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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 09-16-2012, 7:26 PM
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Default Buying guns while in the military, bringing guns to CA, CCW

With PCS to CA you are a CA resident
In CA, your PCS orders make you a CA resident for gun-buying purposes; you may buy guns at any CA FFL just as a 'regular' CA resident may.
Your orders are proof of residency
For handguns, you do not need more proof of residency than a copy of your orders. See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...d_gun_handling
BATF ruled you are not a resident of any other state but PCS state, for gun buying purposes
BATF has ruled that, for gun buying purposes, you are ONLY a resident of the state where you are stationed PCS - for guns, you are NOT a resident of any other state, even though you may still vote, pay taxes, maintain your driver license, and own property there. See the wiki article on residency -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Fe...y_requirements. That means if your PCS orders are to CA, you may not legally buy guns outside of CA.
Handgun Roster does not apply when you are ordered here
You may bring most of your guns with you; the Handgun Roster does not apply to moving or visiting here.
Can I bring what California calls an 'assault weapon'?
No. It is not possible to register them any more - all registration periods heve been closed for a decade. There still exists the concept of the Military Assault Weapon Permit (MAWP), but the program is broken (CA-DOJ insists on a letter from base/post commander verifying that private weapons have a military necessity.)

Your issue weapons are excepted.

Presuming your weapon is not listed in the banned-by-name group (see the Flowchart - http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) you may add a magazine locking device ('bullet button") and use 10-round magazines in it while in CA.

See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Mi..._Weapon_Permit
Can I bring in magazines with capacity greater than 10?
No. Magazines issued to you by your service are excepted.
Don't worry about handgun registration
Military is exempt from registering handguns (or long guns, beginning in 2014) as a 'new resident' 'personal handgun importer'.

See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Mo..._with_firearms.
Out of state CCW is not valid
CA does not honor any out of state CCW licenses/permits. CA law does not consider active duty military any differently from non-military when considering an application. In many places, CCW is very difficult to get; in some places it is not hard, but takes a long time.
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Last edited by Librarian; 08-25-2015 at 12:36 PM..
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2012, 8:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
[U][/INDENT]BATF ruled you are not a resident of any other state but PCS state, for gun buying purposes[INDENT]BATF has ruled that, for gun buying purposes, you are ONLY a resident of the state where you are stationed PCS - for guns, you are NOT a resident of any other state, even though you may still vote, pay taxes, maintain your driver license, and own property there. See the wiki article on residency -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Fe...y_requirements. That means if your PCS orders are to CA, you may not legally buy guns outside of CA.
Why are you backtracking from your previous acceptance that a service member does not loose their state of legal residence when they are stationed abroad, or stationed in a different state?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=555826
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:04 AM
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If we were going on the basis of PCS orders alone, any service member who is currently stationed overseas would not be able to buy any firearms in any state. As they are not a resident of any state.
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Old 09-18-2012, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dachan View Post
Why are you backtracking from your previous acceptance that a service member does not loose their state of legal residence when they are stationed abroad, or stationed in a different state?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=555826
Now that I can see the exact thread, I find my initial enthusiasm there for the SCRA was misplaced, and know that it does not address buying guns. As such, the BATF memo appears to be controlling.
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Old 09-18-2012, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by nothing4u View Post
If we were going on the basis of PCS orders alone, any service member who is currently stationed overseas would not be able to buy any firearms in any state. As they are not a resident of any state.
That's true. One might contact JAG about that, I suppose.

There is also a lawsuit on the point: Lane v Holder.
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2012, 12:05 PM
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ATF Rul. 2010-6 is also relevant. Key text is as follows.

Held, for the purpose of acquiring firearms under the Gun Control Act of 1968, a United States citizen who temporarily resides in a foreign country, but who also demonstrates the intention of making a home in a particular State, is a resident of the State during the time period he or she actually resides in that State.

Held further, the intention of making a home in a State must be demonstrated to a Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents. Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver’s licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration.


