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  #41  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:13 AM
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It's ironic these people say that a 5.56 won't kill anything bigger than a 'yote but hundreds of thousands of people have been killed by them in Viet Nahm, Iraq, Afghan, Panama, Grenada, Croatia, etc etc.

American feral hogs die pretty easily with just a reasonably decent shot.
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  #42  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:29 AM
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@gunntz and anyone else: I'm an AR noob. Can you explain what you mean by gassed and headspaced? I assume "gassed" means cycling the action. Can you be more specific? Thanks
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  #43  
Old 07-08-2013, 6:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorax View Post
It's ironic these people say that a 5.56 won't kill anything bigger than a 'yote but hundreds of thousands of people have been killed by them in Viet Nahm, Iraq, Afghan, Panama, Grenada, Croatia, etc etc.

American feral hogs die pretty easily with just a reasonably decent shot.
I agree, it is amazing how much damage the 223 does to the pigs considering its size. That said, you can't go wrong with heavier calibers.
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  #44  
Old 07-08-2013, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MapleSyrupSmuggler View Post
Got two hogs so far with 223 (Barnes tsx 55gr) though not on an AR platform but a mini-14. First one (pic) was on a friend's ranch that was literally overrun with hogs, he weighed in at 160 lbs and the second one was on public land weighing ~ 150-175 lbs. 223 so far has worked for me but haters gonna hate.
Is that a high shoulder shot and a head/neck (behind the ear) shot?

How did the high shoulder shot work out? Did you recover the bullet or did it pass through? Did it break the spine? Both shoulders? I'm genuinely curious about the efficacy of the 55 grain Barnes TSX. It's a sturdy bullet.
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  #45  
Old 07-08-2013, 8:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BadMatt View Post
I'm trying to build a pig AR 15, and my conclusion is that I'm better off getting a bolt action rifle... 6.5 and 6.8 require new uppers, bcg and mags, about 75% of an AR 15. For the cost of all this, you can get a decent bolt action rifle.
A barrel, bolt, and mag for a 6.8SPC is not 75% of an AR-15. And anyways, you will end up buy a whole new AR-15 to add to the pile so you may as well go for it. If you get a bolt gun, you would probably get a different cartridge.
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  #46  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Is that a high shoulder shot and a head/neck (behind the ear) shot?

How did the high shoulder shot work out? Did you recover the bullet or did it pass through? Did it break the spine? Both shoulders? I'm genuinely curious about the efficacy of the 55 grain Barnes TSX. It's a sturdy bullet.
No, it was a shoulder shot only, it looks like a neck shot but that is just the blood dripping down and pooling behind the ear while he lay on his side. The shot was right where the blood channel begins and yes it punched through and, don't ask me how, but it entered at an upward angle and pulverized the spine. He dropped right after I shot him and went into his "death throes." I did not recover the bullet but I did from the sow that I shot on private land and like most "all copper" rounds, it mushroomed perfectly. The TSX definitely does the job and btw both kills were under 70 yds.
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  #47  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:49 PM
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What about a AR upper chambered in 7.62??

What about 12 gauge slugs? whats the range on hunting with slugs? My Semi shotgun can hold 9 rounds, I m guessing that would slow a few hogs down. I ve never been hog hunting but it seems like it would be sooo dam fun.
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  #48  
Old 07-08-2013, 4:53 PM
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I shot a pig with a .450 Bushmaster and it didn't take a step. Getting ammo can be a bit tough, but if you reload, non-lead/copper isn't hard to do.
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  #49  
Old 07-08-2013, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRai2001 View Post
What about a AR upper chambered in 7.62??

What about 12 gauge slugs? whats the range on hunting with slugs? My Semi shotgun can hold 9 rounds, I m guessing that would slow a few hogs down. I ve never been hog hunting but it seems like it would be sooo dam fun.
Main problem with the AR10/LR308 platforms are they are not exactly light. You would be hard pressed to get one under 9 lbs and typically with optics and a full mag, you probably are looking into the low teens.

12 gauge slugs work rather well, but I wouldn't shoot anything past 100 yards with one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorax View Post
It's ironic these people say that a 5.56 won't kill anything bigger than a 'yote but hundreds of thousands of people have been killed by them in Viet Nahm, Iraq, Afghan, Panama, Grenada, Croatia, etc etc.

American feral hogs die pretty easily with just a reasonably decent shot.
Purpose of the caliber was designed to maim and to take a soldier out of action - not to kill them. The hydrostatic shock, bullet weight and size gained from high calibers will give much better results when killing and accuracy is the goal.
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  #50  
Old 07-08-2013, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post



Purpose of the caliber was designed to maim and to take a soldier out of action - not to kill them. The hydrostatic shock, bullet weight and size gained from high calibers will give much better results when killing and accuracy is the goal.
Umm, no.

