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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 08-29-2013, 5:23 PM
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thanks for all the input.

The guy is NOT a Calgunner, we have more sense; right?

He builds hot rods, I would often visit and check his latest project.

I'm not going to be visiting any more. What if the house goes down while I'm there? Would be inconvenient.
  #42  
Old 08-29-2013, 5:46 PM
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I hope he never gets in trouble. I can just see this exploding and Obama or Feinstein giving a speech about how we need to get rid of CCWs as they just allow drug dealers and gangbangers the opportunity to carry a gun.
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  #43  
Old 08-29-2013, 6:22 PM
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I know a guy that gave up his ccw to get a pot card. He was military and retired cdc. He uses it to help with severe back pain and it allows him to cut way back on big pharma's poison's. I was disappointed when he told me he is no longer licensed to carry. He is the kind of guy you want to have a gun.
  #44  
Old 08-29-2013, 7:24 PM
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Bweise TY for your observation

But I'm always surprised at everyone's response on here when it comes to pot. I mean how many crazy pot heads have you seen? Besides the Mexican Cartel people the average American stoner is pretty relaxed. I am all about less government and less laws.

Interesting Armed while committing Federal crime reality. But as far as the LTC and Pot Card I see no issue on the state level.

Don't like pot don't smoke it . Don't want to own guns don't buy one. Don't tell me what I can or can't do b/c it offends your delicate sensibilities.. JMHO.
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Last edited by Ninety; 08-29-2013 at 7:52 PM..
  #45  
Old 08-29-2013, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
Bweise TY for your observation

But I'm always surprised at everyone's response on here when it comes to pot. I mean how many crazy pot heads have you seen? Besides the Mexican Cartel people the average American stoner is pretty relaxed. I am all about less government and less laws.

Interesting Armed while committing Federal crime reality. But as far as the LTC and Pot Card I see no issue on the state level.

Don't like pot don't smoke it . Don't want to own guns don't buy one. Don't tell me what I can or can't do b/c it offends your delicate sensibilities.. JMHO.
Totally agree.

To add, the LTC questionnaire asks if you USE any drugs. If hes growing, hes not necessarily using. More power to him, the War on Drugs is a farce that as up-armed the police on orders of magnitude more than the run of the mill pot smoker or non-cartel grower.

If he is selling to dispensaries, I have ZERO issue with it. If he got a CCW so that he can sell weight to non-licensed street dealers... Well, I have a problem as he shouldn't be carrying a weapon if he has the lack of judgement to purposefully put himself in dangerous situations.
  #46  
Old 08-30-2013, 9:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Wicked Pete View Post
thanks for all the input.

The guy is NOT a Calgunner, we have more sense; right?

He builds hot rods, I would often visit and check his latest project.

I'm not going to be visiting any more. What if the house goes down while I'm there? Would be inconvenient.
Lets see, this guy was issued a card in Butte County, builds hot rods and grows at his house, and sells to dispensary's.

I'm thinking all you need left to do to be a true friend is provide his initials and he will be on his way to jail.

You truly are wicked, Pete.
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  #47  
Old 09-04-2013, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Master-Blaster View Post
Puff puff,pass...me some more mags,those permits sir,and a few more possibilities.I'm neither pro/con,do care or could care less about 50/50.So imo just be logical captain like Spock.See,everyone can relate to that,hippie or hillbilly.
After thinking it over, my comment might have been a bit harsh. Comment removed.
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  #48  
Old 09-04-2013, 6:14 PM
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my guess is that the card isn't valid
  #49  
Old 09-04-2013, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RobG View Post
Epic; weed dealer in Butte has CCW, meanwhile the law abiding citizens of Yolo (my county) county.....
The fact he's a weed dealer is probably how he got it, interestingly enough.

The only thing that's keeping me from at least applying is the cost of the stupid thing. I'm looking at around 200+ just in fees and LiveScan, and the course is going to run me 100. Probably close to 350 bucks that I simply do not have, just to exercise the right I can exercise openly without the BS in my home state.

Which is hilarious. PA has open carry. No residential restrictions. No permit needed unless you're carrying in a car or Philly. Concealed carry would run me something like 30 bucks. Shall issue.

Then I come here and I have to spend half my monthly income to have a shot in hell of probably getting told "no" and getting none of it back.

