50 bmg as a shtf tool

[Chaparral]

I second the OP as well as Racerx944. I got a .510 DTC back when I was hoping to move to Davis/Woodland/Esparto area and would be 40 minutes from the Sac Valley range. Mr Kubota set me up with an RCBS Ammomaster and the dies and some fireformed brass. Its nowhere near 8.00 a round unless you are buying new ammo for something like .460 Steyr or .416 Barratt maybe.

Even with .460 Steyr you can get the 525 gr Harlow solids for two bucks apiece. You could probably form the brass from .50BMG cheaper than 5.00 a case if you had the dies handy. Two piece dies run around 290.00 and Opticsplanet of all places had a set a few weeks ago.

Thing is, you gotta get out and use the damn things and not let them starve to death inside the safe. That's harder to do in SoCal when the only range within an hour's drive of coastal LA county is Angeles which maxes out at 600 yds.

For the optic on the .510 I got a used Vortex Viper 4-16 for a couple hundred bucks. The reticle hasn't detached yet after a couple hundred rounds and two owners.

[mrkubota]

Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal

Provide a link for .50 BMG ammo (or reloading supplies) for $1.50 a round....

reloading is the way to go...
If you shop in bulk and already have brass it could be about .95/round. (brass shipped right now is running about .60 per)

a few places to check out.

georgia-arms.com
gibrass.com
patsreloading.com
grafs.com
powdervalleyinc.com
hi-techammo.com
wideners.com
polygunbag.com

Tula BMG primers are the least expensive. CCI #35 are about 40% higher. RWS primers... twice as much.
You can also substitute 20mm powders like wc867, wc870, wc872, that can be cheaper than typical wc860, or wc859, or imr5010 BMG powder.
Match loads with heavy 800gr bullets need a slower powder like VV20N29 or RL-50. Match ammo is fairly expensive to load or buy. Good brass, good bullets, primers and powder will never be as cheap as the surplus components.

[mrkubota]

Originally Posted by Whiterabbit

interesting. and just hand snug it on there? I thought brakes had to be torqued on, even for 10-20 rounds. I was wrong?

Yes, they do torque them to some spec (I don't recall) The shims they use aren't normally reused after the brake comes off for cleaning.

Most of the Hunter (tactical) class rifles have their brakes semi-permanently attached with thread lock or a clamp (or combo there of)

[mrkubota]

Originally Posted by Chaparral

I second the OP as well as Racerx944. I got a .510 DTC back when I was hoping to move to Davis/Woodland/Esparto area and would be 40 minutes from the Sac Valley range. Mr Kubota set me up with an RCBS Ammomaster and the dies and some fireformed brass. Its nowhere near 8.00 a round unless you are buying new ammo for something like .460 Steyr or .416 Barratt maybe.

Even with .460 Steyr you can get the 525 gr Harlow solids for two bucks apiece. You could probably form the brass from .50BMG cheaper than 5.00 a case if you had the dies handy. Two piece dies run around 290.00 and Opticsplanet of all places had a set a few weeks ago.

Thing is, you gotta get out and use the damn things and not let them starve to death inside the safe. That's harder to do in SoCal when the only range within an hour's drive of coastal LA county is Angeles which maxes out at 600 yds.

For the optic on the .510 I got a used Vortex Viper 4-16 for a couple hundred bucks. The reticle hasn't detached yet after a couple hundred rounds and two owners.

Yep... I can make .460 or .416 brass from BMG, but it's nowhere as easy as the DTC stuff. There aren't any 'plinker' type surplus bullets for them either so it's like making match ammo whenever you want to shoot them
Lehigh Bullets are nice and they are less expensive than AAA or Barrett's offerings.

[Bakersfield_Grizzly]

How sad, some of the pictures show the area I work and I never even heard of this shoot. PM me if you wouldn't mind? I'd love to be invited to the next shoot. Thx

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by gorn5150

My son is an Army sniper. The only bad thing he had to say about the .50 was that humping it all over Iraq and Afghanistan gets old fast.

