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  #41  
Old 06-02-2013, 4:38 PM
Nickbowen5 Nickbowen5 is offline
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Originally Posted by Smin View Post
I have two possibly three that I need to get Anodized. Let me know if I can get in on a group who need a couple more..
I think we might pm me
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  #42  
Old 06-02-2013, 6:34 PM
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I'm waiting to hear from my neighbor, he said he has two that he wants to get done soon but i'm not going to wait too long. My other buddy is really chopping at the bit to get these finished. He has everything else to build a gun except his lower.
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  #43  
Old 06-03-2013, 6:46 AM
Nickbowen5 Nickbowen5 is offline
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Originally Posted by uechikid View Post
I'm waiting to hear from my neighbor, he said he has two that he wants to get done soon but i'm not going to wait too long. My other buddy is really chopping at the bit to get these finished. He has everything else to build a gun except his lower.
I was hoping we could set up a date for sometime next week if that was okay with everyone involved
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  #44  
Old 06-05-2013, 7:54 PM
Nickbowen5 Nickbowen5 is offline
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It looks like we are setting up a batch date for Monday please pm me for details and to get in on the opportunity
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  #45  
Old 06-05-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Nickbowen5 View Post
It looks like we are setting up a batch date for Monday please pm me for details and to get in on the opportunity
Just sent you a PM.
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  #46  
Old 06-11-2013, 5:44 PM
Nickbowen5 Nickbowen5 is offline
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Anyone interested in splitting the cost of a batch with me?
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  #47  
Old 06-11-2013, 6:05 PM
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Anyone interested in splitting the cost of a batch with me?
I guess I need to apologize to you. I was under the impression that you had a batch of 5 maybe six ready to go. If I would have known that you were flying solo I could have included you in my batch of five. A sixth would have only bee an extra $29. I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding.
I hope you're able to get a batch together.
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  #48  
Old 06-11-2013, 10:07 PM
Nickbowen5 Nickbowen5 is offline
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Originally Posted by uechikid View Post
I guess I need to apologize to you. I was under the impression that you had a batch of 5 maybe six ready to go. If I would have known that you were flying solo I could have included you in my batch of five. A sixth would have only bee an extra $29. I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding.
I hope you're able to get a batch together.
It is fine. I actually had another member but plans may have fallen through as he has not contacted me back
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  #49  
Old 06-12-2013, 12:32 PM
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Anyone interested?
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  #50  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:04 PM
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I would really like to get this lower done ASAP so if there is anyone in or around the Sacramento area that would like to split a batch fee with me to finish their lowers, please PM me.
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  #51  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:41 PM
Nickbowen5 Nickbowen5 is offline
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Would anyone at all be interested?
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  #52  
Old 06-14-2013, 4:47 AM
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Nickbowen5, maybe if you posted your request in the Gun smithing or general discussion you would get some interest.
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  #53  
Old 06-14-2013, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LMTluvr View Post
The only dumb question is the one thats never asked.
You are correct. Now you have a lower with a bunch ofexposed,raw aluminum. Many will argue whether or not it matters but I personally believe in doing it "right the first time". Some say "egging" of the fcg reciever holes can be an issue without anodizing them but ive yet to see someone with any proof of that actually occuring.
80% raw lower-->engraving-->milling--> hard anodization. Youre good to go, everything is protected and and surface hardened from the ano.
Follow up question, wouldn't milling the 80% (i think trigger group) make it 100% and a firearm according to BATF standards?

I have read that the anodizing business is required to have an FFL or some other license to do this to firearms.

If this is not the case, then I should see if anyone could mimic the Sig M400 lower for me to customize.
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  #54  
Old 06-16-2013, 9:52 AM
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anyone?
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  #55  
Old 06-16-2013, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
Follow up question, wouldn't milling the 80% (i think trigger group) make it 100% and a firearm according to BATF standards?

I have read that the anodizing business is required to have an FFL or some other license to do this to firearms.

If this is not the case, then I should see if anyone could mimic the Sig M400 lower for me to customize.
You are correct. The anodizer, to be legal will need to have an FFL, if you leave it there and you leave the premises. If they do it while you wait they don't need an FFL because the never really took custody of the lower. At least that's my understanding.
The fact that some anodizers don't have and FFL and require you to leave your lower for several days doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother them. Especially if I'm getting a good price.
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  #56  
Old 06-18-2013, 8:23 AM
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bump
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  #57  
Old 06-23-2013, 6:05 PM
Syskiyou Syskiyou is offline
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Default info?

+1 for info!

I just joined the forum, what does "+1 for info" mean?
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  #58  
Old 06-29-2013, 6:06 AM
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Default DOJ Classification

Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
Follow up question, wouldn't milling the 80% (i think trigger group) make it 100% and a firearm according to BATF standards?

I have read that the anodizing business is required to have an FFL or some other license to do this to firearms.

If this is not the case, then I should see if anyone could mimic the Sig M400 lower for me to customize.
I have a response from the DOJ which specifically lists that any milling or drilling for the FCG will constitute a firearm. Therefore, no spot drilling for pins or safety, no etching the outline of the FCG Pocket. They do list a specific size of a pocket you may place in a "non-firearm" so that the upper can mate to the lower ... but this pocket is real tight. The letter does not address any engraving. Fed DOJ website pertaining to personally manufacturing firearms "highly recommends" placing identifying markings on your DIY in case it is lost or stolen.
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  #59  
Old 06-29-2013, 6:16 AM
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Default Anodization When & Where

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Originally Posted by uechikid View Post
You are correct. The anodizer, to be legal will need to have an FFL, if you leave it there and you leave the premises. If they do it while you wait they don't need an FFL because the never really took custody of the lower. At least that's my understanding.
The fact that some anodizers don't have and FFL and require you to leave your lower for several days doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother them. Especially if I'm getting a good price.
This is correct. Once any milling or drilling for the FCG is completed the part is now considered a firearm per DOJ. Therefore, leaving the part with an anodizer would require them to have an FFL. In the strict terms of the law, they must log all firearms taken into possession and check for lost or stolen serial numbers. A non-serialized DIY lower creates an issue with a FFL as most have no serial number? Best to stay with your DIY as it is anodized so no logging is required .... which also keeps your name/address off any list.

