone is different.

For me, 1000 lumen lights work well for me and my X300 Ultra feels a little weak now.
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Old 02-15-2014, 8:39 AM
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Everyone is different.

For me, 1000 lumen lights work well for me and my X300 Ultra feels a little weak now.
Holy crap!!! Using that indoors???
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Old 02-15-2014, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
When comparing the 200 lumen haley strategic light on my 870 and the x300 ultra 500 lumen on my pistol I feel like its just too bright and I get a ton of splash back. Seems like its better for guys out on a ranch or clearing a large warehouse. Anyone else think that way?
Agree completely as do many instructors who train for CQB. 60 lumens is plenty of light to identify a threat. Last thing you want is so much light that you get blinded by splash back.

Way to many mall ninjas never receive training and think more is better when it comes to lights. This is simply not true, particularly indoors and even more so if you have white walls in the home.

The primary purpose of the light is to ID any threats that may be present. You don't need much more than 60 lumens to clearly see in a dark home. Don't believe me? Try it out.

Personally, I do not mount lights on any of my weapons.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:25 AM
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60-120 is great IMO as well

I PREFER to have lights mounted on my weapons. I can't shoot what I can't identify.

over 200 indoors gets pretty bright on MY end as well.

OUTDOORS, I'd consider going 200+

flash hider is more important than recoil
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceofreason View Post
60-120 is great IMO as well

I PREFER to have lights mounted on my weapons. I can't shoot what I can't identify.

over 200 indoors gets pretty bright on MY end as well.

OUTDOORS, I'd consider going 200+

flash hider is more important than recoil
Try it yourself..
And you will see the following statements are true.

60 to 120.
lumens
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2014, 11:06 AM
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I agree that for searching 1,000 is too great.

If you encounter a dark area to the side, it will be very dark as your pupils are constricted.

But then it is your home and you know where- the light switches are, the mirrors are located and other common hazards.

Yes- when you get illuminated by 500-1,000 lumins your OODA loop gets reset.

If you have not used airsoft and lights with a friend in your house to practice, you should consider it.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:40 AM
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200 max IMO
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:02 PM
Patrick Aherne Patrick Aherne is offline
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Sometimes, I go out in the daytime and there is this big, yellow ball of light in the sky. It's WAY more than 1000 lumens and it lets me see, just fine. Haley spouted that BS because his light only put out 200 lumens. I used to believe that, too, until I used a 500 lumen light and now I much prefer one of at least 500 lumens.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:54 PM
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Lumens is deceptive term as Thee is no official standard for color or brightness in the industry.

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Old 02-15-2014, 1:00 PM
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It would be nice to have the option of using a laser only, or nightsights only. My P30 has the x400 with Tritium sights. And I keep it next to my SureFire P2X Fury.
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Old 02-15-2014, 1:35 PM
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I've found that around 160 lumens from an older incandescent Surefire or Streamlight is plenty for me inside my white-walled house. Outside I have one of those custom-modified light cannons from candlepowerforums that belts out around 1800 lumens in a tight beam that goes for a mile. It cuts through vegetation and tinted car windows no problem. The so-called "light cannon" is the size of a 2-D Maglite and is handheld of course. If you don't go with a weapon mounted light, there are several techniques you can use for holding the light in the weak hand, both bracing your gun-hand and otherwise.

I thought maybe it was time to upgrade but before I did, I shined the old surefire and streamlight at my reflection in a mirror from about 18 feet away and Hoh Leee Foook! My scotopic vision was fried for the next several minutes. That convinced me that 200 or so lumens is plenty sufficient, just like a lot of the law enforcement gurus had been saying.

One last thing: don't be an idiot with any weapon light or any light in a tactical situation period and have it on for more than a second or two. You can see what you need to see with just a momentary flash or sweep that lasts less than one second, maybe even less than half a second. There was a sticky over in Arfcom that is well worth reading in the lights and lasers section of the AR-15 subforum on proper use of lights.
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Old 02-15-2014, 2:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
Agree completely as do many instructors who train for CQB. 60 lumens is plenty of light to identify a threat. Last thing you want is so much light that you get blinded by splash back.

Way to many mall ninjas never receive training and think more is better when it comes to lights. This is simply not true, particularly indoors and even more so if you have white walls in the home.

The primary purpose of the light is to ID any threats that may be present. You don't need much more than 60 lumens to clearly see in a dark home. Don't believe me? Try it out.

