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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 10-24-2013, 11:10 PM
jdnoyes jdnoyes is offline
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Default PCSing to Ft. Irwin

So after 17 years of service, I got the official news that I am on orders to PCS to Irwin in May. My first thought was oh sh** my guns. I have been all over this forum trying to learn the California laws and how they apply to active duty Soldiers bringing guns to the state. I must say I knew it was bad, but I had no idea how bad it truly was.

My initial reaction was to say screw it and leave all my guns at my dad’s house in Texas since I'll be living on post anyways, but the more I consider it the more I want to bring everything I can legally bring to Irwin with me. I love to shoot and would rather join the fight with you guys than just give up and let California win. Having said all that after doing my research I am still somewhat confused as to what I can and can't do, especially based on the latest round of anti gun laws you guys are dealing with.

I know I can bring all my handguns with me and any mags with 10 rounds or less are good. Looks like my shotgun and hunting rifles are good as none of them have pistol grips or detachable magazines. And it appears that as a temporary active duty resident I have no requirement to register any of my guns with California, although assuming I live on post I will have to register them with the PMO.

So here are my questions: It appears that I may be able to bring my ARs with me assuming they are disassembled and not listed under A or B of the flowchart, and I never assemble them while in the state. Is this correct? It also appears I could bring high cap mags as well as long as they were disassembled as "parts kits". This would allow me to drive across the border to Nevada and assembly my stuff and then shoot. Is this correct or will it change with the parts kit law going into effect in January?

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate this awesome resources that have been assembled on this forum.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2013, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jdnoyes View Post
So after 17 years of service, I got the official news that I am on orders to PCS to Irwin in May. My first thought was oh sh** my guns. I have been all over this forum trying to learn the California laws and how they apply to active duty Soldiers bringing guns to the state. I must say I knew it was bad, but I had no idea how bad it truly was.

My initial reaction was to say screw it and leave all my guns at my dad’s house in Texas since I'll be living on post anyways, but the more I consider it the more I want to bring everything I can legally bring to Irwin with me. I love to shoot and would rather join the fight with you guys than just give up and let California win. Having said all that after doing my research I am still somewhat confused as to what I can and can't do, especially based on the latest round of anti gun laws you guys are dealing with.

I know I can bring all my handguns with me and any mags with 10 rounds or less are good. Looks like my shotgun and hunting rifles are good as none of them have pistol grips or detachable magazines. And it appears that as a temporary active duty resident I have no requirement to register any of my guns with California, although assuming I live on post I will have to register them with the PMO.

So here are my questions: It appears that I may be able to bring my ARs with me assuming they are disassembled and not listed under A or B of the flowchart, and I never assemble them while in the state. Is this correct? It also appears I could bring high cap mags as well as long as they were disassembled as "parts kits". This would allow me to drive across the border to Nevada and assembly my stuff and then shoot. Is this correct or will it change with the parts kit law going into effect in January?

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate this awesome resources that have been assembled on this forum.
First of all, thank you for your service.

The Calguns flow charts are your best reference.

For your handguns, also make sure that you don't have any semi-autos with threaded barrels, or anything similar to the Taurus Judge. Don't worry about the "Safe Handgun" roster. That only applies to weapons you purchase, from an FFL, while in the state.

So long as you're on active duty, there is no requirement to register your handguns with the state. If there is any possibility of your being charged with carrying a loaded, or concealed, weapon, then it may be advantageous to do so. A first time offense is a felony if the weapons are unregistered. Its only a misdemeanor if they are registered to you.

You should be aware of the "Military Assault Weapons Permit." It is technically possible for you to get a permit to bring an assault weapon into the state. The process is extremely cumbersome. You can find the details on the AG's website at: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...s/mawpapp.pdf?

Don't bring in any semi-auto rifle, even if broken down into parts, if the weapon is listed as an "evil by name" assault weapon. The parts are fine. The receiver alone is still an assault weapon.

As for the magazines, please check out the various threads on "AB 48."
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:41 AM
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Thank you for the quick reply.

I have no handguns with threaded barrels or anything like the judge so I'm good on that count.