Full Ruling
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2010-6.pdf

This would take care of military stationed overseas. The full text also discusses multiple state residences which seems to crack the door (in a very grey area, definitely not explicitly stated way) for military firearm purchases in their legal state of residence, assuming they maintain proper documentation for that state.

Last edited by Novator; 09-24-2012 at 3:08 PM..
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2012, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Don't worry about handgun registration[INDENT]Military is exempt from registering handguns (or long guns, beginning in 2014) as a 'new resident' 'personal handgun importer'.
Does this also apply to Military Spouses? My wife is PCSing to San Diego and we are TX residents. Can I use the family guns without registering them under the notion that they're "Hers"? I plan to take the guns out for training purposes fairly often.
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  #8  
Old 10-27-2013, 2:31 PM
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Wow, since moving up to Ventura from San Diego, I've been having trouble with FFLs in the area. Island View Enterprises has been good, but I went down to SFV for a transfer and got refused at two different FFLs.

The first, Addax Tactical wouldn't accept orders as proof of residency and wanted either a utility bill, lease or registration to confirm. The salesclerk even had the nerve to ask why I didn't get a California driver's license as I should have to by law (she was wrong as I'm sure you all know). The second was even worse. It was a tool supply place at 2053 Glen Oaks Blvd. The owner there said because I had an out of state ID there was "no legal way" for me to buy a firearm in California. He then told me all the transfers I had done in the state were to dealer FFL transfer and then a separate transfer to the purchaser. All those FFLs that did transfers for the past three years for me must have been cooking the books I guess.

So much FUD and stupidity. Just want to get the word out to any servicemembers in the area so you can avoid these FFLs and the hassle. Only had this happen once in San Diego and that gunshop is no longer in business.
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2013, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin R White View Post
Does this also apply to Military Spouses? My wife is PCSing to San Diego and we are TX residents. Can I use the family guns without registering them under the notion that they're "Hers"? I plan to take the guns out for training purposes fairly often.
Spouses are not mentioned in the Penal Code.

OTOH, CA has no way to know who actually owns the guns - most states don't register guns, and CA has no access to the registration info of the states that do.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2013, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by roll2li View Post
The first, Addax Tactical wouldn't accept orders as proof of residency and wanted either a utility bill, lease or registration to confirm. The salesclerk even had the nerve to ask why I didn't get a California driver's license as I should have to by law (she was wrong as I'm sure you all know).
First off, we want to apologize for any frustration or confusion we might have created for you in this matter.

Yes your Permanent Duty Station Orders along with your Military ID are acceptable forms of ID.

The reason why we ask for CA ID was due to a very serious incident last year involving a person who attempted to purchase a firearm with a Fake Military ID and Fake Permanent Duty Station Orders.

BATF, CA-DOJ, and other agencies were involved in the investigation, and it was an experience we will not soon forget.

After this incident, we normally will ask for a California DL, or other form of acceptable ID when we are presented with Military ID and Permanent Duty Station orders for verification purposes only.

We just want to play it very safe.

Again, we apologize for any confusion or frustration we caused, and we hope you understand why we are being a little more cautious.

Thank you,
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2013, 10:54 PM
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Thanks for the explanation, I'm glad you were able to retain your licenses and I can only imagine how painful the investigation had to have been.

I'm not surprised this more scrutiny would happen with areas with less military presence as those types of purchases would be rarer. The only times I've had my orders or ID questioned or refused were typically in places not near military bases. I can imagine that during the audits Cal DOJ would want to hone in on anything that looks atypical.

It just seems like every couple of months we have a thread where someone on AD is told they can't do a transfer without a Cal ID or a utility bill. Most can get by eventually but it still sucks.
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2013, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roll2li View Post
Thanks for the explanation, I'm glad you were able to retain your licenses and I can only imagine how painful the investigation had to have been.

I'm not surprised this more scrutiny would happen with areas with less military presence as those types of purchases would be rarer. The only times I've had my orders or ID questioned or refused were typically in places not near military places. I can imagine that during the audits Cal DOJ would want to hone in on anything that looks atypical.

