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  #1  
Old 10-02-2013, 3:01 AM
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Default M&P Trigger get lighter?

I have an M&P9 that I really like. Like the ergo's, like the reliability of it. The only thing that kind of gets me is the heavy trigger pull. I ran mine through a pistol course this weekend and I put +/- 550 rounds through it. No malfunctions what so ever. Great gun to say the least. Only issue I found is that the trigger is so freakin' heavy! I have a SIG and my wife has a Glock. Both triggers on those guns are around 4 pounds (SIG of course in single action). The M&P leans a little closer to the SIG's double action.

I have been reading online, and there are accounts that the trigger on the M&P lightens up as it breaks in. At this point, I am approaching 1000 rounds, and although the trigger feels smoother, its still heavy. Does this issue solve itself or do I gotta spring for the APEX kit?
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Old 10-02-2013, 3:07 AM
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Apex


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Old 10-02-2013, 5:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Monkeywrench View Post
I have an M&P9 that I really like. Like the ergo's, like the reliability of it. The only thing that kind of gets me is the heavy trigger pull. I ran mine through a pistol course this weekend and I put +/- 550 rounds through it. No malfunctions what so ever. Great gun to say the least. Only issue I found is that the trigger is so freakin' heavy! I have a SIG and my wife has a Glock. Both triggers on those guns are around 4 pounds (SIG of course in single action). The M&P leans a little closer to the SIG's double action.

I have been reading online, and there are accounts that the trigger on the M&P lightens up as it breaks in. At this point, I am approaching 1000 rounds, and although the trigger feels smoother, its still heavy. Does this issue solve itself or do I gotta spring for the APEX kit?
My M&P 9c has the standard trigger and it's about 6 1/2 pounds no where near the 10 or so pounds I expect the Sig double action to have. If it's a lot more than that maybe it needs a repair. The Apex kits can lighten and also shorten the pulls I believe. My only complaint it the reset I intend to get that solved at some point.
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Old 10-02-2013, 8:02 AM
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Any word yet on availability of APEX kits for current production (2013) of M&Ps?
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Old 10-02-2013, 8:24 AM
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I just added the Apex sear and that already made a big difference. I also added a USB kit to take out the gritinness of the trigger.
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Old 10-02-2013, 9:11 AM
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OP, it may be worth checking the SKU number for your pistol, if you still have the factory box with the labels. If you somehow got a MA-compliant version (SKU 109351 for full-size M&P9), those come from the factory with a 10lb trigger pull because MA requires it. The CA-compliant and free state versions only have a 6.5lb pull.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:23 AM
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+1 on the grittiness. It is more pronounced when I dry fire. I've got 200 rounds through mine. If it doesn't improve, I'm going to order the apex kit. According to my LGS, they're available now. My M&P is a CA compliant built in June 2013.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:29 AM
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Default My M&Ps

I ended up (after about 2000 rounds) putting the APEX sear in my M&P and it lightened the pull exactly where it feels good to me (never have checked the weight but my guess is about 5lbs). I also have put the APEX poly trigger on both of my M&Ps and it feels so much better when I shoot alot. The hinged trigger always made my finger hurt by the end of a session (300-400 rounds or so) but the poly trigger is really comfortable. The rest of the APEX products (springs, striker block, etc) can also be used to fine tune your pistol - but for me the sear did the trick.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:35 AM
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IMO all you need is the Apex sear to have a great M&P trigger. It reduces the stock 6lb. trigger pull down to ~4 lbs., which is perfect for me.
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Old 10-02-2013, 1:28 PM
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How are you liking it overall? I was at bass pro yesterday and im really considering buying one. Any problems aside from the trigger?
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Old 10-02-2013, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kellyhachihachi View Post
How are you liking it overall? I was at bass pro yesterday and im really considering buying one. Any problems aside from the trigger?
Honestly, I love it. Its a great gun. The ergos are great, and its reliable. My hand falls right in between the medium and large back straps, but I am doing just fine with the medium. It is now - with a Streamlight TLR-1 - my primary HD gun.

If I am shooting for accuracy (controlled un timed shots), the trigger really isnt that bad. But If I am shooting dynamically, I tend to shoot left due to yanking on that heavy trigger.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2013, 1:38 PM
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Do bear in mind the reducing the trigger pull weight for a gun that could be used for self defense is a bad idea.

I would it a 1000 round trigger job. Then consider the full Apex trigger job or spend the money on range time and ammunition.

That's actually what I did.