The boys at Aberdeen Proving Grounds (look it up) wanted smaller and lighter ammo so a soldier could carry more along with lighter recoil than the common M14 of the day so inexperienced soldiers could shoot it more accurately (less flinching).
It didn't hurt that the M16 was in the low 7lbs and the M14 is...well...heavy.
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  #51  
Old 07-08-2013, 7:13 PM
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7.62 .308 or 6.5
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  #52  
Old 07-08-2013, 7:34 PM
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A bolt gun would be the cheapest route. And then you pick any decent deer cartridge and call it a day. Of course, that isn't nearly as much fun sometimes. .223 didn't used to be good for anything but varmints. Yes, it worked on people, but being "humane" isn't all that high on the list when it comes to fighting people. For game, you typically had FMJs or soft-nosed bullets that were so thin-skinned that they would shatter when they hit anything fleshy, and leave nasty, shallow wounds on anything bigger than a coyote half the time. With the newer generation of bullets, that isn't the case. In the last decade or so, they have been making .223 bullets that are designed to take medium game humanely. The barnes TSX and similar bullets let the .223 punch above its weightclass. And while still not as good as a full-powered cartridhge, they seem to be racking up a steady stream of pigs and deer.

Of course, with all that, I am still partial to the 6.8. It works for me, and I can load it up to be a near ballistic twin to the .257 Roberts. See my picture in the 6.5/6.8 thread that is going right now for the 200 ound hog I took with it last year.

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  #53  
Old 07-08-2013, 7:33 PM
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50 Beowulf for sure.

oh yeah!
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  #54  
Old 07-08-2013, 9:14 PM
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If your asking about the capability of 5.56 on hogs then please use a larger caliber. And this is coming from a guy who uses 5.56/.223 exclusively for CA big game hunting. Shot placement is key and distance is its limited capability. Ive shot deer at 250 yards but I wouldnt shoot at game any further then 300.

Someone asked about penetration, using Wolf 55g HP will penetrate both shoulders of a deer and complete pass through with no problem but I wouldn't recommend that cartridge for hunting as its expansion is very limited.
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  #55  
Old 07-09-2013, 8:09 AM
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Though I do not hunt hogs, I know a lot of people that do. They all use the .223 AR. It does the job just fine.
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  #56  
Old 07-09-2013, 8:10 AM
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Though I do not hunt hogs, I know a lot of people that do. They all use the .223 AR. It does the job just fine.
Is it legal to use that round on that sized game in CA. I don't think for deer, but hogs are not subject to the same game regulations and considered invasive species so maybe. I'd still use a bigger round like 6.8 SPC and maybe load an even heavier bullet than the light standard one for 6.8 SPC keep distances shorter—but while I haven't done it, those who do seem to think similarly. I believe as a hunter I should try to kill humanely not just shoot because I can hit a target at a longer range. I will try 6.8 SPC for hog one day.
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  #57  
Old 07-09-2013, 9:48 AM
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Do you hunt in California? CA says it's legal to use any center fire rifle on regulated game species. Pigs, by the virtue of requiring a tag are a regulated game species, unless on a depredation permit. Likewise you have to use expanding bullets, no fmj, i.e. no milsurp ammo.
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  #58  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
Is it legal to use that round on that sized game in CA. I don't think for deer, but hogs are not subject to the same game regulations and considered invasive species so maybe. I'd still use a bigger round like 6.8 SPC and maybe load an even heavier bullet than the light standard one for 6.8 SPC keep distances shorter—but while I haven't done it, those who do seem to think similarly. I believe as a hunter I should try to kill humanely not just shoot because I can hit a target at a longer range. I will try 6.8 SPC for hog one day.
I really don't know anything about it. I get my bacon from the grocery store. I've never really had any interest in hunting, so legalities are unknown to me.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:08 AM
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I really don't know anything about it. I get my bacon from the grocery store. I've never really had any interest in hunting, so legalities are unknown to me.
Bacon yeah—with all that curing I don't have patience with either. Pancetta and proscuitto too. But wild pig chops, shoulder, sausage, spare ribs, and more? You are missing a lot if you haven't tried it.
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  #60  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:43 AM
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Whenever someone does a thread like this, you get a ton of different opinion and a lot of the things I've read here are not crazy.

People just weigh things differently and that's OK with me.

CA used to require a great than .23 cal for hunting - now its simply "centerfire" with bullet rqts. For a lot of our coastal "rat" deer, a well-placed .223 will do just fine. Accent on well placed though.

For me, I decided to build a 6.8 SPCII as my deer/pig hunting platform. Although I have seen guys get to take 20 minutes setting up on a sleeping pig at 100 yards (and still pull the shot ) I have never had an opportunity on a pig that wasn't moving. I decided that I wanted something with more oomph than a .223.
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  #61  
Old 07-09-2013, 8:07 PM
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I'm with "Drive" - lots of different options, trade-offs and thus different choices. I have a Rock River Arms 458 SOCOM upper on a Noveske N4 lower. I'd take that hog hunting in a heartbeat.

Would not take it deer hunting, just cuz I'd rather use something in the ~.30 range, and the bullet weight of the 458 makes the bullet drop pretty steep beyond 200-250 yards.

But it's all trade-offs.... I personally like the stopping power of the 458, and the standard PMAGs fit the rounds and cycle well in the platform. But like the guys using the 6.8's, you have to be prepared to deal with "non-standard" ammo (harder to find, more expensive).
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Old 07-09-2013, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorax View Post
It's ironic these people say that a 5.56 won't kill anything bigger than a 'yote but hundreds of thousands of people have been killed by them in Viet Nahm, Iraq, Afghan, Panama, Grenada, Croatia, etc etc.