It just seems like every couple of months we have a thread where someone on AD is told they can't do a transfer without a Cal ID or a utility bill. Most can get by eventually but it still sucks.
Thank you for your understanding roll2li.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2013, 10:45 AM
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I have two questions

First off, is it confirmed for sure that active duty will NOT need to register long guns in CA on 1 Jan 2014?

Second, what is to stop me from buying firearms in my home state where I have a DL? If I go home on leave wouldn't that mean that I'm residing in that state again?
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2013, 11:11 AM
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1) Yes military is exempt from registration

2) This topic has been debated many times in the forum. You are right, no one in theory will know, but in the end it is a violation of the BATF ruling that your state of residence is the state in your orders. Like many others on AD I keep my state of residence seperate from California (voting, income tax etc) but in terms of the BATF you are a resident of California if you have PCS orders here and buying guns in another state is a violation of 27 CFR.

I have ONLY seen once a guy on AD be able to buy in two different states, he lived in Florida (high school kids) and commuted to MS daily. He was able to buy in both since he had a home in one state (that he actually lived in) and orders to the other. Not a lot of FFls supported that though.

In other words, it's up to you, as pretty much any other advice on this forum about guy buying legality. Will you get caught? I don't think so, but you are putting your gun buying rights out there.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:43 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up for me. It is interesting though that you can so easily get burned by this law which many don't know about. Hell, I've been in for 3 years and this morning was the first I heard about it.
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Old 10-28-2013, 2:44 PM
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Don't worry, that's why this thread is a sticky. If it wasn't for Calguns I'm pretty sure I'd be in trouble by now.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:33 AM
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When I was stationed there the FFL I went through for a transfer had said I needed other proof of residency as well, my car registration worked since I bought it in CA and had it registered there. Also said a utility bill or a hunting or fishing license would suffice which is what my buddies that lived in the barracks did. It was the first and only firearm I had purchased in CA so didn't know better. I did purchase guns when I was home on leave in TX though but this was 2007-2012 time frame so it may have since changed.
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Old 08-19-2014, 1:38 PM
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Military are only exempt from registering guns when they first move to the state, or on new purchases? I'm a bit confused by that statement.
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Old 10-17-2014, 7:17 AM
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Military are only exempt from registering guns when they first move to the state, or on new purchases? I'm a bit confused by that statement.
Only exempt from registering what you bring into the state. If you but it here, it gets registered.
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Old 10-17-2014, 8:09 PM
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Only exempt from registering what you bring into the state. If you but it here, it gets registered.

That's what I thought. Thanks
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Old 12-29-2014, 12:35 PM
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Can a CA resident buy an off roster gun from an active duty military that is stationed here?
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Old 12-29-2014, 1:00 PM
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Can a CA resident buy an off roster gun from an active duty military that is stationed here?
So long as they do it face-to-face via a Private Party Transfer at an FFL. If the seller ships the gun to the FFL then the roster applies.
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Old 12-29-2014, 6:02 PM
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So long as they do it face-to-face via a Private Party Transfer at an FFL. If the seller ships the gun to the FFL then the roster applies.
Even though the gun is not registered in CA?
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Old 12-29-2014, 6:46 PM
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Even though the gun is not registered in CA?
Correct. It will be registered once you dros it though. Military is not required to register any firearms brought into the state.
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Old 12-29-2014, 10:25 PM
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Thanks!
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Old 03-31-2016, 6:42 PM
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Bear with me here as I'm new to all these CA laws and not used to having all these hoops to jump through.

I've got a question about this: I currently live in SC. I've got an AR that I built here, and it's not on the list. My understanding (from what is listed above) is that I can't bring it with me when I PCS to CA. What if I install a bullet button and use 10-rd mags and bring it? Is that legal?