The assault weapons permit is almost assuredly a no go as I highly doubt the post commander is going to sign a form saying "bona fide necessity exists for use of personal assault weapons in military sanctioned activities"

My AR lower receivers are specifically 1xDD and 1xS&W, neither of which are listed on Appendix A or B on the flow chart, but it sounds like you're saying bringing a lower receiver of any sort to California is either outright illegal (if the pistol grip / buttstock were attached) or given the current political situation just a bad idea, which would be a shame, I’m very partial to my ARs. I'm sure if I kept them in my quarters disassembled I would never have an issue but it's not worth losing a career or going to jail over.

I'll read more on the AB48 threads although from what I've read so far it isn't looking promising for bringing high cap mags assembled, disassembled, as “parts kits” or in any other form into the state after 1 January 2014.
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Old 10-25-2013, 1:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jdnoyes View Post
Thank you for the quick reply.

I have no handguns with threaded barrels or anything like the judge so I'm good on that count.

The assault weapons permit is almost assuredly a no go as I highly doubt the post commander is going to sign a form saying "bona fide necessity exists for use of personal assault weapons in military sanctioned activities"

My AR lower receivers are specifically 1xDD and 1xS&W, neither of which are listed on Appendix A or B on the flow chart, but it sounds like you're saying bringing a lower receiver of any sort to California is either outright illegal (if the pistol grip / buttstock were attached) or given the current political situation just a bad idea, which would be a shame, I’m very partial to my ARs. I'm sure if I kept them in my quarters disassembled I would never have an issue but it's not worth losing a career or going to jail over.

I'll read more on the AB48 threads although from what I've read so far it isn't looking promising for bringing high cap mags assembled, disassembled, as “parts kits” or in any other form into the state after 1 January 2014.
I suspect that you're right about the base commander. I have to think the Military AW program was set up to make it look like military folks were being provided for, but then set up so that it is practically impossible.

California defines two different types of AWs. If you have the "evil by name" AW, meaning its listed as an AW by name (refer to Penal Code section 30510), you cannot bring it into the state, even if you break it down to receiver only. If you have an "evil by feature" AW (refer to Penal Code section 30515), then you can bring it into the state if you remove the defining features. Folks generally do that either by removing the "fixed detachable magazine" through the use of a "bullet button", or by removing the offending features.

Last edited by RickD427; 10-25-2013 at 4:21 PM..
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  #5  
Old 10-25-2013, 8:10 AM
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Are you stationed where you can register your weapons on base now? Once you have them registered in the COPS system then it should follow you to your next duty station since COPS is a nation wide database used by the Army. If it doesn't then at least you will have copies of the paperwork already filled out so the information will be readily available.
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Old 10-25-2013, 8:15 AM
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Ft. Irwin...sorry about your luck.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jeg0777 View Post
Are you stationed where you can register your weapons on base now? Once you have them registered in the COPS system then it should follow you to your next duty station since COPS is a nation wide database used by the Army. If it doesn't then at least you will have copies of the paperwork already filled out so the information will be readily available.
No currently stationed at Carson and own a home off post . Would never freely register a gun that I didn't have to.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by guns4life View Post
Ft. Irwin...sorry about your luck.
Im trying to have a positive outlook on Irwin. To me its all about making the best out of every job the Army has asked or will ask me to do. However, I'm honestly shocked by the laws of the state and their apparent disregard for Soldiers and law abiding gun owners. I can assure you I would never even consider moving to California under my own free will even for a lucrative job offer.
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2013, 12:05 PM
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Bummer sorry about your luck.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:05 PM
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Bummer sorry about your luck.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2013, 12:08 PM
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Many thanks for your service, and I'm sorry you are being sucked into a state that does not respect the Constitution that you've worked hard to uphold.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2013, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jdnoyes View Post
No currently stationed at Carson and own a home off post . Would never freely register a gun that I didn't have to.
Register it there now or at Irwin when you get there. Either way they are going to end up in the same database. Just like your vehicles are registered on post they will be able to pull up your information and change what they need to so it reflect you being at Irwin.
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Old 10-25-2013, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
I suspect that you're right about the base commander. I have to think the Military AW program was set up to make it look like military folks were being provided for, but then set up so that it is practically impossible.

California defines two different types of AWs. If you have the "evil by name" AW, meaning its listed as an AW by name (refer to Penal Code section 30510), you cannot bring it into the state, even if you break it down to receiver only. If you have an "evil by feature" AW (refer to Penal Code section 30515), then you can bring it into the state if you remove the defining features. Folks generally do that either by removing the "fixed magazine" through the use of a "bullet button", or by removing the offending features.