The M&P is a great gun. So far no problems at all. A little over 2500 rounds through it in maybe 3 months.
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  #13  
Old 10-02-2013, 1:41 PM
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Confucius say "Man who can only shoot light trigger, can only shoot light trigger. Man who can shoot heavy trigger, can shoot any gun."
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Old 10-02-2013, 2:13 PM
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ive had my M&P 9 for about 2-3 weeks. It was my first pistol purchase and first gun purchase and is my range gun and HD gun (for now). I have to say I love the thing. it is easy to clean, easy to shoot, will shoot anything you put in it, and feels great in hand. I have put about 700 rounds threw it so far ( WWB ) with 1 failure to feed in the first 100 rounds, but after cutting 2 coils off the springs in my clips, has not failed to feed again. plus its so much easier to load. I prefer the small grips because it seems to feel very similar in hand to my dads colt government model 1911. only thing im gona do to it is throw on some talon grips. the one and only complaint i have is the one everyone seems to have, the "gritty trigger pull". i saw something on youtube saying that if you take the trigger apart and polish all the parts that it will fix the gritty fealing. i may try doing that one of these days.
over all I give the gun a 9.5 out of 10. it will be deserving of a 10 out of 10 when the clips are readily available and when the grittiness of trigger pull is fixed. . at least in my mind.
that being said , IMHO , the trigger should loosen up after a few hundred more rounds, mine did. maby you got a MA gun ????
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2013, 4:52 PM
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This is good to hear ... Im debating between a 1911, walther p99, went to bass pro yesterday and he showed me the M&P it felt really nice in my hands all around, so now im leaning twords that or.. dare i say... a glock (hate glocks triggers) haha


Did you guys get the 4.25 barrels or the 5? it seems the 5 inch are a little less common, and do you guys mind if i ask how much you picked yours up for?
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Old 10-02-2013, 8:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyhachihachi View Post
This is good to hear ... Im debating between a 1911, walther p99, went to bass pro yesterday and he showed me the M&P it felt really nice in my hands all around, so now im leaning twords that or.. dare i say... a glock (hate glocks triggers) haha


Did you guys get the 4.25 barrels or the 5? it seems the 5 inch are a little less common, and do you guys mind if i ask how much you picked yours up for?
I got the standard 4.25. If I'm not mistaken, the 5" comes on the pro series and I believe that has to be SSE'd. I picked mine up at turners for $499 I think.
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Old 10-02-2013, 8:29 PM
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i did the APEX trigger kit on a 45 the only thing i didnt like is you cant feel the reset
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Old 10-02-2013, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pastureofmuppets View Post
Do bear in mind the reducing the trigger pull weight for a gun that could be used for self defense is a bad idea.

I would it a 1000 round trigger job. Then consider the full Apex trigger job or spend the money on range time and ammunition.

That's actually what I did.

The M&P is a great gun. So far no problems at all. A little over 2500 rounds through it in maybe 3 months.
I was always curious about that statement since I've read it countless times before. Was there a specific case where someone got into trouble for a reduced trigger pull during a good shoot?
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Old 10-03-2013, 4:31 PM
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I got mine at Turners for $499. It had the 4.25" barrel. I like the ergonomics better than Glock so it was the right choice for me. It'll be my EDC when I get my CCW.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Frank Magliato vs. People of New York. Frank was facing a goon armed with a 24 inch police baton, charging him from across the street, and shouting that he intended to kill him. Mr. Magliato then drew his legally-carried .38 caliber revolver, cocked the hammer in an attempt to intimidate his attacker, (Just as he had been taught by movies and TV) and, at a distance of between 30 and 40 feet, shot the man between the eyes, killing him instantly.

Good shoot right? One problem. Mr. Magliato testified at his own trial that the gun fired by accident. He willfully created a hair-trigger condition in his gun. He got 15 to Life, though that was later reduced.
There was also the Glock case in New York, where IIRC a cop was shot someone and the gun was blamed rather than his training, hence the term "New York Trigger". Glock actually changed it's triggers on models for New York LE to mimic a double action revolver.

Anyway, if you are unfortunate enough to actually have to shoot someone, even if you avoid a criminal conviction, you can safely bet there will be a civil case following and that will probably going for negligence.

In any event, your firearm is evidence. It could well get passed around to show how easy it is to drop the hammer/striker. It could well have the trigger pull tested and compared to the spec sheet from the manufacturer.

From your own point of view, the trigger weight is set for a reason. A mixture of research, engineering and lawyers. If a cop carries a stock M&P with a 6.5 LB trigger pull, and he is considered a professional... why are you carrying a lighter trigger?

"So Mr Smith, can you tell me what experience you have know more about the appropriate trigger pull weight on pistol than Smith And Wesson's design team?"