If I can't bring my "assault weapon" into the state, but am considered a CA resident for gun-buying purposes while on orders in CA, can't I just buy a CA-legal AR while I'm stationed there?
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Old 03-31-2016, 7:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mtmorto View Post
Bear with me here as I'm new to all these CA laws and not used to having all these hoops to jump through.

I've got a question about this: I currently live in SC. I've got an AR that I built here, and it's not on the list. My understanding (from what is listed above) is that I can't bring it with me when I PCS to CA. What if I install a bullet button and use 10-rd mags and bring it? Is that legal?

If I can't bring my "assault weapon" into the state, but am considered a CA resident for gun-buying purposes while on orders in CA, can't I just buy a CA-legal AR while I'm stationed there?
I'm assuming that you're talking about an AR Rifle.

If your lower receiver is not an "Evil by Name" Assault Weapon, then you can either fit it with a bullet button, or make it featureless, and then bring it in with California legal-standard magazines of 10 rounds or less.

If your lower is an "Evil by Name" Assault Weapon, then possession in California is a felony and you can't fix it.
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Old 04-01-2016, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
I'm assuming that you're talking about an AR Rifle.

If your lower receiver is not an "Evil by Name" Assault Weapon, then you can either fit it with a bullet button, or make it featureless, and then bring it in with California legal-standard magazines of 10 rounds or less.

If your lower is an "Evil by Name" Assault Weapon, then possession in California is a felony and you can't fix it.
Yes I am talking about an AR. It isn't "evil by name." That clears things up for me, Rick. Thanks!
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Old 06-30-2016, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
BATF ruled you are not a resident of any other state but PCS state, for gun buying purposes
BATF has ruled that, for gun buying purposes, you are ONLY a resident of the state where you are stationed PCS - for guns, you are NOT a resident of any other state, even though you may still vote, pay taxes, maintain your driver license, and own property there. See the wiki article on residency -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Fe...y_requirements. That means if your PCS orders are to CA, you may not legally buy guns outside of CA.
What about:

18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C): IDENTIFICATION OF TRANSFEREE
27 CFR 178.124: FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD

"Licensees should note that for purposes of the GCA, military personnel may in some cases have two States of residence. For example, a member of the Armed Forces whose permanent duty station is Fort Benning, Georgia, may actually reside in a home in Alabama. For GCA purposes, that individual is a resident of Georgia when he or she is in Georgia and a resident of Alabama when he or she is in Alabama. If such an individual wishes to purchase a firearm in Alabama, he or she must of course comply with the identification document requirement in the same way as any other Alabama resident. "
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Old 07-03-2016, 10:00 AM
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^this
Note: AD 7 years stationed in California, I am a resident of two states.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:30 AM
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I recently inquired about purchasing firearms here in Texas. I took a copy of my orders with me and asked.

The LGS here pointed out that I'm on PCS orders as they state "Ft. Bliss, Texas" this really wasn't explained to us before arriving here. We did ask if we could buy firearms here while on our 1 year tour and the answer is yes. But of course being from CA I wanted to know more.

It was nice to find out that we could and a sigh of relief really. It sucks being a CA gun owner and living in fear of breaking some law we never heard of.

thankfully asking questions isn't illegal. this was also asked here at the PX that sells firearms as well.
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  #32  
Old 09-21-2016, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
I recently inquired about purchasing firearms here in Texas. I took a copy of my orders with me and asked.

The LGS here pointed out that I'm on PCS orders as they state "Ft. Bliss, Texas" this really wasn't explained to us before arriving here. We did ask if we could buy firearms here while on our 1 year tour and the answer is yes. But of course being from CA I wanted to know more.

It was nice to find out that we could and a sigh of relief really. It sucks being a CA gun owner and living in fear of breaking some law we never heard of.

thankfully asking questions isn't illegal. this was also asked here at the PX that sells firearms as well.
Chris,

If you're on PCS orders to "Baja Oklahoma", then you're a resident there for purposes of federal law governing firearms (18 USC 921). Enjoy the freedom while you're there.