^ This is the best answer concerning ARs. Also keep in mind no magazines that can accept over 10 rounds.

I recently went through a similar dilemma before moving here.
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  #14  
Old 10-25-2013, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jdnoyes View Post
Im trying to have a positive outlook on Irwin. To me its all about making the best out of every job the Army has asked or will ask me to do. However, I'm honestly shocked by the laws of the state and their apparent disregard for Soldiers and law abiding gun owners. I can assure you I would never even consider moving to California under my own free will even for a lucrative job offer.
I can sympathize. I did "back-to-back" tours in Alaska. The first was patrolling the Aleutian Islands and Bering Sea. I was actually "arm twisted" by my detailer into taking the second. The key point is that I came to enjoy the place very much and had two very good tours there.

The other good point is that that you're next tour will probably be much better, wherever it is.

Later in my career, I had postings to Marina Del Rey and Newport Beach. The service will eventually pay you back for all that you do (and that works both ways).

There's a lot to do outside of "Patton's Paradise." I hope that you'll have time to see some of our state. It does have a lot to offer, you just have to adapt to some really nutso gun laws and learn not to take some our our fellow residents too seriously.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:55 AM
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Its a shame that a state that started as such a place of freedom and opportunity has become so removed from their roots. I refuse to let it get me down. I'm going to continue to practice my rights as a gun owner right up to the limit of the law while I'm there. As an outdoorsman I'm also looking forward to exploring all the great natural wonders the state has to offer. I know there are plenty of like minded people both military and civilian in the state and I'm thankful that I have a resource like this forum otherwise I'd need a law degree to navigate the insanity that is California gun law.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jeg0777 View Post
Register it there now or at Irwin when you get there. Either way they are going to end up in the same database. Just like your vehicles are registered on post they will be able to pull up your information and change what they need to so it reflect you being at Irwin.
I'm currently deployed but when I return to Carson I'm going to call PMO. While I understand how the database is supposed to work knowing the Army I'm not fully confident I wouldn't end up doing the paperwork twice as I'm pretty sure they will want my new commander's signature on the paperwork. I know as a 1SG I keep a file of all on post firearms regs my current commander has signed.
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Old 10-27-2013, 4:00 PM
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I love it there I retired from there had a great time I was there 98-02 and again 10-11
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Old 10-28-2013, 4:18 PM
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Are you going to 11 ACR or Ops Group?
I was there from 2005-2009.
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Old 10-28-2013, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
I can sympathize. I did "back-to-back" tours in Alaska. The first was patrolling the Aleutian Islands and Bering Sea. I was actually "arm twisted" by my detailer into taking the second. The key point is that I came to enjoy the place very much and had two very good tours there.

The other good point is that that you're next tour will probably be much better, wherever it is.

Later in my career, I had postings to Marina Del Rey and Newport Beach. The service will eventually pay you back for all that you do (and that works both ways).

There's a lot to do outside of "Patton's Paradise." I hope that you'll have time to see some of our state. It does have a lot to offer, you just have to adapt to some really nutso gun laws and learn not to take some our our fellow residents too seriously.
The only problem is that Barstow is the nearest city, and it's 32 miles away.
Victorville isn't much better.
If you "go down the hill", then things get a bit better.
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Old 10-28-2013, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
I suspect that you're right about the base commander. I have to think the Military AW program was set up to make it look like military folks were being provided for, but then set up so that it is practically impossible.

California defines two different types of AWs. If you have the "evil by name" AW, meaning its listed as an AW by name (refer to Penal Code section 30510), you cannot bring it into the state, even if you break it down to receiver only. If you have an "evil by feature" AW (refer to Penal Code section 30515), then you can bring it into the state if you remove the defining features. Folks generally do that either by removing the "fixed detachable magazine" through the use of a "bullet button", or by removing the offending features.
Hes saying to install the bullet buttom or other compliant part before entering
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  #21  
Old 10-28-2013, 5:21 PM
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Hes saying to install the bullet buttom or other compliant part before entering
Sir,

Thanks, that was a good follow-up. The "evil by feature" AW's are those that have a detachable magazine along with an evil feature. By installing the "Bullet Button", you create a fixed magazine, thereby placing the weapon outside the definition. Don't try it on an "evil by name" AW. Those remain illegal even with a "Bullet Button."

