Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-29-2014, 9:53 PM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default odd issue with sizing 9mm

First time reloading 9mm and first time using a carbide die.

Im getting odd teeth marks on the very edge of the brass sfter sizing. Im not sure if its an issue with a fluted chamber from my p7m8, or what.

I set the die 1/8 turn away from shell holder, almost every brass gets the marks, I messed around with the die, and I very seldom get the marks while 3/4 turns out away from shell holder. Unsure if this will cause chambering problems, or if the marks on the brass will be a problem to begin with.

Using rcbs carbide die, but the carbide is a little different then most dies, its a full length sleeve piece of carbide, instead of the little short ring.



Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:16 PM
XVIga_Rob's Avatar
XVIga_Rob XVIga_Rob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: 916
Posts: 1,394
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Have you checked for debris in the die? I would remove the decapping pin and inspect/clean the inside of the die.

Per the instructions, the die should just touch the top of the shell holder, when it is at the top of the stroke.

I use the same die's and have never had this issue.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:51 PM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Per instructions carbide die should never touch shell holder
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-30-2014, 7:38 AM
Bastard Bastard is offline
Resident a**hole
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,470
iTrader: 76 / 100%
Default

my guess would be that the brass is hitting the top of the die, possibly the decapping rod is too far down but I would have to look at the die & the set up.

does your press cam over, are you setting you die with the arm all the way down or are you verifying that the ram is at the top of its upward stroke?

I am also using the RCBS carbide die for my 9mm & was having issues not removing the case bulge from not being able to set the die low enough in my progressive. the solution that I use it the Lee carbide factory crimp die... but then again I always crimp as a separate stage anyway


I would just pull the die apart & clean it, the reset the die from the beginning to start with & go from there

Last edited by Bastard; 01-30-2014 at 7:40 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-30-2014, 7:53 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Its in a rcbs rs press. Ram is up all the way. Decapping pin is set just enough to pop primers out.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:01 AM
Bastard Bastard is offline
Resident a**hole
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,470
iTrader: 76 / 100%
Default

watch the ram & make sure that it doesn't go back down just slightly at the end of the stroke, also know as cam over. I know that some presses do & if you are unaware it could result in the die being set wrong. or you could just load at 3/4 turn out & "plop test" your barrels which you should do anyway
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:02 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Never done a chamber check, I could do it bare brass, or should It have a bullet in it?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:13 AM
Bastard Bastard is offline
Resident a**hole
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,470
iTrader: 76 / 100%
Default

it should have a bullet in it, but assuming that you haven't expanded the case mouth... no on second though, seated & crimped then plop tested
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:18 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Pull your decamping rod & look inside your die.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:21 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Would whats happening cause any issues if I just left it? Think it could be because the brass was shot with a flutted chamber?

I dont see how it would be bottoming out inside the die
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:30 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Here's mine P7 reloads a little nicked up but, nothing unusual . Do they look like that before sizing?Attachment 299593

Last edited by mark501w; 06-19-2014 at 9:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:30 AM
Bastard Bastard is offline
Resident a**hole
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,470
iTrader: 76 / 100%
Default

the more I think about it, the more I think there is something in the die... like mark said pull the decapping rod look inside - take a qtip & clean it out as well
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-30-2014, 8:42 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Heading for range to shoot those reloads to see if fluting splits cases. Be back on in a few.
E
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-30-2014, 9:57 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

I have no split cases from flutting of my p7m8.

My brass looks normal before sizing (other then fluting marks)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-30-2014, 10:55 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Then it's something in your die.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-30-2014, 11:18 AM
XVIga_Rob's Avatar
XVIga_Rob XVIga_Rob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: 916
Posts: 1,394
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kielbasavw View Post
Per instructions carbide die should never touch shell holder
Touching & striking are not the same.

