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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 07-05-2013, 7:21 PM
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Default Coastal SD Fruit Trees.. selections?

Kind of a stupid question but I have room for three fruit trees out back - time to get smarter about my landuse. Avocado is risky, tried twice but the coastal salt is pretty tough to beat. One will be Lime (a must in cooking), and the next two would be?

Apple - fresh/dried... can't go wrong there.
?????

I know what I'd like to have, but placing sustainable quality fruit is a bit tricky beachside.

Thanks
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Old 07-05-2013, 7:48 PM
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Apricot, plum, orange, guavas?
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Old 07-05-2013, 8:36 PM
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I vote citrus for all of them (orange,lime,lemon). Our lemon tree is the only fruit tree that we use all the time and year round. If I had an orange tree I'd save plenty of money on orange juice. I have an apricot and plum tree that produce a lot of fruit every summer. I can only eat so much of these before I get the squirts. An added bonus is the clean up. Citrus are easy to pick up and are often still good, others leave stains, attract insects, and give the dogs the squirts.
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Old 07-05-2013, 8:57 PM
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I live a couple of miles East of the 805 and have three different types of lemon, four different types of guavas, apricots, kumquats and a perfectly worthless avocado and apple tree. Our neighbor has figs and a pomegranate. All are going well.
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Old 07-05-2013, 9:29 PM
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Meyer Lemon, Mission Fig, Apricot or Plum
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Old 07-05-2013, 9:42 PM
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I do blueberry bushes at my place. They grow great, have solid yields and can take the cold in the winter.
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Old 07-06-2013, 6:44 AM
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Jim, if I lived another half mile inland I could do avocados all day long - love those and I don't pay the prices most stores expect. Next door neighbor has Guava, the thing is about 180deg out of season... weird.

Thanks Gem, Meyer Lemon is an excellent choice!

Doc, good call on the Blueberries, that is a tasty call and one I would have not considered, thanks! I'll read up on them.

Tree placement is critical, I intend to have a few grape vines growing as well and the Sunset Western Garden Book is a great source.
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Old 07-06-2013, 6:59 AM
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We're lucky to have lots of space for fruit trees, and have about 45 total. We live about 15+ miles from the coast though.

I will tell you that the tree that we use the most is our lemon tree. Lime would be second. Both get a lot of use in cooking, and for the lime cocktails.

Avocado would be next, but I understand you may not be able to grow them close to the beach.

Among our other citrus our new favorite is Kara Kara Orange. Nice and sweet with great flavor and a very attractive deep orange color. We also like our tangerines.

Plums are also great, but I'm not sure they will tolerate salt air.

Make sure you plant fruit that you and your family will eat. Keep the trees on the small side so you don't get totally overwhelmed with fruit. As an example, we have a 1 year old Blenheim apricot that produced well this year, but still a small tree. We were eating them out of hand a few at a time for a few weeks, and made a killer apricot tart but then all of a sudden everything left on the tree was ripe. We now have several pints of apricot jam put away.
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Old 07-06-2013, 7:42 AM
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Excellent points Dave and I'm not a big fruit eater and thats why I'm expanding my capability... the next step will be canning. I'll be putting in "dwarf" trees, but even the neighbors trees are an easy 20-25' tall.

Thanks
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdkevin View Post
Excellent points Dave and I'm not a big fruit eater and thats why I'm expanding my capability... the next step will be canning. I'll be putting in "dwarf" trees, but even the neighbors trees are an easy 20-25' tall.

Thanks
Most of the trees we've planted ( as opposed to those that were here when we bought the place) are semi dwarf. We try to keep them to 15 feet or less for easier picking. I think Dave Wilson Nurseries may have some good advice about back yard fruit growing on their web site.

I've found canning goes hand in hand with lots of fruit trees and semi-serious gardening. In fact, we just made 6 pints of dill pickles this morning.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:12 PM
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Graft a lemon, lime & orange super tree.
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Old 07-06-2013, 3:47 PM
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Anna apple is the one you want if you actually want fruit. Taste good fresh and makes a decent pie.
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Old 07-06-2013, 4:08 PM
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We're on the beach in Carlsbad, and didn't have any luck with avos, either. Not a big fan of the lime choice if you're limited to three trees, but that's from a prepping standpoint, nothing else.

From a prepping standpoint, go for a blend of max nutritive value and high average output (which is why we both probably wanted avos in the first place). It's not a tree, but I like the blueberry suggestion -- great nutritionals, so the question then becomes will it like your microclimate and how much output is it producing.

In the end, it's hard to know what will grow in your microclimate, so I think the best suggestion is the poster who recommended a pro at a real (not Home Depot) coastal nursery / gardening center (there's a couple on La Costa near PCH, for example). They'll probably be able to save you a lot of time, and might have some suggestions you wouldn't have otherwise heard.