First, thank your son for his service! Second, when he comes home, have him contact me if he wants a little friendly 1000 yard competition with 50s. I am serious. If I wasn't, I would not be publicly inviting him to use one of my 50BMGs in any FCSA 1000 yard match that I attend. I'm far from rich so, if he wants to take me up on the offer, he'll be on the hook for ammo and other associated costs.

Originally Posted by RuggedJay

its like $8 every time u pull the trigger, right?

Only if you're rich and an idiot. At the prices I was able to scrounge components for this last month, my match ammo cost about $3.25 per round plus brass. I've been shooting the same match brass since 2004. I paid about 50 cents a piece for unfired reclaimed brass and have about 12 loads through it now.

Originally Posted by SKSDan

Been to that range nice! .50 makes quite an impression at long range

Yea, unfortunately the range only goes to 1000 yards. We really need to get a group together and find a place to shoot a mile.

Originally Posted by em9sredbeam

That is awesome. Where was this? Was everyone shooting 50 bmg or 510 dtc?

Coalinga, Ca. There were a few DTCs there and a lot of BMGs. We had only had competitors from 4 states this year.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by KevinB

You can still buy a 416 Barrett in the state. A 338 Lapua or a 338 Remington Ultra Mag are really good choices for long range work.

Look to spend about 10 to 12 thousand dollars on a good set up, optics and ammo. Double that if you want one with good night vision.

Or, you can do your homework and realize that .416 Barrett is a boutique round that can be fun to shoot but is no where near a 50 in power, doesn't have the ability to use surplus components and will never be developed to it's fullest potential since, it is too big for BR competitions and too small for FCSA matches.

Originally Posted by Whiterabbit

want. What is that, a ferret? Only 50 I could want more is the Anzio LW50.

This thread makes me want to sell all my guns to buy a 50.

It's an ALS. I'd take an ALS, Ferret or several other 50s before I'd get an Anzio but, there's nothing wrong with them.

Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal

Provide a link for .50 BMG ammo (or reloading supplies) for $1.50 a round....

Surplus powder can be had for $40/8lbs, primers can be found for under 30 cents each and surplus bullets can still be had for 40ish cents a piece. I can get over 20 rounds from high quality Isreali brass I paid 60 cents each for. That comes out to well under a buck a shot at today's prices. But, I know how to shop and I actually have a bit of experience loading and shooting 50BMGs.

Originally Posted by sdkevin

Stood watch with a 50 BMG, got home and found them at $3,500 for a mag fed..

I'm still kicking my a** today.

I'd pay more for a stiffer action than for a gun with a huge hole in the action to accept a magazine. But, I'd rather hit my target the first time than worry about a follow up shot. Also, with my single shot rifles, I am fast enough that I'm already reloaded and back in battery by the time my target is spotted and back up. With my ALS upper, I was able to shoot a 5 shot, 4.875" group in well under a minute this weekend. The first three were in less than an inch and a half with the fifth one being about doubling the size of the group of the first four rounds. I think I was one shot away from a world record! I've NEVER seen or heard of a mag fed 50 being able to do that. Although, a McMillian Tac50 is the one gun that should be able to.

Originally Posted by Whiterabbit

you guys all suck, for re-awakening my desire for a 50dtc. Anyone want to trade my accessorized 338lm for their non-bohica DTC? =B

Also, whats going on with this guy?

I've never seen a big 50 without a muzle device, and I don't see a brake on the table. What's going on here? (It's also a lovely rifle)

He was shooting next to me. He only puts his brake on with a small plastic hammer and a spanner wrench. It came loose at least twice during his record targets.

Originally Posted by racerx944

If he shoots that rifle without a brake, I believe what that guy lacks in a muzzle brake can probably be found between his legs...

I've seen it happen by mistake on more than one occasion.

Originally Posted by Bakersfield_Grizzly

How sad, some of the pictures show the area I work and I never even heard of this shoot. PM me if you wouldn't mind? I'd love to be invited to the next shoot. Thx

Keep checking the FCSA and the CRC websites for next year's schedule.

