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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 08-19-2013, 7:03 PM
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Sac county i believe did change their permit to say must inform officer your carrying. I dont understand a officer that is angry that you did not tell them immediately. A sheriff, a life scan and a instructor approved by the county trusted you to be safe and professional with the permit. A ccw is nothing easy to get. It takes money, time and trust. There is a process you need to pass to receive it. I never heard of a permit holder pulling a gun on a officer in uniform. The sheriffs department trusts the citizen enough to give one to the individual. Also not once did i ever have a officer tell me about his back up gun he is concealing when he came up to me. They are the same people that are trusted by the same people that give citizens their permits. We are all the same. If your going to be frisked then by all means tell them but if its not a requirement of the permit then keep it to yourself. Its hidden for a reason. Keep it that way!
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Old 08-19-2013, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickrock1 View Post
Why would you even show or tell LEO?
Because, here in Sacramento, we're required to show it! Don't want to give them any reason to pull it....especially for something like that.
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  #43  
Old 08-25-2013, 11:24 AM
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These always help...



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Originally Posted By System Message:
Why can't you guys participate in a simple discussion about some guy's mom making a porno without violating the COC? This is why we can't have nice things.



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  #44  
Old 08-25-2013, 12:14 PM
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If the thread continues long enough, someone will eventually ask in all seriousness where to get one of those.
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  #45  
Old 08-25-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
These always help...



Where can I get one of those?!?!
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  #46  
Old 08-25-2013, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Colt-45 View Post
In some counties it's optional to disclose? I always thought CCW would come up when your name was pulled up on their computer screen, therefore you must always disclose because they would know anyway.......
I'm currently in process in Placer County. My instructor stated that as of March 1, 2013, Placer County permit holders are required to state their status whether armed or not. The reasoning is if stopped by city police or county sheriff, they likely will have accessed the county database which will show your permit status. If CHP, they most likely will not access county database.
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  #47  
Old 08-25-2013, 2:05 PM
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Decide for yourself whether to disclose your LTC/firearm. I have been a LEO for many years now and I would appreciate the disclosure, although it may not be required.

Now, I know that people on this site will encourage an adversarial attitude and tell you not to say anything. It is your call. I can carry a gun anywhere and do, but when I have been stopped I always announce that I armed because I don't want to get shot by a jumpy officer. I don't expect people that haven't walked up on hundreds of cars to understand, but it is the best way to go.

On the contrary to creating a mountain out of a molehill, I would see the presentation of a LTC as credentials belonging to someone who has training and knows & operates within the law. Gangbangers and parolees do not possess LTC's. These are the people I worry about. Not regular folks exercising their rights
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  #48  
Old 08-25-2013, 3:22 PM
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I've been carrying for years and have only been stopped once. When I'm driving my weapon is in no way visible to a LEO so I do not disclose. If I was asked to exit my car I would then disclose but there would be no legal reason for that anyway since the only reason for me to be pulled over would be for a minor traffic stop. As mentioned many times in the thread it's up to you.
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  #49  
Old 08-25-2013, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by microstencil View Post
I've been carrying for years and have only been stopped once. When I'm driving my weapon is in no way visible to a LEO so I do not disclose. If I was asked to exit my car I would then disclose but there would be no legal reason for that anyway since the only reason for me to be pulled over would be for a minor traffic stop. As mentioned many times in the thread it's up to you.
You should be aware that you CAN be ordered out of the vehicle within the context of a 'routine' traffic stop.

(Pennsylvania v. Mimms 1977)
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  #50  
Old 08-25-2013, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
According to my local SO, CA permits go into AFS once info is sent to CADOJ. That confirms the information in this post (which precedes the information from my SO). Assuming accuracy of the known parties involved (my Sheriff, Gene), verification requires only access to AFS.
Well, I have been an LTC holder for the past ten years or so. My recent AFS report has no indication anywhere that I am an LTC holder. I would have expected it to be disclosed if that were the case.

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  #51  
Old 08-26-2013, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
Well, I have been an LTC holder for the past ten years or so. My recent AFS report has no indication anywhere that I am an LTC holder. I would have expected it to be disclosed if that were the case.