Sizing With Carbide Sizer Die's (pg. 4)
http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instru...structions.pdf



Hope you were able to correct the issue you were having.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-30-2014, 12:09 PM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Here's mine right now.Attachment 299660

Last edited by mark501w; 06-19-2014 at 9:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-30-2014, 3:04 PM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Thats what mine looked like before the tumble. After the tumble there are still faint marks/staining
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-31-2014, 5:53 AM
Bastard Bastard is offline
Resident a**hole
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,470
iTrader: 76 / 100%
Default

any luck figuring this out?

now that I am finally home & able to look at my die I am going to guess that there is either something in yours or you decapping rod is bent
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-31-2014, 6:24 AM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 5,954
iTrader: 56 / 100%
Default

The P7 has a fluted chamber which acts on the brass like a collet except the brass expands into the teeth. That's why the case mouth looks like a ratchet. You should screw the die to touch the shell holder. The press will spring away and so will the die so the shell holder will not crush the carbide insert. I've been doing this for 20 years, mostly with 9mm. I use a Redding die. No problems.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-31-2014, 6:40 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

This will be the 2nd reloading doesn't look like the op's.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:18 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Nothing in the die, de cap rod straight.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:25 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I guess I'll have to put some more time on the bench with the gun & see how it goes. Load'em up& see how it goes.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:30 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

By the way I set my carbide dies to touch the holder & cam over.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:30 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

I did size one piece of nickel brass, that I did not shoot (range find) that cracked along the entire side after sizing. Another for my collection on brass gone wrong
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:49 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Nickel is a little different I think it's a little more brittle.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:58 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

I might just re size them all with the die all the way down, instead of 3/4 turn out. Flare, and crimp should remove any funkyness. If I can get a way to trim 9mm id do it to. But all I have are trim dies for a couple other calibers I load
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-31-2014, 8:10 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

How many times have you reloaded the cases? I know using rifle cases shot in aHK are worthless. Results from yesterday. @ 15 paces.Attachment 299848 everything's 90 off can't figure it out.

Last edited by mark501w; 06-19-2014 at 9:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-31-2014, 8:14 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Being this is the first time I even looked at my 9mm dies, id saymy once fired factory brass has only been LOADED once ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-31-2014, 8:16 AM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Maybe your sights are a hair off, or is it only shooting to the left with your reloads
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-31-2014, 8:18 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

The pics @ 90• I don't know how to rotate it.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-31-2014, 8:39 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Next time I'am @ the range I will crono what's left & they will be on the 2nd reloading & see if the problem crops up.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-31-2014, 8:47 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Nice shooting guns inspite of trigger super accurate , hope it doesn't use cases.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-31-2014, 4:52 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 263
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kielbasavw View Post
First time reloading 9mm and first time using a carbide die.

Im getting odd teeth marks on the very edge of the brass sfter sizing. Im not sure if its an issue with a fluted chamber from my p7m8, or what.
You answered your own question but the light bulb only came on dim. If the expander die doesn't take out the wrinkles you may need to use a standard full length die to iron out the wrinkles.

Or get rid of the p7m8 and get a Glock.



Sorry, the devil made me do it.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-31-2014, 5:15 PM
kielbasavw's Avatar
kielbasavw kielbasavw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,591
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Its not just wrinkle. The very edge is folded over towards outside of the case mouth, very small slight folds. Which make the teeth mark looking things.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-31-2014, 6:32 PM
Scout2Diesel Scout2Diesel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SGV
Posts: 455
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Had a similar problem, of the neck folding on oneside. I cleaned the die body and shell holder (sonic, kroil, airwhip). Fixed it. Looks like a sharp edge on the die. Mine have a rounded leading edge. I would try a different carbide sizer.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-02-2014, 7:15 PM
rcschummers's Avatar
rcschummers rcschummers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: AUBURN
Posts: 1,254
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51 View Post
You answered your own question but the light bulb only came on dim. If the expander die doesn't take out the wrinkles you may need to use a standard full length die to iron out the wrinkles.



Or get rid of the p7m8 and get a Glock.







Sorry, the devil made me do it.

Glock +1
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-03-2014, 6:51 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Glocks have their own problems.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-03-2014, 9:47 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 5,954
iTrader: 56 / 100%
Default

When I had my P7 it did the same thing. Don't worry about it. Just reload the damm case.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-04-2014, 8:48 AM
fast54vw's Avatar
fast54vw fast54vw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orange County
Posts: 468
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Thinking about it Kielbasa and if you relate it to body work on a car then. on a car a dent stretches the metal, you sometimes have to heat it to shrink it & get the oil can effect to go away. you know you barely push on the panel and it pops in and then back out.
with the fluted chamber the brass will just barely stretch into the grooves between the ribs (even if you cant see it, it does). then when you run it into the sizer the high and low spots of the fluting size different and the extra metal has to go somewhere since the die wont let it "oil can" like a large car panel does. you only notice it on the edge because it is the only edge that the stress can go to.
have you checked case length? maybe you can trim the cases to get rid of the problem. or maybe anneal the brass before sizing
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:56 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.