[CSACANNONEER]

Oh yea PC,

It was my pleasure to have you shoot a few rounds, meet you and your wife and put a face to your name. If you want to shoot a few more, we can meet at Angeles in a few weeks. I'm sorry I couldn't give you more of my time but, I had too many things I had to do during the match.




I would like to note that DisarmedMarksman shot a 6 7/8" group at his very first EVER record target at 1000! He had only shot my rifle once before which was over two years ago and then, it was only at 600 yard steel. Also, he ended up taking home a 3rd place plaque with Sheri and Lee taking first and second in Unlimited class Score! Lee was shooting his rail gun and Sheri was shooting a custom rifle on a BAT action.

As far as a 50 for SHTF, it really depends on one's individual situation. Where I am, it would take two 50's to defend my neighborhood and keep unfriendlies a mile away. Once they got within 800 yards or so, my 1919 would come into play untill they reached 400-500 yards when the K31s and Mausers will easily nuetralize a man sized target. Inside 200 yards, my little ARs and AKs will come into play. But, 3 or 4 head shots in a row with a 50 at around the 1000 yard mark should make the rest think twice about coming closer for a while. So, 50s can be a useful SHTF tool in the right setting. In the middle of an urban enviornment, a 50's usefulness would be a lot more specific but not completely useless.

[RiverRunner]

Originally Posted by Chaparral

Thing is, you gotta get out and use the damn things and not let them starve to death inside the safe. That's harder to do in SoCal when the only range within an hour's drive of coastal LA county is Angeles which maxes out at 600 yds.

Try Wes Thompson's in Piru. It is about the same distance away as Angeles and they have a 1,000 yard plate.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Chaparral

Thing is, you gotta get out and use the damn things and not let them starve to death inside the safe. That's harder to do in SoCal when the only range within an hour's drive of coastal LA county is Angeles which maxes out at 600 yds.

LMFAO! Most 50 shooters I've met from around the world would love to live in Socal just to be in close proximity to so many places to shoot past 100 yards. We have at least a dozen places to shoot 50s in SoCal. The fact that there are several 1000 yard, 50 friendly ranges within 2 hours of downtown LA is incredible. The fact that there are multiple 1000 yard ranges that hold FCSA 1000 yard matches within a days drive makes Socal one of the 50 friendliest places in the country. For someone to gripe about not being able to shoot over 600 yards without driving more than an hour only goes to show that that person doesn't want to put in any effort and doesn't have what it takes to become a serious 50 shooter.

[Stormfeather]

Originally Posted by Whiterabbit

I've never seen a big 50 without a muzle device, and I don't see a brake on the table. What's going on here? (It's also a lovely rifle)

The M2 BMG doesnt normally have a muzzle device, and a few 50's Ive seen dont have them, never seemed like a big deal to me.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Stormfeather

The M2 BMG doesnt normally have a muzzle device, and a few 50's Ive seen dont have them, never seemed like a big deal to me.

Ma Dueces aren't shoulder fired! Little 50's like 50 Beuwolf don't need a MB. However, if you want to shoot more than a few rounds of 50BMG or the like, a MB is a big deal. The recoil of an un-braked 50 can cause permanent eye damage as well as shoulder, back and neck damage!

[Whiterabbit]

ok, that should be good enough to convince me to stick with 500 a-square. (aka 416 barrett that can use cheap surplus powder and projectiles and cheaper primers.)

Also, remind me to CALL YOU before visiting, and never ever visit unannounced! sheesh.

(the ALS is still lovely)

[mrkubota]

Originally Posted by Whiterabbit

ok, that should be good enough to convince me to stick with 500 a-square. (aka 416 barrett that can use cheap surplus powder and projectiles and cheaper primers.)

Also, remind me to CALL YOU before visiting, and never ever visit unannounced! sheesh.