Dan
Did you get the full report? or did you simply send the form (notarized?) for the report of firearms and/or assault weapons registered to you?

The only other thing I can think of is that you're issuing agency isn't submitting the records to the state...
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  #52  
Old 08-26-2013, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Did you get the full report? or did you simply send the form (notarized?) for the report of firearms and/or assault weapons registered to you?

The only other thing I can think of is that you're issuing agency isn't submitting the records to the state...
Yes, I did just send in the notarized request for firearms listing. I didn't know there were other AFS documents. Can I request them as well?

Dan
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  #53  
Old 08-26-2013, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
You should be aware that you CAN be ordered out of the vehicle within the context of a 'routine' traffic stop.

(Pennsylvania v. Mimms 1977)
Understood. Even if I had to exit the car the LEO still wouldn't see my weapon. If he/she decided that I needed to be searched then I would disclose at that time. I've been driving for 38+ years been stopped many times during that time and I have never been searched or have I ever given the police any reason to search me. Come to think of it I've never been asked to exit my car. I've just been lucky. I'm sticking to non-disclosure at this time. It really comes down to a case by case bases and personal preference. I did ask the my issuing agency about disclosure and I was told I did not have to.
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  #54  
Old 08-26-2013, 2:34 PM
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  #55  
Old 08-26-2013, 3:09 PM
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Still hard to figure why anyone would choose not to advise.
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  #56  
Old 08-26-2013, 4:18 PM
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Still hard to figure why anyone would choose not to advise.
Because its not required. Just like if your stopped and the LEO asks "do you mind if I look in your car?" Or "Where are you going?"
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  #57  
Old 08-26-2013, 5:09 PM
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Look at it this way, letting the officer know that you have a LTC could be seen as a good PR move. The more officers that are aware that they are contacting a person with a LTC, the more of them there are to combat the FUD when people start badmouthing people that have or want one. You now have officers that can say, "you know, I have contacted several people that have a LTC and they have never been a problem."
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  #58  
Old 08-26-2013, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
These always help...



Not really, they could just as easily be interpreted as you trying to play cop.
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Watch come Wednesday. It's going to be a landslide. Forget the polls, look at the census data, trump screwed up. Tell you what though if trump had made peace with woman and hispancis he could have pulled this off. But he kept at em. Just couldn't shut up.
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  #59  
Old 08-26-2013, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
Yes, I did just send in the notarized request for firearms listing. I didn't know there were other AFS documents. Can I request them as well?

Dan
They aren't really any documents, its just a database of information for pretty much everything firearms related.

I suppose you could issue a Public Records request for all AFS information pertaining to you're name - I'm not sure if that would work or not.
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  #60  
Old 08-27-2013, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by microstencil View Post
Because its not required. Just like if your stopped and the LEO asks "do you mind if I look in your car?" Or "Where are you going?"
It's not even close to "just like" asking for a search or your destination...

It's more of a courtesy to the cop who'd definitely prefer no surprises.


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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Not really, they could just as easily be interpreted as you trying to play cop.
Uh, the smillie () indicates sarcasm, which you can google .

-hanko
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Originally Posted By System Message:
Why can't you guys participate in a simple discussion about some guy's mom making a porno without violating the COC? This is why we can't have nice things.



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Last edited by -hanko; 08-27-2013 at 6:35 AM..
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  #61  
Old 08-27-2013, 7:12 AM
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Do you think that a CCW is so relatively rare in CA it acts like a brass pass?

Could an officer possibly get the impression, subconsciously or otherwise, that you are juiced in or connected, like you would have to be to carry in LA for example?

I just ask since everyone in this thread as far as I can tell got let off or just warned.
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  #62  
Old 08-27-2013, 7:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
Do you think that a CCW is so relatively rare in CA it acts like a brass pass?

Could an officer possibly get the impression, subconsciously or otherwise, that you are juiced in or connected, like you would have to be to carry in LA for example?