Bottom line, under stress **** happens, and accidentally pulling the trigger because under adrenaline trigger discipline has gone, then something makes you or your not so well trained partner/son/daughter/ etc jump... ugh.

Anyone I personally know who has done the Apex job has gotten the extra parts to bring the pull back to spec.

Personally, I go with the "it's a trigger" approach. People get all kinds of exacting over it and spend silly money on something that isn't really an issue. If you want an amazing trigger out of the box for static paper at the range, I say drop the coin on a poly Walther or a 1911 and skip the M&P. If you want audible or tactile reset, get a Glock. I wouldn't pay M&P plus Apex money plus time spent for a Glock. I would just buy a Glock and go push lead through it.

If you want a point of view that makes some people angry, audible and tactile reset on a trigger are the equivalent of training wheels on a bike.

Of course, if the gun only ever see's the range for fun or competition for modified or an experiment or whatever... go nuts.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:24 AM
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Dry fire it several thousand times. This can be done a few minutes a day for a week.
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Old 10-04-2013, 8:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pastureofmuppets View Post
There was also the Glock case in New York, where IIRC a cop was shot someone and the gun was blamed rather than his training, hence the term "New York Trigger". Glock actually changed it's triggers on models for New York LE to mimic a double action revolver.

Anyway, if you are unfortunate enough to actually have to shoot someone, even if you avoid a criminal conviction, you can safely bet there will be a civil case following and that will probably going for negligence.

In any event, your firearm is evidence. It could well get passed around to show how easy it is to drop the hammer/striker. It could well have the trigger pull tested and compared to the spec sheet from the manufacturer.

From your own point of view, the trigger weight is set for a reason. A mixture of research, engineering and lawyers. If a cop carries a stock M&P with a 6.5 LB trigger pull, and he is considered a professional... why are you carrying a lighter trigger?

"So Mr Smith, can you tell me what experience you have know more about the appropriate trigger pull weight on pistol than Smith And Wesson's design team?"

Bottom line, under stress **** happens, and accidentally pulling the trigger because under adrenaline trigger discipline has gone, then something makes you or your not so well trained partner/son/daughter/ etc jump... ugh.

Anyone I personally know who has done the Apex job has gotten the extra parts to bring the pull back to spec.

Personally, I go with the "it's a trigger" approach. People get all kinds of exacting over it and spend silly money on something that isn't really an issue. If you want an amazing trigger out of the box for static paper at the range, I say drop the coin on a poly Walther or a 1911 and skip the M&P. If you want audible or tactile reset, get a Glock. I wouldn't pay M&P plus Apex money plus time spent for a Glock. I would just buy a Glock and go push lead through it.

If you want a point of view that makes some people angry, audible and tactile reset on a trigger are the equivalent of training wheels on a bike.

Of course, if the gun only ever see's the range for fun or competition for modified or an experiment or whatever... go nuts.
1) An accidental firing is something totally different than lightening your trigger pull. True, lightening your trigger pull can lead to an accidental firing... if you don't train and you decide to keep your finger on the trigger when you shouldn't.

2) Don't cock the hammer of a revolver for any reason in a SD situation. If you have that much time and he is that far away, you can most likely get away. Definitely don't it to intimidate.

3) There is a DCAEK, if you were unaware stands for Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit... As in APEX intends this kit to be used for people carrying a firearm everyday. If you don't like how light that trigger is fine, but it's perfectly acceptable for HD, CCW, or for Officers.

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Old 10-04-2013, 8:34 AM
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Yes,M&P trigger do tend to get better with use. I have at least 3 of them. All came with somewhat heavy trigger which stabilized at about 6.5 lb.
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:07 AM
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get the Apex Competition carry kit & RAM , I have one on my M&P9 and the trigger is so crisp and breaks clean at 3.5lbs . LOVE IT!
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:58 AM
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I have been looking around (Smiths website,bass pro, buds, etc etc) and i read that some say "Double Action only" "with magazine lock and internal lock" i think one even said "single shot only" what do all of those mean exactly? I understand double action on a revolver, and on a semi auto with an external hammer but what do they mean by double action ONLY?
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Old 10-04-2013, 1:02 PM
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I've had mine just over a month. Took some 320 to the trigger bar where the SB rides and got rid of most of the grittiness by simply "buffing" the edge. I can now definitely feel the takeup, the SB engagement, then the sear engagement as distinctly different. It's still a good pull to fire.

The trigger pull is due partly to the ramp on the sear causing you to complete the cocking of the striker (albeit a very small amount).