But do some planning ahead. California law and federal law do not treat "Residency" the same. If you keep your California-defined residency while away, and then return to the state, then you'll need to comply with PC 27585 when you come back. That means you can't bring your Texas purchased weapons with you, you have to ship them to a California FFL and handguns will need to be on the roster. There are no special provisions for military folks.

On the other hand, if you return to California as a "new resident", then PC 27560 applies. You can bring your new weapons with you and you just have to register them within 60 days. If you're still on active duty, then you are not required to register.

If you follow the PC 27560 procedure when 27585 actually applies, and the weapon is a handgun, then you have committed a felony.
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Old 09-21-2016, 2:58 PM
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Chris,

If you're on PCS orders to "Baja Oklahoma", then you're a resident there for purposes of federal law governing firearms (18 USC 921). Enjoy the freedom while you're there.
I plan on it. please forgive me to chopping up your post. it's only for clarity.


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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
But do some planning ahead. .
planning ahead I have done and I have not bought anything here yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
California law and federal law do not treat "Residency" the same. If you keep your California-defined residency while away, and then return to the state, then you'll need to comply with PC 27585 when you come back. That means you can't bring your Texas purchased weapons with you, you have to ship them to a California FFL and handguns will need to be on the roster. There are no special provisions for military folks.
I have questions of course. does this apply for rifles and shotguns? So any rifles I buy I have to send to a FFL again and wait 10 F****** days? sorry for language because this is stupid.

I don't have to fill out another 4473 since one would have been filled out here in Texas?


handguns I had questions about since most if not all the handguns here in Texas wont be on the "roster". I did plan on picking up a non Californicated Sig226. I have one at home bought in CA and the ones here are no where like what we have at home. I have been confused on the Roster and non Roster handguns. I did not know that applied to military on active duty since we both know that most handguns that are out of state cannot be sold in CA.

Forgive if I'm wrong I thought the Roster didn't apply in regards to purchase of handguns if on active duty. but if I read your reply right it does apply. correct?


as for rifles I wanted to get another 10/22 or a 17 HMR since they are a tad cheaper here. not really needing to get another AR. but in general a rifle is all I was going to get.

I did here about having to go through another background check for any guns purchased out of state because CA is stupid like that. which is completely idiotic. but we know there is no logic left in CA.



I'm in no rush to buy anything at this time.


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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
On the other hand, if you return to California as a "new resident", then PC 27560 applies. You can bring your new weapons with you and you just have to register them within 60 days. If you're still on active duty, then you are not required to register.

If you follow the PC 27560 procedure when 27585 actually applies, and the weapon is a handgun, then you have committed a felony.
Yes I will be returning to this stupid state I have not changed my residency since I have been away.

My orders end at the end of January.

can you give me a summary of PC27585. Because trying to understand this crap gives me a frickin migraine.

I have guns that I have owned in CA and bought there and will be bringing them back with me. I'm not worried about those of course since that's not an issue unless something really stupid has happened since I have been away in regards to bringing your own guns back from a trip.
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Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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Last edited by chris; 09-21-2016 at 3:48 PM..
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  #34  
Old 09-21-2016, 7:18 PM
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can you give me a summary of PC27585. Because trying to understand this crap gives me a frickin migraine.
I have guns that I have owned in CA and bought there and will be bringing them back with me. I'm not worried about those of course since that's not an issue unless something really stupid has happened since I have been away in regards to bringing your own guns back from a trip.


Chris, Don't feel bad. I was a California LEO for more than 30 years. The way the laws are written also gives me headaches.

Here's the nutshell. California defines two very different process for importing weapons into the state. California also defines "Residency" very different from the way the feds define the term.

Penal Code section 27560 defines the importation process for "New Residents." In sum, a new resident can import firearms that are in a California-legal configuration. You can transport them into the state yourself and you have 60 days to register them. The handgun roster does not apply. Military folks get special treatment in that they are not required to register while remaining on active duty.