We're doing almond, apple, olive and black walnut trees. There's a bunch of other stuff in the garden, but those are the trees. We have a neighbor who welcomes everyone else in the neighborhood to pick his oranges, which is why we didn't go there.
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Old 07-06-2013, 4:13 PM
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Thanks Dave! I have a little landscape time under my old belt and I thought this would be a simple project -- boy was I wrong, I just got my azz handed to me. Great info.

And I was thinking Empty was gonna have me holed up in my secret mad scientist lair to create something Monsanto couldn't even pull off...
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Old 07-06-2013, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
microclimate
I thought that was just a buzz word.. but it actually fits. I spend time at the state beach there and what hits there is completely different than what hits my place.

I'm in a zone 24, so blueberry might be a stretch.

Almond tree, great suggestion. The read on page 214 sounds like they may work here.. again, I'll talk with the local nurseries.
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Old 07-06-2013, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdkevin View Post
Thanks Dave! I have a little landscape time under my old belt and I thought this would be a simple project -- boy was I wrong, I just got my azz handed to me. Great info.

And I was thinking Empty was gonna have me holed up in my secret mad scientist lair to create something Monsanto couldn't even pull off...
No problem. Dave Wilson himself does travel around to local nurseries and give talks from time to time. We were lucky enough to catch one of his talks a few years back at our local nursery up here in the LA area. He mostly talks about the same info you found on his website, but it's worth a couple hours if you ever get the chance.

As you found Empty made a very realistic suggestion. Depending on your local nursery you might be able to find one of those combo citrus trees. I've seen them around from time to time.

We've taken another Dave Wilson suggestion and planted a Santa Rosa plum and two different pluot varieties in one hole (the trunks are actually about 18" apart). Pluots are a plum/apricot cross, and most varieties need a plum to pollinate, so it helps ensure good pollination. Also, they ripen at different times so we get a sequence of fruit, and it helps keep the tree size down a little. You might think about that if you are tight on space - you can get three different fruits in more or less the space of one tree. They were only planted a year ago so the trees are only producing a few fruit this year. Hopefully next year we get more production.

If you get into it, you might also pick up a copy of a book called How to Prune Fruit Trees and Roses by R. Sanford Martin. I've found it to be very useful.

Good luck!
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Old 07-06-2013, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by speedrrracer View Post
We're on the beach in Carlsbad, and didn't have any luck with avos, either. Not a big fan of the lime choice if you're limited to three trees, but that's from a prepping standpoint, nothing else.

From a prepping standpoint, go for a blend of max nutritive value and high average output (which is why we both probably wanted avos in the first place). It's not a tree, but I like the blueberry suggestion -- great nutritionals, so the question then becomes will it like your microclimate and how much output is it producing.

In the end, it's hard to know what will grow in your microclimate, so I think the best suggestion is the poster who recommended a pro at a real (not Home Depot) coastal nursery / gardening center (there's a couple on La Costa near PCH, for example). They'll probably be able to save you a lot of time, and might have some suggestions you wouldn't have otherwise heard.

We're doing almond, apple, olive and black walnut trees. There's a bunch of other stuff in the garden, but those are the trees. We have a neighbor who welcomes everyone else in the neighborhood to pick his oranges, which is why we didn't go there.
We don't mind people picking our oranges either during normal times, but when the SHTF the LP/OP will be manned 24/7!

Your aversion to Limes will be proven to be shortsighted when we're enjoying our post-SHTF margaritas and mojitos on the patio!

All of the above: J/K

On a more serious note: We have a couple olive trees but haven't done anything with the fruit. Do you process your olives, and if so how much of a PITA have you found that to be?

We actually manage the olive trees to not produce fruit as I'm quite allergic to olive pollen, but if it wasn't too hard to get a decent crop of olives it might be worth it to put up with that.
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Old 07-06-2013, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Your aversion to Limes will be proven to be shortsighted when we're enjoying our post-SHTF margaritas and mojitos on the patio!
No kidding! Started Mint last year but it's been a bugger, it's in a container but finding proper placement in the yard is the trick.

If you like any dish outside of McDonalds, lime is a must have. Thai? Mexican? Ok, Scandinavia prolly doesn't require much...
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Old 07-06-2013, 7:16 PM
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Yup, mint can be difficult. It doesn't like full sun, but needs some sun to thrive. Pots are a good solution because you can move them around easily.

Speaking of Thai, we're making Thai green curry tonight. Eggplants and peppers from the garden.
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Old 07-06-2013, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
We don't mind people picking our oranges either during normal times, but when the SHTF the LP/OP will be manned 24/7!