GG.
  #50  
Old 09-06-2013, 12:09 PM
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  #51  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
I am of the libertarian view that as long as you are not hurting anyone or infringing on their rights, whatever you want to do with your life should be fine and dandy. There is a move towards de-criminalization of harmless recreational drugs that are no different than alcohol - just tax the sale and distribution and watch the federal deficit evaporate.
So let me get this straight: you're a libertarian who believes the government should butt out of people's lives, but on the other hand, you also believe the government should have the power to coercively tax the snot out of free enterprise in order to offset massive government spending.
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  #52  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
For those disgusted or amazed that someone might have a LTC and a 215 card, think about this.

If we lived in a 'shall issue' state, the Sheriff's discretion would never enter into the debate as to whether an applicant should or shouldnt be issued a license. The only thing that would disqualify the applicant would be whether or not they were a prohibited person-



Note that one would have to be an 'unlawful user' or addicted... Holding a 'pot' card wouldnt disqualify you, unless it could be proved that you were addicted.
So, if this sort of liberty is a problem for you, you kind of have to ask yourself just where you stand on the 2A. Some may find that it is perfectly okay to poke holes in it to satisfy their desire to disarm what they believe are 'undesireables'... which invariably leads to progressive incrementalism that denies people rights for no other reason than bigotry.
Could not agree more! "Freedom! Constitution! Liberty!" how do you feel about pot smokers? "Illegal!!!, Arrest them, addicts, losers!!!", Now lets go have a beer!
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  #53  
Old 09-19-2013, 2:26 PM
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I would certainly myob.

How many CCW's are alcoholics?
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  #54  
Old 09-19-2013, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by artoaster View Post
I would certainly myob.

How many CCW's are alcoholics?
The difference is that MJ is illegal federally. Alcohol is not.

Federal felony committed with a firearm enhancement.
  #55  
Old 09-19-2013, 2:37 PM
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Someone correct me if wrong but isn't it illegal to sell your perscription medicine to others?

I'm not knockin the guy for having both the MJ card and CCW. I'm not even knockin him for selling his product to a willing consumer.. but ya...

Last edited by kentactic; 09-19-2013 at 2:40 PM..
  #56  
Old 09-19-2013, 2:44 PM
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Well, there is nothing anonymous about you, SNITCH!
snitches get stiches
  #57  
Old 09-19-2013, 2:55 PM
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It's not a prescription (those that say they are the same thing obviously don't understand the legal differences between the two), so that law would not apply. Furthermore, 215 specifically outlines and decriminalizes selling to a dispensary or other card holders. As for cross referencing databases, there are two reasons this would slip by in a background check. First, the 215 database is not tied to background checks or the DROS system at this time. It doesn't even contain patient names, only photos and the information found on the card (which does not include any identifying info other than the photo). Unless they run facial recognition, there is no way to search for a specific person. Second, there are two types of cards. There is the 215 card that goes in the database, and there are doctor supplied cards which do not. The only difference between the cards is that during an arrest the police will detain a doctor card holder until it can be verified by the police that the recommendation is legitimate. A state card can be checked instantly through the database.

All that being said, and my personal belief that I would rather have stoners with guns than lushes with guns, the Feds do consider having a card (either kind) and a gun to be a felony. Just not worth it.
  #58  
Old 09-19-2013, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 67goat View Post
First, the 215 database is not tied to background checks or the DROS system at this time. It doesn't even contain patient names, only photos and the information found on the card (which does not include any identifying info other than the photo). Unless they run facial recognition, there is no way to search for a specific person.
Actually, recommendations letters, not cards have a color photo copy of your drivers license on it. The cards are a little gimmick to get you to spend a couple dollars more, the card has no legal basis. The recommendation letter has a legal embossed stamp on it from the doctor also.
  #59  
Old 09-19-2013, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
The difference is that MJ is illegal federally. Alcohol is not.

Federal felony committed with a firearm enhancement.
Yes, I'm very aware of the difference pointed out above. The difference however is that alcohol is responsible for much violence whereas you would find statistically MJ is not. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

But, those are the rules of society and let it be said that doesn't mean that the rules are worthy of wisdom or effectiveness.
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  #60  
Old 09-19-2013, 5:23 PM
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I don't think that people addicted to drugs should have guns.
  #61  
Old 09-19-2013, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
I don't think that people addicted to drugs should have guns.
I sure as hell hope you didn't say that in the vicinity of the coffee maker...

We also need to keep in mind that there is a difference between a user of a substance, a person that is physically dependent on it and someone that is addicted (a positive mental response to the substance even if it causes negative issues that severely effect their life) to it.

You can use and not be dependent or addicted.

You can be dependent and not use.

You can be addicted and not use or be dependent.