I just ask since everyone in this thread as far as I can tell got let off or just warned.
I got a ticket. .... no "pass" for me... I was talking on my cell phone. The officer, I think was a bit embarrassed about giving me the ticket after I talked to him for few minutes and told him a little of my history... talking and driving in professional capacity before he was born, no accidents, no moving violations.
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  #63  
Old 08-27-2013, 7:46 AM
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All debate aside, when you have an actual LEO saying

Quote:
I always announce that I armed because I don't want to get shot by a jumpy officer
Maybe it's a good idea to announce preemptively? At the end of the day, say you're reching to pull out your wallet for officer 1 at your driver's window. You happen to be carrying IWB on your right hip, and your wallet is in the right pocket. Officer 2, who you didn't even see is on overwatch on the passenger side, slightly to the rear, sees your weapon and proceeds to shoot you dead. I'm fairly certain that it would be ruled a good shoot, because at the time, officer 2 believed you were going for your gun. And you can't contradict that cause you're dead.

Of ocurse, being an LA County denizen, I'll probably never have to worry about things like this, since we are a "Won't issue" county.
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  #64  
Old 08-27-2013, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
It's more of a courtesy to the cop who'd definitely prefer no surprises.

-hanko
Not necessarily
I've asked a lot, about half say don't care or no concern to them, and half say let them kniw or you better tell them
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  #65  
Old 08-27-2013, 8:50 AM
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Originally Posted by microstencil View Post
Because its not required. Just like if your stopped and the LEO asks "do you mind if I look in your car?" Or "Where are you going?"
It's not required that you refrain from calling the LEO who stops you for 80 in a 55 a pejorative name either, but it's highly recommend that you do refrain from that. It's not required that you speak to the officer, but it's recommended. It's not required that you not pick your nose and wipe it on your steering wheel while the officer is talking to you, but I suggest that you not do so.

And actually, in my county and several others, it IS required that you advise the officer if you're carrying. All of this hand-wringing over disclosing one's carry status borders on paranoia. We've had ONE anecdote from ONE guy in recent months about a cop who yelled at him, ONE anecdote about a guy who had to sit on the curb while they checked his gun. The vast majority of contacts are reasonable. I advised an EGPD motor officer who got me on radar for 60 in a 45 and I wasn't even carrying, under the assumption that there was at least a possibility of my LTC status coming back if they ran my name. I'm aware that such a possibility has not been established definitively here, but I did it just in case, and also because it's common courtesy to advise. The resulting interaction was positive.
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Old 08-27-2013, 9:48 AM
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I don't see the courtesy in announcing something that is irrelevant
Should I also advise of the Cheetos and bible under the seat
My experience differs from yours, and I have asked quite a number, and again half don't care, surprisingly to me it was more chp that didn't care rather than locals
Still I will decide on an individual basis, not a blanket decision to announce every time or not to at any time
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  #67  
Old 08-27-2013, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy View Post
It's not required that you refrain from calling the LEO who stops you for 80 in a 55 a pejorative name either, but it's highly recommend that you do refrain from that. It's not required that you speak to the officer, but it's recommended. It's not required that you not pick your nose and wipe it on your steering wheel while the officer is talking to you, but I suggest that you not do so.

And actually, in my county and several others, it IS required that you advise the officer if you're carrying. All of this hand-wringing over disclosing one's carry status borders on paranoia. We've had ONE anecdote from ONE guy in recent months about a cop who yelled at him, ONE anecdote about a guy who had to sit on the curb while they checked his gun. The vast majority of contacts are reasonable. I advised an EGPD motor officer who got me on radar for 60 in a 45 and I wasn't even carrying, under the assumption that there was at least a possibility of my LTC status coming back if they ran my name. I'm aware that such a possibility has not been established definitively here, but I did it just in case, and also because it's common courtesy to advise. The resulting interaction was positive.
In San Diego we are not required to disclose. As for your CCW being tied to your DL I have checked and no it is not. Again no disrespect to LEO's but there is a small percentage out there that may not like our rights to carry and if you have the good luck to run into one of those and you disclose the out come could go bad. My issuing agency does not require me to disclose. My weapon is CONCELLED at all times and cannot be seen. The only way it will be found is if I am being searched and if I ever commit an offense that would require that to happen then I deserve what ever happens to me. I have had encounters and never had a problem since my weapon was properly concealed as it should be per the law. And as mentioned disclosure is a personal choice. If someone wants to disclose by all means you should. If it makes you more comfortable do it, it is your choice. I choose to not.
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  #68  
Old 08-27-2013, 10:59 AM
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Required or not I respect what they do so I would let them know. I would want to know if I were a cop. Just a respect thing to me. You did the right thing.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:01 PM
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We should rename this thread proper CCW etiquette. Its common courtesy and shows you have respect. Show some it goes a long way and there are a few examples of a good outcome even when there was a violation.
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  #70  
Old 09-03-2013, 12:44 PM
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i had to do a couple of site visits for the sac sheriffs office buildings (architectural work)....each time i had a sheriff escort me around the building....i showed them my id, business card, and ccw...they asked if i was carrying.....i said no...padded me on the back and said "thanks for letting me know".....im sure they did their background check before letting me walk around their building.....
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Old 09-04-2013, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
Do you think that a CCW is so relatively rare in CA it acts like a brass pass?