(the ALS is still lovely)

??? the 500 a-square is based on the .460 weatherby necked up to .510, not the .416barrett case.
The .416barrett case would actually make a nice efficient .50 with modern powders, if they'd do it.
I've made up a sample myself... called it a .508, the idea being that it's in the same tradition of the .30-06 to .308 downsize with similar ballistics.



You could just get a rifle chambered for the M48 .50spotter for ballistics similar to the .500a-square and still have access to cheap brass and interesting surplus projectiles. (DTC is still way easier to form)



.50spotter UltraLite50

[bombadillo]

Wow, I really like the .338lm, but it looks like a peashooter compared to the full sized .50bmg.

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Mr Kubota,

I was just addressing CSA's commentary about 416 barrett being a boutique round, which I agreed with. It has every disadvantage of the BMG platform. It requires special actions, expensive primers. It can not take advantage of cheap surplus projectiles.

That was the point of reference i was using when mentioning the 500 a-square/510wells express/50 peacekeeper. It has every advantage the BMG round has with respect to using surplus powder and bullets, and skips all the disadvantages being able to use a cheaper magnum action, standard bolt faces, and common primers. Uses half the powder to get more than half the MV. Should be easier to get working with cast bullets than the BMG/DTC which will REALLY get the cost down.

The only disadvantage I can see is brass is harder to find/more expensive than BMG.

That's all I was trying to say.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Whiterabbit

Hi Mr Kubota,

I was just addressing CSA's commentary about 416 barrett being a boutique round, which I agreed with. It has every disadvantage of the BMG platform. It requires special actions, expensive primers. It can not take advantage of cheap surplus projectiles.

That was the point of reference i was using when mentioning the 500 a-square/510wells express/50 peacekeeper. It has every advantage the BMG round has with respect to using surplus powder and bullets, and skips all the disadvantages being able to use a cheaper magnum action, standard bolt faces, and common primers. Uses half the powder to get more than half the MV. Should be easier to get working with cast bullets than the BMG/DTC which will REALLY get the cost down.

The only disadvantage I can see is brass is harder to find/more expensive than BMG.

That's all I was trying to say.

For shooting cast bullets, I would explore the 50whisper.

[Whiterabbit]

or 495 a-square

[HPBrowningMK3]

I have been kicking myself for not getting one before the ban. I like my 338LM a lot and can do a 1000 yard with it no problem , but my buddy's barret 50 is a true beast.

[Chaparral]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

LMFAO! Most 50 shooters I've met from around the world would love to live in Socal just to be in close proximity to so many places to shoot past 100 yards. We have at least a dozen places to shoot 50s in SoCal. The fact that there are several 1000 yard, 50 friendly ranges within 2 hours of downtown LA is incredible. The fact that there are multiple 1000 yard ranges that hold FCSA 1000 yard matches within a days drive makes Socal one of the 50 friendliest places in the country. For someone to gripe about not being able to shoot over 600 yards without driving more than an hour only goes to show that that person doesn't want to put in any effort and doesn't have what it takes to become a serious 50 shooter.

Pfft! You sir, are not married to my needy wife. Seriously tho, I have put her on notice that once our current remodel is complete, I am 1) going diving twice a month and 2) getting into USPSA and getting the rifles exercised on a regular basis. Of course this assumes we don't get suprised with a rugrat or two.

Back on topic, anyone here got a .460 Steyr and wanna go in on some brass from Mr Kubota?

[iBkickinit]

I decided to go with two .50's.. The AR-50 fits my needs for accuracy, but I chopped a Bohica down to 18" and slapped an Armalite muzzlebrake on it... Its my perfect "lite" .50 @ 18 lbs and almost zero felt recoil (feels like a punch in the face to shoot). The brake is just about 90% efficient. A small case with some AP rounds and I have a portable vehicle stopper. Still a very heavy gun to shoot standing but offhand shots at steel at 400 yards is doable.


I really need to get out to Piru and let the AR-50 stretch its legs. Setting off car alarms at Angeles is fun too though..
Sent from my SPH-L900