Alcohol and Opiates have the ability to cause both life threatening dependence issues so Ill focus on them. Both of these substances can be used without dependence issues or addiction when used moderately and infrequently. Conversely, even short term moderate to heavy use can and usually does result in dependence, dependence means that without the drug you will go into physical withdrawl. All this can happen without being addicted to it (although thats ear impossible with alcohol because the user typically gets addicted prior to having dependency issues). A person can become dependent on opiates while in the hospital ICU after a bad accident where heavy doses of opiates are administered for sometimes months on end 24/7. These people may not even like the drugs but their body needs it to stave of withdrawl.

Addiction is different and why Im making it clear so people don't conflate things. Addicts LIKE getting high and will do it even if it destroys their life and the lives of others around them.

There are many people that need to take a medication for a real health issue and are not ADDICTED to it although in some situations, the can be dependent on that medication. I see nothing wrong with a dependent person owning a weapon so long as the use of the drug does not make them unsafe while carrying or shooting. Many people take methadone and while it is an opiate, it doesn't get the user high and normal decision making is indistinguishable from a non-user so long as the dosage has been stabilized for a few days. A portion of those people are most definitely dependent but not addicted as methadone is used as a chronic pain medication that doesn't have the same effects as oxycotin.

With all that said, MJ is no different. Some may use it to sleep, but dont carry if they have used it. Whats the difference from someone that takes Ambien and carries the next day after the drug has worn off? Nothing IMO.

There is a lot more to drug usage than the strung out junkies you see walking the street in the middle of the night. For those that are responsible with their medication usage, they should have every right in the world to carry a weapon to protect themselves.
  #62  
Old 09-19-2013, 6:38 PM
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^ Smoke a bowl and settle down, you are taking your chemical dependency way to seriously.

The first sign of addiction is denial that you have a problem.
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Old 09-19-2013, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
^ Smoke a bowl and settle down, you are taking your chemical dependency way to seriously.

The first sign of addiction is denial that you have a problem.
I dont do drugs, I DID get a bachelors in psychology though and we kinda talked about that stuff from time to time.

Creating opinions based on a lack of education is really no different than gun grabbers saying an AR is a machine gun. They may look similar, but they are completely different.

There is always the alternative that you really don't give a sht about the differences and will maintain that opinion. At least you've been told there is a difference and if you choose to disregard it, then it only your stubborness or ignorance to blame.
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Old 09-19-2013, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by VendetAR View Post
I dont do drugs, I DID get a bachelors in psychology though and we kinda talked about that stuff from time to time.

Creating opinions based on a lack of education is really no different than gun grabbers saying an AR is a machine gun. They may look similar, but they are completely different.

There is always the alternative that you really don't give a sht about the differences and will maintain that opinion. At least you've been told there is a difference and if you choose to disregard it, then it only your stubborness or ignorance to blame.
Oh, so you were brainwashed by a college psych professor. LOL!

Welcome to the standards of liberal, progressive thought .
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Old 09-19-2013, 7:02 PM
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Ehh, I have a PhD in psychology when I am on the internetz.


Since your don't use any drugs :wink wink: have your "friend" ask himself these questions


Quote:
Perhaps you admit you have a problem with drugs, but you don’t consider yourself an addict.
All of us have preconceived ideas about what an addict is. There is nothing shameful about being
an addict once you begin to take positive action. If you can identify with our problems, you may
be able to identify with our solution. The following questions were written by recovering addicts
in Narcotics Anonymous. If you have doubts about whether or not you’re an addict, take a few
moments to read the questions below and answer them as honestly as you can.