Penal Code section 27585 defines the importation process for California residents who acquire firearms from outside of California. In sum, you cannot import them yourself. They must be shipped to an FFL for transfer to you inside California. Handguns must be on the roster. Violation is a misdemeanor for long guns (with some felony exceptions) and a felony for a handgun. There is no special treatment for military.
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
I have questions of course. does this apply for rifles and shotguns? So any rifles I buy I have to send to a FFL again and wait 10 F****** days? sorry for language because this is stupid.
PC 27585 does also apply to long guns, however the penalty for violation is a misdemeanor unless there is some other aggravating circumstance (Please refer to PC 27590 for a detailed description of the penalties).
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
I don't have to fill out another 4473 since one would have been filled out here in Texas?
I'm not an FFL, so I defer to forum members who are, but my understanding is that a 4473 is required for the transfer.


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Originally Posted by chris View Post
handguns I had questions about since most if not all the handguns here in Texas wont be on the "roster". I did plan on picking up a non Californicated Sig226. I have one at home bought in CA and the ones here are no where like what we have at home. I have been confused on the Roster and non Roster handguns. I did not know that applied to military on active duty since we both know that most handguns that are out of state cannot be sold in CA.
Here is the big difference between PC 27560 and PC 27585 imports. What you're proposing would be legal under 27560, but would not be legal under 27585.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
Forgive if I'm wrong I thought the Roster didn't apply in regards to purchase of handguns if on active duty. but if I read your reply right it does apply. correct?
There is no roster exemption for active duty. Some folks like to argue that the "for sale to sworn members of these agencies (including military)" language contained in PC 32000(b)(4) permits such a roster exemption, but it's pretty clear that the context of the section refers to law enforcement "sworn" (like CID special agents) rather than all military members.


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Originally Posted by chris View Post
Yes I will be returning to this stupid state I have not changed my residency since I have been away.
Here's is the real crux. This statement places you pretty squarely under PC 27585. The problem here is that if you import under section 27560 when 27585 actually applies, then you're creating some significant criminal liability. The risk of prosecution are small, but things don't turn out well for the few folks that the legal system likes to make examples of (like Bruce Abramski).
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  #35  
Old 09-22-2016, 9:34 AM
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FYI, this is unofficial since it is not in writing, but I called the CA DOJ to ask the question what needs to be done with respect to a military person returning to CA with respect to firearms bought out of state when stationed outside of CA. I was told that CA residency is defined by the CA vehicle code and that CA does not consider a military person stationed out of state to be a CA resident. I was told that the procedure for a person from CA who was in the military stationed out of CA would be to fill out the new resident form. Only CA legal firearms could be brought in, no so-called a-salt weapons, but that firearms brought in would not have to be on the roster.

I was also told that when a military person is stationed in CA, CA does not consider them a resident, but they are allowed to buy firearms.

I am only relaying what I was told, so I can only say what I was told. Any reasoning would be a guess and I can't say that it is actually true or not. It was recommended that if there were any additional questions to ask an attorney, but the CA DOJ can change their view, so I am not sure if that would really help much. I asked the questions as a CA FFL, which may or may not mean anything.
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  #36  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:23 PM
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Forgive me, I am still confused with the whole ca vs fed "residency".

So I joined the military out of California, got stationed in WA and bought a gen4 g26(~2013). The whole time I was stationed else where I kept my ca dl and own property in CA. So now I'm stationed in CA again and brought it with me to CA. Still active duty. Am I legal?I've been here a year now and haven't registered or anything. If I'm not how do I get it legal? Can I ship it to a ffl from my house here in CA? If I am legal but is related to being active duty, what do I need to do if I am getting out in California? Please provide the references too so I can look it up. It seems as though pc27585 doesn't apply to me since I bought the gun prior to 2015. Also, how do I prove that? I didn't keep any receipt.
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:03 PM
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Fizzman, I'm in almost exactly the same situation - i.e. maintain property/family in CA but I'm on PCS orders to a command homeported in WA. Hoping to see an authoritative response to your question soon.
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