If you haven't seen it before, here's a vid of the comparison of the different sears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zee6Oriz6Lw
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Old 10-04-2013, 6:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatisthis? View Post
1) An accidental firing is something totally different than lightening your trigger pull. True, lightening your trigger pull can lead to an accidental firing... if you don't train and you decide to keep your finger on the trigger when you shouldn't.
Of course, but go see what happens, in particular on the civil side when an attorney is trying to get negligence settlement. I go with take away anything that can be used to make you look like you could have made a mistake.

Let's also face it, most people don't train.

Quote:
2) Don't cock the hammer of a revolver for any reason in a SD situation. If you have that much time and he is that far away, you can most likely get away. Definitely don't it to intimidate.
Of course. He made a major error and learned about it in court. I was using it as an example of how people get screwed for negligence, or actually are negligent based on trigger weight.


Quote:
3) There is a DCAEK, if you were unaware stands for Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit... As in APEX intends this kit to be used for people carrying a firearm everyday. If you don't like how light that trigger is fine, but it's perfectly acceptable for HD, CCW, or for Officers.
Sure, if you want to get into the semantics. But you are still going to have to explain in court what that means and why it's better than S&W intended.

This is my personal opinion: screw that. The more that has to be said in court to defend actions is a bad thing. Ask a defense attorney - I'm just a guy on the internet.

If people disagree and want to do whatever, that's fine - it's their life and mine is mine.
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Old 10-04-2013, 7:47 PM
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Of course, but go see what happens, in particular on the civil side when an attorney is trying to get negligence settlement. I go with take away anything that can be used to make you look like you could have made a mistake.

Let's also face it, most people don't train.



Of course. He made a major error and learned about it in court. I was using it as an example of how people get screwed for negligence, or actually are negligent based on trigger weight.




Sure, if you want to get into the semantics. But you are still going to have to explain in court what that means and why it's better than S&W intended.

This is my personal opinion: screw that. The more that has to be said in court to defend actions is a bad thing. Ask a defense attorney - I'm just a guy on the internet.

If people disagree and want to do whatever, that's fine - it's their life and mine is mine.
Totally understandable. And I think that's an absolutely fantastic way of going about it. Civil court will be a biatch in any shooting, whether 100% justified or not. But I'm more worried about two things.
1) ensuring that the incident 100% should have been handled with lethal force
2) that in that process, no one else is hurt by my actions

I'm not advocating using the Apex competition kit or anything that makes the trigger ridiculously light but the Apex DCAEK is really nice and it still isn't so light of a trigger that slight pressure makes it go off.

agree to disagree if you don't like what I just said. Lol
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Old 10-05-2013, 4:50 AM
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Totally understandable. And I think that's an absolutely fantastic way of going about it. Civil court will be a biatch in any shooting, whether 100% justified or not. But I'm more worried about two things.
1) ensuring that the incident 100% should have been handled with lethal force
2) that in that process, no one else is hurt by my actions

I'm not advocating using the Apex competition kit or anything that makes the trigger ridiculously light but the Apex DCAEK is really nice and it still isn't so light of a trigger that slight pressure makes it go off.

agree to disagree if you don't like what I just said. Lol
Bang on the money with the worries. Those are the priorities. I stand by what I said, but I do see your point. I haven't actually shot the Apex DCAEK, I would quite like to out of curiosity. Perhaps if I get another M&P I will throw it on there for comparison.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:21 AM
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I've been looking at these APEX kits for my M&P .40 and it seems there is a little overlap in the two kits.

What is the difference in the DCAEK and the FORWARD SET SEAR AND TRIGGER KIT?

From what I'm reading the DCAEK reduces trigger travel and makes is smoother. The Forward Set and trigger kit moves the trigger break forward? Isn't that the same as reducing the travel?
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:59 AM
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It will get smoother as you put rounds through it. Lighter? Not so much.

My duty M&P .45 has a 7lb trigger pull.

I bought a M&P .45 myself that was 9.5lbs out the box. I installed an Apex kit and now it's 4lb 11 oz.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:05 AM
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Can't say if it has really gotten lighter since it was new, didn't have a scale back then. Just checked my M&P9 full size and its pulling at 5.5lbs no aftermarket parts. ~2000rds through it.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:08 AM
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Yes, they do tend to get lighter. At least 3 of mine came from the factory with over 7.5 lb pull out of the box, but all of them smoothened out and settled at about 6.5 lb pull after about 1500 pulls.