Your aversion to Limes will be proven to be shortsighted when we're enjoying our post-SHTF margaritas and mojitos on the patio!

All of the above: J/K

On a more serious note: We have a couple olive trees but haven't done anything with the fruit. Do you process your olives, and if so how much of a PITA have you found that to be?

We actually manage the olive trees to not produce fruit as I'm quite allergic to olive pollen, but if it wasn't too hard to get a decent crop of olives it might be worth it to put up with that.
Lol -- yes, I will be lacking in post-SHTF limes, this is true. Prepping never ends...

As for olives -- if you're allergic, shouldn't you swap the trees for something else -- what would happen if there were a prolonged SHTF, you were unable to manage them, and they produced pollen?

Re: processing our olives, yes, it's a bit of a PITA, mostly due to the time it takes. Takes a couple of months for the brining process she uses, and really the only hassle is changing the brining solution every day for the first few weeks, and figuring out your "recipe" -- lotta variables require a lot of experimenting and failed batches . Our tree is of the Leccino variety, and it was recommended to us because it's not as demanding of a hot summer season. Supposedly they can even handle getting snowed on. The downside is lower yield. Maybe the lower yield is a blessing, as it's just the two of us, and the wife would have a lot of work on her hands keeping up with what some of our inland friends are getting.

She makes a brine from, among other things, ocean salt and distilled ocean water, and she uses an apple-cider vinegar she makes from our apples as part of the finish brine, so we're almost totally self-reliant when it comes to brining our olives. She just does it because she's a chef and wants ultimate control over the final flavor, but it's sound from a prepping perspective, too.

They're great to have, but still, nothing is worth risking a serious allergic reaction -- I still think you should get rid of yours....
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Old 07-06-2013, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Speaking of Thai, we're making Thai green curry tonight. Eggplants and peppers from the garden.
Now you're just pissn me off.

First season Thai and Arbol are doing better, Habanaros are not doing well and I had a plant that was in the ground that made beautiful fruit last year, standard junk beach soil - and the thing went crazy.

Habaneros have an amazing flavor that is so overlooked.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:22 AM
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thanks for the tree info hear. As far as mint is concerned once you think of mint as a weed it helped me grow it. I water it once a week if that in a pot placed behind a bush that blocks direct sun light. Its doing well. Also recommend taking away 4/5 of the plant out every year or so as it grows so fast the roots nees a massive trimming.
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Old 07-09-2013, 9:59 AM
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between other projects..

Apple - looks like Dorset Golden and Anna, both self fruiting starting at 100 chill hours.

Blueberry - Sunshine Blue or Sharp Blue, in a container on the SE corner next to the hot tub should work.

Grapes - Seedless Flame like spur pruning so that sounds like a good arbor plant for the southwest corner for full sun.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:41 AM
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We have Lemon, Lime, Tangerine, Grapefruit, Orange, and 2 Fig trees. The lemons get used the most, followed by the oranges. The local kids love the Tangerines. The Figs are awesome when I can keep the wild parrots out of them.

If I had to pick only one tree to keep it would be the lemon tree.
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Old 07-09-2013, 2:39 PM
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Quote:
If I had to pick only one tree to keep it would be the lemon tree.
Yep, considering a lemon and and orange in the Dave Wilson four in one footprint with my lime.
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Old 07-09-2013, 9:50 PM
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I have a couple of grape vines, one is producing really good this year. I also have a dwarf orange tree and a peach tree, both are in huge pots because I don't have a big property. We just got them so the kids can pick some fruit once in a while. Unfortunately the birds picked my peach tree clean.

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Old 07-09-2013, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
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Yup, mint can be difficult. It doesn't like full sun, but needs some sun to thrive. Pots are a good solution because you can move them around easily.

Speaking of Thai, we're making Thai green curry tonight. Eggplants and peppers from the garden.
I put my mint on the western side of my tomato plant and it does well; the tomato covers it from the noon sun and the mint gets the late afternoon sun.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:49 PM
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While not a tree, how about growing pitaya, ( dragon fruit ) it's pretty tolerant of salty soil, doesn't need a lot of water, low maintenance once established, and with the fruit selling for $8 - $10 each in stores you can sell your extras at the farmer's market for extra income.
Pineapple and strawberry guavas also thrive in coastal settings and are pretty much trouble free.
As for growing apple trees near the coast, not sure how well it would do without having at least a few hundred chill hours of 40 degrees or less. My brother in law tried for years to get some growing in Chula Vista a few blocks form the J st. marina, never got any of them to fruit.
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Old 07-10-2013, 1:53 PM
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I've put 50 varieties of fruiting plants on my residential home landscape mostly following the wisdom from Dave Wilson Nursery.