Could an officer possibly get the impression, subconsciously or otherwise, that you are juiced in or connected, like you would have to be to carry in LA for example?

I just ask since everyone in this thread as far as I can tell got let off or just warned.
I'm not required to disclose on my permit, so I do not unless the circumstance makes it neccessary or prudent. I have been contacted by anti-gun cops who didn't like my progun stickers on my truck.

I HAVE received a ticket, after disclosing my CCW status, but that didn't hurt me, in fact probably helped, since it improved the friendly raport I had with the CHP officer.
Long story short- He wrote me up for 75 in a 65, when it was actually ~85 when I noticed him pacing me. He liked my car and knew I had been hitting triple digits for short times, before he clocked me. He had been shadowing me at a distance for over 15 miles.
P.s. it was daylight on a mostly straight/divided highway with no traffic.
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Old 09-09-2013, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 9Deuce View Post
I was recently pulled over by a C.H.P officer. I turned of the motor, rolled down the windows, and put my hands on the wheel

"Officer XXXXXX My IA requires me to inform you that I have a CCW and I am currently in possession of a firearm"
Officer asks "where is it?"
"On my right hip ....I'll be happy to hand you my license and permit but it's in my wallet in my back pocket. How would you like me to proceed?"
Officer responds "Thank you for letting me know....go ahead"

5 min later ...no fuss ...no muss.... No ticket!
That's a perfect way to announce to a leo that your a good guy and carrying. Remember that most officers deal with people that lie to them or withhold information.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:47 PM
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First for me today. Pulled over for a broken taillight by elk grove pd motorcycle. No issues no ticket.
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Old 09-10-2013, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by microstencil View Post
In San Diego we are not required to disclose. As for your CCW being tied to your DL I have checked and no it is not. Again no disrespect to LEO's but there is a small percentage out there that may not like our rights to carry and if you have the good luck to run into one of those and you disclose the out come could go bad. My issuing agency does not require me to disclose. My weapon is CONCELLED at all times and cannot be seen. The only way it will be found is if I am being searched and if I ever commit an offense that would require that to happen then I deserve what ever happens to me. I have had encounters and never had a problem since my weapon was properly concealed as it should be per the law. And as mentioned disclosure is a personal choice. If someone wants to disclose by all means you should. If it makes you more comfortable do it, it is your choice. I choose to not.
Interesting view on things. But, just to tell you you CAN be searched even when you haven't "done something to deserve it." I am the most law abiding guy you'll ever meet and I've been searched twice after a car stop: one I was asked to step out of a taxi at a DUI checkpoint because someone had assaulted someone outside a bar and jumped into a cab to get away. The other was for a similar type thing, but the person drove off in a POV that was similar to mine.

I don't carry, but in both cases I stayed lighthearted and friendly, and in both cases after a few questions I was on my way.

I'm not sure how you're carrying concealed that you are 100% sure that in no way, from any angle or any light, that your weapon can not ever be seen (or imprint even). I honestly don't see the upside of being so obstinate about it since you've taken the steps to get the CCW (which involves lots of forms and personal information anyway).
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Old 09-10-2013, 4:31 PM
SOAR79 SOAR79 is offline
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great!
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Old 09-13-2013, 1:46 PM
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InGrAM InGrAM is offline
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I say always show an officer your LTC, at least in CA.

It does a few things:
1. Shows the officer that other LEO's trust you enough to grant you a license
2. You passed a criminal background check/live scan
3. You had enough respect for the Officer to inform them that you are carrying a loaded firearm.