Last edited by RickD427; 10-28-2013 at 8:06 PM..
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Old 10-28-2013, 6:05 PM
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I thought being stationed at 29 palms Marine Corps base was bad til I went to ft. Irwin, a road trip to get anywhere from there. We got in a few tussles with Army guys, bored Marines do stupid stuff. It was a blast playing ground combat element for OpFor against the Big Red One. Only time i ever had my fighting hole dug for me by a backhoe, gotta love the Army. Last i heard OpFor had never lost. Great training though, Good Luck, sorry our state gun laws are asinine.
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Old 10-28-2013, 6:37 PM
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I thought being stationed at 29 palms Marine Corps base was bad til I went to ft. Irwin, a road trip to get anywhere from there. We got in a few tussles with Army guys, bored Marines do stupid stuff. It was a blast playing ground combat element for OpFor against the Big Red One. Only time i ever had my fighting hole dug for me by a backhoe, gotta love the Army. Last i heard OpFor had never lost. Great training though, Good Luck, sorry our state gun laws are asinine.
Back in the "old days, the OPFOR occasionally lost a battle here and there. When they did, there was hell to pay for that chain-of-command. A few careers were derailed because of "losses".
When the Army went to counter-insurgency (COIN), the fight was tilted in the BLUEFOR's favor, just by sheer numbers versus the OPFOR. The OPFOR was operating in cells, just like in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now, they're training for high-intensity conflicts (HICON) and COIN with a hybrid threat, combining both.
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Old 10-28-2013, 6:46 PM
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All hope abandon ye who enter here (i.e., California).

However, you have a couple of very nice places not a far drive from Barstow:

1. Laughlin, Nevada - Nevada style gambling but without all the drama and glitz of Vegas. I make at least one trip a year there and launch my boat in Lake Mohave. Lake Mohave is heaven on earth. Google Katherine Landing, Laughlin, Nevada. There are several sites.

2. Front Sight Firearms Training Institute is in Pahrump, Nevada and that will be about 150 miles from where you will be. It is the best firearms training I have ever been to and they are very military friendly. If you need membership info or course certificates, there are plenty on this forum (you can PM me for further information).
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Old 11-03-2013, 1:28 PM
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I did four years in the opfor. Just drive to Vegas for dinner, it will save your sanity!
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Old 11-03-2013, 4:57 PM
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I did four years in the opfor. Just drive to Vegas for dinner, it will save your sanity!
Or to Peggy Sue's for breakfast.
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Old 11-09-2013, 2:30 PM
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Sorry to hear about it but im currently stationed at Irwin and they have a on post range that you can join for 50 a year. Distance out to 1000. I was in the same boat as you and took the chance. Went to the mp's and was informed they didnt require a bullet button as long as it was a legal firearm you are good to go on post given you register with the provost marshall. Now drive off post is your own risk. Awesome place to shoot on BLM land 15min drive from main gate. Any questions you have PM and i will answer as best as I can.
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Old 11-13-2013, 5:05 AM
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I was stationed at 29 palms and 12 years later Ft Irwin, my wife and I liked both! Retired from Irwin to the Palm Springs area.

When at Irwin and 29'er, when we had time, we visited socal attractions, Vegas, Laughlin, Lake Havasue, death valley, Pheonix,Tuscon, and Front Sight.

If you haven't already, check out the: Armed Forces Vacation Club, its where military people can use unsued timeshares for a small fee (no sales), I found out about it from a retiree in Italy. Palm Springs, Pheonix, Tuscon, Lake Havasue have A LOT of cheap unused timeshares.

Welcome!!
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Old 11-30-2013, 8:32 PM
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I was in the OPFOR from 89-91. I did like that it wasn't boring. I love that desert at night.
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Old 12-01-2013, 7:23 PM
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I spent 2.5 years there. I got out in '91. One thing I will say is you are around 2 hours from Vegas or the beach.
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Old 12-01-2013, 9:29 PM
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I spent 2.5 years there. I got out in '91. One thing I will say is you are around 2 hours from Vegas or the beach.
Wow we were there at the same time. I was assigned to B 1/52inf. Who were you assigned to?
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Old 12-02-2013, 7:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 63 tango View Post
Wow we were there at the same time. I was assigned to B 1/52inf. Who were you assigned to?
I think it was the 581'st maintenance division.
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