Mike with AMF (American Metal Finishing) in Roseville is FFL 07 licensed and can do both "as you wait" or leave it there. Down the street from AMF is Roseville Advanced Machining which can engrave your part before or after anodization, among other things.
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  #60  
Old 06-29-2013, 7:15 AM
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Default Bare Metal After Anodization

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Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
really dumb question, but if you anodize an 80% wouldn't the bare metal show when you go to drill out the trigger area?

Shouldn't you anodize after making it 100%? I recall something to do with the company requiring FFL or something to anodize a firearm, but not sure.

You 80% guys just deal with the bare metal after drilling?
This is actually an excellent question which is finally being addressed. I will do the best in the 'way too long response' addressing both the bare metal look and the pitfalls of raw aluminum.

Drilling & milling after anodization will leave small bare aluminum rings around where the FCG & safety pins go. Also a small bare aluminum ring can be seen where the trigger shoe opening is milled. In both areas a small burr may be left from the milling & drilling. IMMEDIATELY after performing your work carefully deburr the part taking all the burr off and not chamfering the part. Wash your part in cold water and pat dry. Dip a q-tip in Birchwood Casey's AlumiBlack and soak the areas you deburred. Do not let the liquid dry on the part as it will stain a different color. Carefully pat off any excess AlumiBlack and lightly rub any remnant around until no excess is on the original anodization. Reapply as necessary. Let dry for 24 hours prior to assembly. Most times this works pretty decently.

Another way to hide the bare aluminum is to use KNS Gen II FCG pins and an ambidextrous safety. On the trigger shoe opening one could use chromed or NiB coated hammer/trigger which solves a few issues among the looks thing.

Bare aluminum pours are sealed when hi speed drills & mills are used to cut out the FCG assembly. Therefore deburring the edge will expose raw-unsealed aluminum to any cold anodization process you use. But another problem with bare aluminum is oxidation which unaddressed can creep over years under the anodization and turn your part a gray/brown. Adding to the problem of bare aluminum's look issue and oxidation issue is the problem with electrolysis. Bare aluminum in contact with steel can create a deterioration process. To my limited understanding of this process... you can minimize this problem by using stainless steel pins (KNS and others) and use chromed or NiB coated FCG parts sold by many. Although the mil-spec LPK's come parkerized or blued this coating is extremely thin and has a tendency to vanish as these parts are used.

I have a few 80% milled and have not experienced any of the problems listed above. Everything written above was learned from metal finishers. I'm not altogether convinced we need be that concerned with long term oxidation & electrolysis but only time will tell?

Good luck with your 80%. If you have questions or need help I'm a machine shop in Roseville. Gerrold (916)865-8678. Sorry, can't list my website or the moderators will lock my personal account.
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  #61  
Old 06-29-2013, 12:15 PM
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anbu_yoshi anbu_yoshi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surviving_Life View Post
This is actually an excellent question which is finally being addressed. I will do the best in the 'way too long response' addressing both the bare metal look and the pitfalls of raw aluminum.

Drilling & milling after anodization will leave small bare aluminum rings around where the FCG & safety pins go. Also a small bare aluminum ring can be seen where the trigger shoe opening is milled. In both areas a small burr may be left from the milling & drilling. IMMEDIATELY after performing your work carefully deburr the part taking all the burr off and not chamfering the part. Wash your part in cold water and pat dry. Dip a q-tip in Birchwood Casey's AlumiBlack and soak the areas you deburred. Do not let the liquid dry on the part as it will stain a different color. Carefully pat off any excess AlumiBlack and lightly rub any remnant around until no excess is on the original anodization. Reapply as necessary. Let dry for 24 hours prior to assembly. Most times this works pretty decently.

Another way to hide the bare aluminum is to use KNS Gen II FCG pins and an ambidextrous safety. On the trigger shoe opening one could use chromed or NiB coated hammer/trigger which solves a few issues among the looks thing.

Bare aluminum pours are sealed when hi speed drills & mills are used to cut out the FCG assembly. Therefore deburring the edge will expose raw-unsealed aluminum to any cold anodization process you use. But another problem with bare aluminum is oxidation which unaddressed can creep over years under the anodization and turn your part a gray/brown. Adding to the problem of bare aluminum's look issue and oxidation issue is the problem with electrolysis. Bare aluminum in contact with steel can create a deterioration process. To my limited understanding of this process... you can minimize this problem by using stainless steel pins (KNS and others) and use chromed or NiB coated FCG parts sold by many. Although the mil-spec LPK's come parkerized or blued this coating is extremely thin and has a tendency to vanish as these parts are used.

I have a few 80% milled and have not experienced any of the problems listed above. Everything written above was learned from metal finishers. I'm not altogether convinced we need be that concerned with long term oxidation & electrolysis but only time will tell?

Good luck with your 80%. If you have questions or need help I'm a machine shop in Roseville. Gerrold (916)865-8678. Sorry, can't list my website or the moderators will lock my personal account.
OOOO So helpful. The science behind it. Love it.

I'll be in touch.
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