Personally, I do not mount lights on any of my weapons.
I agree 100%. Even 60 will temporally blind you at home defense ranges.
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Old 02-15-2014, 7:12 PM
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Does it Identify a Threat or more importantly a Non Threat, so you don't end up Bubba's wife. It should work just fine.
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Old 02-16-2014, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
When comparing the 200 lumen haley strategic light on my 870 and the x300 ultra 500 lumen on my pistol I feel like its just too bright and I get a ton of splash back. Seems like its better for guys out on a ranch or clearing a large warehouse. Anyone else think that way?
I totally agree and when I finally bought my first railed SiG's and mounted lights on them, I sought out the old Surefire 170 lumens X300 instead of the artificial sun of the X300 Ultra.
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Old 02-17-2014, 4:41 AM
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Too bright? Heck no. I want any POS that's in my house at night to feel his eyes burn and take a second to rethink his current situation. There is no way s/he would be able to take an accurate shot with all that light bearing down on him, let alone in strobe mode. I have a TLR-1 HL on my 870, 630 Lumens focused nicely. My walls are white and I don't get splash back or whatever.

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Old 02-17-2014, 8:35 AM
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If you hear someone in your house and you grab your firearm with a weapons mounted light and its too bright, really over 200 lumens and shine it it will blind you as wells as the person inside your house. What I do with my surefire x300 is put a yellow filter on it which I can take off when I am going to be using it outside. Next time you wake up at 3 in the morning to take a piss grab your weapons light that is 500+ lumens and shine it and see what its like.
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Old 02-17-2014, 9:13 AM
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When I turn on the bathroom light, it's bright since it's in my line of sight. In my pic you can see the cone of light going forward. I don't turn the light on randomly, only if it's aimed or shouldered and I rarely aim at the wall.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:24 AM
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I find my x300u reflects a lot of light off of white interior walls. It's a bit disorienting but not nearly as disorienting as accidentally lighting yourself up from the bathroom mirror. I use the x300u on a carbine that I take camping, the pistols get less powerful lights for indoor use.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:26 AM
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run the light at night with a red filter. that will tone down the lumens of the white and wont blind you at night.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:36 AM
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I have used my 300 lumen TLR-1s in a 'heat of the moment' type of situation in the middle of the night, and I can say now that I would not want more for HD. I also know from that situation that 300 is very effective, and I didnt even use the strobe
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:52 AM
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IMHO, 75 to 200 indoors. 500+ outdoors.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:16 AM
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tried it last night at 2am, grabbed the glock 20 w/ the surefire and lit up my stairwell on the way to the bathroom. It definitely affected my vision BUT if you figure you are going to be partly concealed by a door frame that you can duck behind after firing if you have ID'ed a threat on that burst of light it should be OK. My vision recovered in a few seconds to where I could make out the furniture and walls and I could still easily see the night sights when the light was off. My walls are a light green upstairs so not as bad as white. With that said, I still prefer the 870 w/ momentary on switch.
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post
Lumens is deceptive term as Thee is no official standard for color or brightness in the industry.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Yep. And a huge part of how well a light works is where and how evenly the light is distributed with hot spots minimized. Surefire does a superb job of this, lighting up a sizable area.

And for those who think less is better, think of a scenario where you use a lessor light and identify a perp in your living room but totally miss the accomplice in the shadows off to the side.

I'll take my X300U, thank you. And my 600 lumen forend light on my Mossberg.
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Old 02-17-2014, 5:43 PM
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Too bright? Heck no. I want any POS that's in my house at night to feel his eyes burn and take a second to rethink his current situation. There is no way s/he would be able to take an accurate shot with all that light bearing down on him, let alone in strobe mode. I have a TLR-1 HL on my 870, 630 Lumens focused nicely. My walls are white and I don't get splash back or whatever.

I also have the TLR1 HL. At the "low ready", the 600 lumens easily illuminates low light/dark areas and fills the room just the right light.

Yes, WML are part of the weapon platform and not intended as "search" tools. There is no need to use the WML with such high lumens as a directional light to acquire the threat. Simply move at the "low ready" and light fills the space easily.

My WML now allows me to move easily through the environment with safe muzzle discipline. Still have a hand-held with me though.

Last edited by retired195; 02-17-2014 at 5:51 PM..
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Old 02-17-2014, 5:49 PM
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You should try the Malkoff drop in heads. I have two for my old Surefire G2s and they are awesome. Makes an old flashlight into the best tactical light I have ever used. The light reminds me of the old Prison Guard Search lights in the movies.
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  #32  
Old 02-19-2014, 2:02 PM
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Anything less than the sun is not bright enough. Just put on sunglasses if you're worried about splashback. I want to cook the retina's of the intruder if possible.

Last edited by Cody; 02-19-2014 at 2:54 PM..
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:01 PM
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I have a x300u on my 17 and M&P45. I was taught to clear in the low ready as to not paint unidentified targets with my muzzle. Just about any room in my house is completely illuminated when using this technique. And if I need to go outside I can light up large portions of my backyard as well.

I have a 500 lumens P2X Fury on one of my AR's as well.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:28 AM
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I go with a wide angle light at 125 lumens in short bursts… I don't need to count the freckles on the perps face, I just need to identify as friend or foe. I also don't need a lot of light blasting back at me destroying my natural night vision by shrinking my pupils.
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