Cherries, Plums, Pluots, Aprium, Nectaplum, Apricots, Peaches, Nectarines, Grapes, Avocados, Pomegranite, Orange, Mandarine, Lemon, Kefir Lime, Meyer Lemon, Grapefruit, Apples... At least 3 different varieties of every stone fruit (singles of most of the hybrids).

This has been mixed with native plantings for local/native polinators following the wisdom from Las Palitas nursery. http://www.laspilitas.com/

I live in Thousand Oaks, planting started in January of 2012 and this summer has ROCKED for fruit. It only gets better from here!

Plant what you like to eat - I would caution against super-sweet varieties, after you eat 20 of them in a week, you are going to want a little more subtlety. Also look for things that keep reasonably well. Apples are good for that. Use nets for birds and squirrels. May not work for squirrels, depending how hungery they are
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Old 07-20-2013, 2:26 PM
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I picked up an "Anna" apple (with three fist sized apples) and "Seedless Flame" grape this afternoon, good looking plants so now it's up to me...
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Old 07-26-2013, 4:22 PM
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Pairing up a Dorest Golden to the Anna and a Eureka Lemon to the Bears Lime. A little late on the Blueberry but I'm going with a Misty and Sunshine Blue in a container.

I'll tell 'ya, that "two, three, four in one hole" is a sales genie. If I had a tractor mounted auger - then I'd agree, but it's still 2/3/4 holes! Good thing about this, soil pH's and backfill are matched per pair.

My coastal, packed clay is a b****.
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Old 07-26-2013, 5:45 PM
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Add perlite and worm castings to your soil, this will help with the drainage in the clay. do NOT add straw or sand, that would make bricks.

also I'd look into a premade watering drip kit for the irrigation. They sell these at home depot for cheap.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/2038289...N#.UfMW-mt5mSM

Also I'd go with olives super easy to grow. They are very drought resistant for extended periods. Mine produced "fruit" the first year. Great tree all around.
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Old 07-26-2013, 5:50 PM
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X3 for worm castings.
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Old 07-27-2013, 7:16 AM
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X3 for worm castings.
No kidding, of the 7 wheelbarrows, I found two worms - sad.

I'm going with about a 30% steer manure mixed with the natural dirt and added about 4Tbsp 4-6-4 to each hole, the holes are twice the size required.

Trees are still potted so I can amend anything at this point
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Old 07-28-2013, 1:03 AM
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Check out grafting for your apple tree. You could have 2-3 varieties of apples from one tree.
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Old 07-28-2013, 2:08 AM
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For fertlizer a good trick is use any of the left over fruit you have reuse it for the tree it came from. For a bird problem they start to avoid your tree when they know there is danger so pick off a few with a pellet gun once in a while and you have some bird for dinner as well (might not be legal in your area but I wont tell ). Always remeber to keep up with the soil ph level my grandpa has a nice 3 acre farm and always watches that. It can be controlled better by tilling if its not potted but your backyard will look fugly. My grandpa normaly uses some of the branches pruned from the tree to help with soil ph and to retain the soil from eriosion. i would look futher into maintiaing ph level as trees thrive when just right. Each differant type of tree needs differant level so keep the ph level specifit to each tree. You could buy ph testing strips for cheep just mix the diert with water and you add the strip.
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Last edited by bigguns85; 07-28-2013 at 2:12 AM..
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Check out grafting for your apple tree. You could have 2-3 varieties of apples from one tree.
Definately.. curious to see the effects of self-fruiting and crop production.

Cheap ph strips are on the list now, thanks! I was going to go with some electronic gizmo.
Bird defense is on the list, seems those bastards go after any blossom - Thai, Hab, name it.

I'll post a pic when I get stuff cleaned up.
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After watching WTC Bldg #7 being razed, and considering it's main occupants..

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Old 07-30-2013, 3:59 AM
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spend 30 mins a day with the pellet gun shooting those buggards after a while they will be human shy and that could help save your crops especially if you put in a moving scarecrow. If you dont want the birds give em to the cats they love em. Also wear the same thing as the scarecrow they will learn assosiaction with it and you killing them.
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Old 08-29-2013, 8:59 AM
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UPDATE

The Lime and Lemon seem to be putting their energy into rooting. The Apple has three little blossoms and is budding out very nicely thanks to my "backyard orchard" pruning. The grape is going to kick my butt, my trellis plans are nowhere near sufficient... back to the drawing board. Blueberries are taking their time. I've averted the brown tipped leaves on the avocado by adding a splash of vinegar to the watering and she seems pretty hardy so I feel confident to put her in the ground now.
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After watching WTC Bldg #7 being razed, and considering it's main occupants..

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Old 08-29-2013, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDJim View Post
...a perfectly worthless avocado ...
Your avocado issue?: http://askville.amazon.com/long-avoc...estId=15151822
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