I do have a scale, and I chekced the numbers.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:17 AM
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I put the apex DCEK on my full size M&P .40 and love it. My compact .40 doesn't have it, there is a huge difference. I will say the my shield in .40 has a greatly improved trigger over the stock compact one.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:36 AM
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Probably the best thing you can do to improve your M&P is to pick up the Apex goodies. The DCAEK kit is great, so is the RAM. I haven't played with their forward set trigger because I never had a problem with my M&P trigger. Now that I picked up a Shield I'll be installing their kit again.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeMikeB View Post
I've been looking at these APEX kits for my M&P .40 and it seems there is a little overlap in the two kits.

What is the difference in the DCAEK and the FORWARD SET SEAR AND TRIGGER KIT?

From what I'm reading the DCAEK reduces trigger travel and makes is smoother. The Forward Set and trigger kit moves the trigger break forward? Isn't that the same as reducing the travel?
The D/C AEK is their standard offering for folks who just want a cleaner trigger stroke and better letoff. They even include a heavier, than stock, spring to bring the letoff back to the 5.5lb factory spec (4-4.5lbs w/factory spring). The AEK doesn't reduce take-up, overtravel, or reset distance.

Adding the polymer AEK trigger reduces overtravel...after the sear releases

The FSS uses a different sear and striker block than the AEK. Take-up, overtravel and reset distances are dramatically reduced...much like the feel of a 1911. A grain of sand in front of the trigger will stop the it from resetting...well, it was a large grain

If you like shooting fast, while maintaining accuracy, and use a rolling letoff, the FSS will really suit your technique
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:06 PM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
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The FSS and trigger kit removes most of the take up and over travel. They claim it makes the trigger much closer to a 1911 which it doesn't because a 1911 trigger sits at the back of the trigger guard, not at the front. However, the stock trigger has a long take up and a considerable over travel.

Even after 10,000 rounds, you can't get rid of the take up and over travel, but you will certainly know exactly where the trigger breaks and you'll be able to shoot it accurately when you slow fire. My M&P40 had and still has about a 4.3 lb break and it breaks like a snapping a glass rod. There was a tiny bit of grit early on, but that was soon gone. Shooting 100-200 rounds a week made dry firing unnecessary and I didn't shoot in order to get rid of the grit, it was just a side benefit.

I tried out some recent M&P9's and 40's locally and in Wichita and El Paso this year. They did not feel any lighter in the trigger and one had no grit while the other had a little grit. I tried a M&P45 locally and it was by far the grittiest M&P trigger I've ever felt. Would that stop me from buying it? No because I know how to get rid of it at no cost and very little time, but to the uninitiated, it would be a turn-off.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
The D/C AEK is their standard offering for folks who just want a cleaner trigger stroke and better letoff. They even include a heavier, than stock, spring to bring the letoff back to the 5.5lb factory spec (4-4.5lbs w/factory spring). The AEK doesn't reduce take-up, overtravel, or reset distance.

Adding the polymer AEK trigger reduces overtravel...after the sear releases

The FSS uses a different sear and striker block than the AEK. Take-up, overtravel and reset distances are dramatically reduced...much like the feel of a 1911. A grain of sand in front of the trigger will stop the it from resetting...well, it was a large grain

If you like shooting fast, while maintaining accuracy, and use a rolling letoff, the FSS will really suit your technique

Thanks that explains it a little more. After reading your explanation and then going back to the APEX site it's a little more clear.

Basically what I'm looking for is to have my M&P 40 be my HD weapon that I can also use for some action pistol shooting at the local range. My thought behind this is that by doing the action pistol shooting it will make me extremely proficient with this pistol and it will be my 'go to pistol'.

It's also currently my 'only' pistol.

Eventually if I get more serious in the action shooting, I will get a comp only pistol but for now I only have the one.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bako88fan View Post
+1 on the grittiness. It is more pronounced when I dry fire. I've got 200 rounds through mine. If it doesn't improve, I'm going to order the apex kit. According to my LGS, they're available now. My M&P is a CA compliant built in June 2013.
My M&P Pro was gritty out of the box. It goes away eventually.

Give it time. 200 rounds is nothing. Dry fire the **** out of it.
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Old 12-10-2013, 1:08 PM
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I have the Apex DCAEK and RAM for both my M&P9 FS and C... it's probably the only suitable trigger setup for a SD/HD gun, as that's what they were designed for. The lighter setups are for competition, mostly.

IIRC, the trigger grit comes from the trigger bar dragging on the factory striker block, which the Apex USB was designed to remedy.

Newer M&P pistols seem to have an updated trigger design, which is a bit crisper and less "mushy" than the older ones, but once you go Apex you won't care, it's the way you'll want it.
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