1. Do you ever use alone? Yes  No 

2. Have you ever substituted one drug for another, thinking that one particular drug was the problem? Yes  No 

3. Have you ever manipulated or lied to a doctor to obtain prescription drugs? Yes  No 

4. Have you ever stolen drugs or stolen to obtain drugs? Yes  No 

5. Do you regularly use a drug when you wake up or when you go to bed? Yes  No 

6. Have you ever taken one drug to overcome the effects of another? Yes  No 

7. Do you avoid people or places that do not approve of you using drugs? Yes  No 

8. Have you ever used a drug without knowing what it was or what it would do to you? Yes  No 

9. Has your job or school performance ever suffered from the effects of your drug use? Yes  No 

10. Have you ever been arrested as a result of using drugs? Yes  No 

11. Have you ever lied about what or how much you use? Yes  No 

12. Do you put the purchase of drugs ahead of your financial responsibilities? Yes  No 

13. Have you ever tried to stop or control your using? Yes  No 

14. Have you ever been in a jail, hospital, or drug rehabilitation center because of your using? Yes  No 

15. Does using interfere with your sleeping or eating? Yes  No 

16. Does the thought of running out of drugs terrify you? Yes  No 

17. Do you feel it is impossible for you to live without drugs? Yes  No 

18. Do you ever question your own sanity? Yes  No 

19. Is your drug use making life at home unhappy? Yes  No 

20. Have you ever thought you couldn’t fit in or have a good time without drugs? Yes  No 

21. Have you ever felt defensive, guilty, or ashamed about your using? Yes  No 

22. Do you think a lot about drugs? Yes  No 

23. Have you had irrational or indefinable fears? Yes  No 

24. Has using affected your sexual relationships? Yes  No 

25. Have you ever taken drugs you didn’t prefer? Yes  No 

26. Have you ever used drugs because of emotional pain or stress? Yes  No 

27. Have you ever overdosed on any drugs? Yes  No 

28. Do you continue to use despite negative consequences? Yes  No 

29. Do you think you might have a drug problem? Yes  No 
  #66  
Old 09-19-2013, 7:08 PM
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Oh, so you were brainwashed by a college psych professor. LOL!

Welcome to the standards of liberal, progressive thought .
If that was the case I would have stayed in the academic world instead of becoming an entrepreneur who is only in it for the money.

I did however learn a thing or to about the physiology of the brain along the way, how a few pharmacology classes and substance abuse courses made me a leftist zombie though. I'll never know
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Old 09-19-2013, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by VendetAR View Post
I sure as hell hope you didn't say that in the vicinity of the coffee maker...

We also need to keep in mind that there is a difference between a user of a substance, a person that is physically dependent on it and someone that is addicted (a positive mental response to the substance even if it causes negative issues that severely effect their life) to it.

You can use and not be dependent or addicted.

You can be dependent and not use.

You can be addicted and not use or be dependent.

Alcohol and Opiates have the ability to cause both life threatening dependence issues so Ill focus on them. Both of these substances can be used without dependence issues or addiction when used moderately and infrequently. Conversely, even short term moderate to heavy use can and usually does result in dependence, dependence means that without the drug you will go into physical withdrawl. All this can happen without being addicted to it (although thats ear impossible with alcohol because the user typically gets addicted prior to having dependency issues). A person can become dependent on opiates while in the hospital ICU after a bad accident where heavy doses of opiates are administered for sometimes months on end 24/7. These people may not even like the drugs but their body needs it to stave of withdrawl.

Addiction is different and why Im making it clear so people don't conflate things. Addicts LIKE getting high and will do it even if it destroys their life and the lives of others around them.

There are many people that need to take a medication for a real health issue and are not ADDICTED to it although in some situations, the can be dependent on that medication. I see nothing wrong with a dependent person owning a weapon so long as the use of the drug does not make them unsafe while carrying or shooting. Many people take methadone and while it is an opiate, it doesn't get the user high and normal decision making is indistinguishable from a non-user so long as the dosage has been stabilized for a few days. A portion of those people are most definitely dependent but not addicted as methadone is used as a chronic pain medication that doesn't have the same effects as oxycotin.

With all that said, MJ is no different. Some may use it to sleep, but dont carry if they have used it. Whats the difference from someone that takes Ambien and carries the next day after the drug has worn off? Nothing IMO.

There is a lot more to drug usage than the strung out junkies you see walking the street in the middle of the night. For those that are responsible with their medication usage, they should have every right in the world to carry a weapon to protect themselves.
Read this^^^^^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by VendetAR View Post
If that was the case I would have stayed in the academic world instead of becoming an entrepreneur who is only in it for the money.

I did however learn a thing or to about the physiology of the brain along the way, how a few pharmacology classes and substance abuse courses made me a leftist zombie though. I'll never know :facepalm:
And you'll understand this^^^^. Any questions??
  #68  
Old 09-19-2013, 7:24 PM
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Read this^^^^^^^



And you'll understand this^^^^. Any questions??
Yeah, how am I a brainwashed liberal? Im a Constitutional Libertarian with an attitude that you, 556 and the.gov can stay out of everybody elses business with regards to CCW so long as you aren't a danger to society and with that said, not everyone that use drugs are a danger.

Also, I'd like to remind you that an addict is an addict regardless of the last time they used. You could be clean and sober for decades and still "addicted to drugs". I guess those people shouldn't be able to carry?