American feral hogs die pretty easily with just a reasonably decent shot.
It's because most of these armchair hunters never hunted anything besides a couple of targets of feral hogs hanging at Angeles or Burro.

OP, the few that have done it already gave you the answer. On the other hand, you got the "I think", " I would've", " I might" that put you all over the place.

5.56 or just go and buy a 50 cal just to hunt squirrels. Your choice.
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  #63  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:25 PM
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12 gauge slugs ?
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  #64  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:53 PM
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12 gauge slugs ?
I would imagine 12g slugs would do too much damage to the meat.
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  #65  
Old 07-10-2013, 1:07 PM
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If the 5.56 round is not effective for small game why does the military use it? I am not trying to troll just confused. I would imagine a 5.56 round is more of a "shoot and mame" configuration? It is harder "psychologically" to pick up a rifle and fight U.S. soldiers if you buddy has a massive bleeding hole in his leg,arm,neck etc. and is bleeding out. I don't know, I always rationalized the 5.56 in this manner. I guess for hog hunting you want more knock down power so the animal can't escape and bury down in brush possibly losing the kill?

Educate me as well.
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  #66  
Old 07-10-2013, 1:35 PM
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Last time I was staying down in TX, we were having a massive hog problem tearing everything up. So I wasn't hunting them so much, but did dispatch a few using these:

http://www.ssarmory.com/223REM_62gr_...mmunition.aspx


They worked really well with good expansion
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  #67  
Old 07-10-2013, 1:40 PM
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Buy a Remington 700 in a .270 and be done with it.
There is a difference between hunting and killing. A hunter uses an appropriate round to take specified game. While many calibers will work, the question is what is most suited.
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Old 07-10-2013, 5:44 PM
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Just wondering if all the people who are saying 5.56 is inhumane also say the same thing about bow hunting? That also takes skill, discipline, and shot placement ....
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Old 07-10-2013, 5:47 PM
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Just wondering if all the people who are saying 5.56 is inhumane also say the same thing about bow hunting? That also takes skill, discipline, and shot placement ....
I think rather they are saying that if you are going to choose a firearm, then try to be humane about it because you have a choice and an option to be more humane with little extra effort or hindrance to getting the animal—so why not be as humane as you can? Doesn't hurt. Bow hunters jsut don't have too many options to choose from regarding more or less humane kills. Does that make sense to you or am I not expressing it the way I think I am?
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Old 07-10-2013, 6:01 PM
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Yeah, I totally get what you are saying, and that is what I figured, but just wanted to double check. Just seems that some go a little overboard with it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 6:04 PM
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I mean if a 5.56 is all you have and you want to get a taste for hunting, by all means. But if you have larger calibers in your safe, why not use the better hunting round?
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Old 07-10-2013, 6:10 PM
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I mean if a 5.56 is all you have and you want to get a taste for hunting, by all means. But if you have larger calibers in your safe, why not use the better hunting round?
Exactamente. Be humane because you can and as a human, you want to be. And because as a Calgunner you know we are ambassadors of our sport and RKBA and our character (doing the right thing when no one is looking) is important.
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Not wasting any more time and energy tilting, Don Quixote-like, on a regulatory problem that, constitutionally, should not even exist in a free state.
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Old 07-10-2013, 6:27 PM
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Exactamente. Be humane because you can and as a human, you want to be. And because as a Calgunner you know we are ambassadors of our sport and RKBA and our character (doing the right thing when no one is looking) is important.
Well put !
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Old 07-10-2013, 6:33 PM
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Awesome! Pretty much what I figured the majority were trying to say. Well put!
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Old 07-10-2013, 6:53 PM
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Exactamente. Be humane because you can and as a human, you want to be. And because as a Calgunner you know we are ambassadors of our sport and RKBA and our character (doing the right thing when no one is looking) is important.
Amen brotha.
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Old 07-10-2013, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by frigginchi View Post
This is how they do it in TX.
That looks fun as hell, I wanna try.
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Old 07-10-2013, 7:20 PM
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GUNNTZ GUNNTZ is offline
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Originally Posted by BadMatt View Post
@gunntz and anyone else: I'm an AR noob. Can you explain what you mean by gassed and headspaced? I assume "gassed" means cycling the action. Can you be more specific? Thanks
Didn't realize the thread was still moving. Yes, my term gassed refers to the proper cycling of the bolt/carrier. Early on and still today a bunch of people had issues with improper location of gas tubes and port sizes on the barrel. This made for some interesting cycling issues on the 300blk. While the AR platform bolt will compensate for a little head space variance, it doesn't mean its right. The bolt should be properly checked for distance in between the barrel chamber and bolt for reliable/safe use. Most people just put parts together and assume they will work, this is not always the case because today's definition of "milspec" seems to vary with manufacturers. 90% of the time it is just better to buy a completed upper, the parts have been tested and fit for correct operation; Plus you have a warranty if anything goes wrong.
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