Respect goes along way with people who are lied to on a daily bases.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:49 PM
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Tac380 Tac380 is offline
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If your permit is from Sacramento Sheriffs Dept you are now REQUIRED to notify any LEO you are contacted by that you are carrying a weapon.

If no weapon is present then you do not need to notify them but they said its a good idea to let the officer know. He will find out if and when he runs your DL and then may be upset or jumpy because he wasn't notified.
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Keep in mind If you get stopped by a game warden or other LEO and you say "well so and so on CalGuns said that this was ok and legal" That warden or LEO is gonna laugh at you and cite you.
Advice here is mostly good advice but its best to familiarize yourself with the laws & if needed contact DFW. or local Law Enforcement

Always confirm it for yourself. Ignorance is no excuse.

Contact the Governor now
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:31 PM
sdsguy87 sdsguy87 is offline
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I have watched tons of YouTube videos about guys carrying and are being dicks to the LEO who stops them and asks for ID. If I was LEO and pulled over a guy and saw him reaching towards his gun, even if he was reaching for his wallet and had a CCW, I'd draw.

For the person who said half of the LEO said they don't care if you have a CCW and don't tell them and you're using that as your basis of not disclosing, imagine being pulled over on a stretch of freeway where the LEO has no back up and he sees your gun. Do you still think they wouldn't care at that point?
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Old 09-25-2013, 2:04 AM
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Your licence,registration and insurance should be in your hands at 1200 on the wheel already by the time the cop gets to your door or window.

I got stopped at 2300 on a Saturday in a not so great part of Vista a couple of years ago after many years of carry. Although this was the first time I had had an encounter while armed during a traffic stop I had planned on giving the cop 2 forms of ID.

As it happened I was transporting my teen high school daughter and her best friend from their girlfriends home.

I had a govt model on my strong side well concealed. My dilemma was that my daughters best friend was from a left leaning family that would have been totally turned off by the whole gun thing. My sheltered little girl (who carries a benchmade) would have been mortified if we were proned out. Fortunately for me my daughter and her friends only care about getting "A"s and going to good colleges.

The cop said I was going a little fast. I apoligized and had the light on so he could see my eyes and was close so he could smell my breath. I told him I was just out picking up the girls and I noted from my insurance card that I have 2 newer cars and that my wife and older daughter drive the new cars. I smiled and asked him if he was looking for felons or speeders in particular.
He quickly and politely replied that he was looking for felons and I said be safe and good hunting. Fortunately no drama. But at any time if things were different I would have disclosed any info to this deputy that was prudent.

I'm 62 with gray hair and try to present like a minister. I have had retired LEO friends tell me not to mention that I'm carrying unless circumstances dictate or I am asked. I don't print and I don't brandish. Years ago when laws where not so Byzantine people knew how to carry concealed because they did it commando style sin papeles. I always cringe when people on this site talk about printing or "accidentally exposing" their arms. I personally have never carried guns illegally. I'm just saying that these are strange times.

Someone mentioned earlier that in certain counties that cops may actually treat you deferentially if you CCW. I think this is diffinitly true in the southland.
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Old 09-25-2013, 9:58 AM
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I haven't been stopped in many years but I always keep my hands on the wheel and tell my passengers to stop moving and keep their hands in plain sight. No need to make an officer nervous or jumpy. As I have a CCW from Sac Co. I am required to notify the officer of my weapon. I always advise the officer of the weapon and then ask for permission to retrieve my ID.

I have seen to many officers get nervous and jumpy (rightfully so) when there is to much movement in the car and someone is searching for their ID, registration and proof of Ins. Sometimes its better to wait and ask permission. Especially if the officer is looking for felons and you happen to be in a vehicle that matches the description. This has happened to me.
__________________
Keep in mind If you get stopped by a game warden or other LEO and you say "well so and so on CalGuns said that this was ok and legal" That warden or LEO is gonna laugh at you and cite you.
Advice here is mostly good advice but its best to familiarize yourself with the laws & if needed contact DFW. or local Law Enforcement

Always confirm it for yourself. Ignorance is no excuse.

Contact the Governor now
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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