If you are a coffee drinker, you are more than likely addicted to a drug unless you are drinking decaf. I guess those people shouldn't carry because some of them can get pretty testy when they havent had their morning cup of joe.
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Old 09-19-2013, 7:27 PM
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LOL, pot smoking is the same as coffee drinking... I guess they will give a bachelors in psychology to anybody
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Old 09-19-2013, 7:32 PM
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LOL, pot smoking is the same as coffee drinking... I guess they will give a bachelors in psychology to anybody
And a minor in business administration to boot

And for the record, you said people addicted to DRUGS, not MJ or any other substance. Is it the same? Nope, one is a stimulant and the other manifests itself from a mild to moderate depressant, to stimulant to mild hallucinogen. Then again, caffeine in different dosages and with different people could cause the same reactions.
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Old 09-19-2013, 7:57 PM
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Leave him be. Drugs are illegally illegal; you are going to nail him for bad laws? No, of course not. He has a a human right to self-defense just like everybody else; maybe even a more pronounced need.
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Old 09-19-2013, 8:08 PM
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The problem is that drug addiction is a mental illness, as such he should be nowhere near a gun.
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Old 09-19-2013, 8:14 PM
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Leave him be. Drugs are illegally illegal; you are going to nail him for bad laws? No, of course not. He has a a human right to self-defense just like everybody else; maybe even a more pronounced need.
Since I know you are a political ally from your avatar, I hope you aren't implying that by simply disagreeing with someone and spelling out what addiction is (or isn't), that I too use drugs.

I also support the freedom of religion although I don't partake in that either. Just because I support the Christian theology more than Islam's doesn't make me a Christian.

Supporting something doesn't make you a direct participant in it otherwise Id be an elite level NHL hockey player, a Senator from Kentucky and a Marine. Im none of those while I avidly support all of them.
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Old 09-19-2013, 8:32 PM
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It's funny how out of the hundreds of pot smoker supporters on calguns, not one of them smokes the stuff... It's like a statistical miracle
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Old 09-19-2013, 9:05 PM
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Seems like there is a troll who has joined our ranks within the last 6 months
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
It's funny how out of the hundreds of pot smoker supporters on calguns, not one of them smokes the stuff... It's like a statistical miracle
I drink beer. Hate to break it to ya but it is possible that people may think that the War on Drugs is a farce and that adults may just be able to use a drug OR a medication and not be some blight of society.

I would think that a persecuted group such as gun owners would be able to identify that when the government says something is "bad", it may not be so.


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Seems like there is a troll who has joined our ranks within the last 6 months
Id suggest looking at my other posts before jumping to that conclusion. I disagreed and not only did I disagree, I laid out exactly why I did in an adult way that left emotion out of it. I laid out the facts and why someone that uses a substance, be it alcohol to marijuana, is not necessarily "addicted" to said substance as well as taking it a step further to differentiate the differences between people that are physically dependent and those that are addicts.

Drug use in any form is a controversial subject, but I would hope a mature group would be able to debate it without lowering themselves to Ad Hominem attacks. I received an education in Psych, Im some brainwashed commie or lying. I support the abolition of drug laws, Im a drug user myself. I don't agree with the group, Im a troll looking to stir up the ****.

Im not gonna push it any further if there can't be a mature conversation about the subject and to that end, it is pretty disappointing if a topic such as this can't be discussed in that manner. I thik there is a lot of information out there that people refuse to read let alone accept and thats fine, but be mature in your disagreement regarding it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:19 PM
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I drink beer. Hate to break it to ya but it is possible that people may think that the War on Drugs is a farce and that adults may just be able to use a drug OR a medication and not be some blight of society.
Right... and none of the pot supporters actually smoke the stuff
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:27 PM
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Right... and none of the pot supporters actually smoke the stuff
I dont support pot, I am against drug laws. They imprison thousands of non-violent people that have done nothing to anyone else.

It's exceedingly obvious that this "conversation" is going no where
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:28 PM
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In response to the question of "how long" till they catch him...

Never. I would be very surprised. Weird though... When you buy a gun, the paperwork asks if you use marijuana. Or is it only "are you addicted to marijuana?"

Maybe you can smoke/sell all the pot you want as long as your not an addict, you can keep buying guns and legally concealing them.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
It's funny how out of the hundreds of pot smoker supporters on calguns, not one of them smokes the stuff... It's like a statistical miracle
That reminds me of all the picture posted of magazine parts kits that are owned by so many calgunners, but NEVER get assembled. Another statistical miracle??
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