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  #1  
Old 05-11-2013, 4:26 PM
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Stamatos Stamatos is offline
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Angry Bad experience

Now I am not usually the sort of person to go bad mouth a business based on one experience but the way I was treated in this place today really needs to be shared.
I've been in J&R several times and while not the warmest gun store in the East Bay, it wasn't unfriendly. My wife has even purchased a firearm here as I've bought accessories, targets and magazines. All of this has happened within the limits of good customer service.
All that changed today.
I've had issues with an AR I threw together for some time. Was told to bring it by. Now I'm no AR expert but when I bought my lower, it was purchased as "complete". I through an upper on it , made sure everything fit and started taking it through the paces. I've put about 800 rounds through it and never had an issue save for one. I noticed that my bolt wouldn't stay back after the last round and I'm no fan of the platform anyway so thought I'd sell it.
The first contact with the guy who "helped" me was annoyance, that set us off on the wrong foot but hey, maybe he's having a bad day. Told him my story and he seemed to become more annoyed. that's strange, I'm just asking what I need to do here but shoot, I'll grin through it. He opens the rifle up and after several condescending comments about my choice of cheek rest ("I know it looks cool in movies but you don't need this") all the way to the hardware itself ("look at this, what a piece of junk"), he finally decides to tell me what the problem is and how I need to stay away from guns and not quirt my day job because there is $10 worth of pins and springs that were not installed on the lower when I bought it.
Okay, I get being annoyed by "mall ninja" crap, I get being annoyed by all the armchair gunsmiths, I get having a hard day and I get dealing with a population of know-it-alls or complete buffoons that may ruin your livelihood BUT I came in as a customer with honest questions and no ego about the fact that I didn't have the answers and I was reaching out to others who enjoy my hobby for help.
The up side may be that at some point things turned about 2 seconds shy of me losing my **** and telling this place where they can shove their attitude. I refused to engage the personal insults and the tone shifted when the manager was asked if she could sell it. The original guy even said the rifle was fine and "don't worry about it". They agreed to sell my rifle on consignment as long as there is nothing too crazy that needs repair and the gal that helped with the paperwork was fast, professional and got me out
I sincerely hope that I caught this guy on a bad day and that others are not being treated like this. I'm a volunteer with the police department, a member of the local range and have enjoyed shooting for over 20 years so it isn't like I'm the bubba off the street trying to duct tape a grenade launcher to my sks. My wife found this to be the exact environment that kept her from the hobby for so long and as she said, why she is "afraid to go in places like that because I don't want to be treated like a moron."
So to this store, I apologize for not realizing I was missing a few pins and springs that hold my buffer tube in. My experience is with soviet weapons that apparently don't need these things to keep it from blowing up in your face. I'm sorry I use a cheek rest because it is comfortable and gives a place to store a mag and sorry I use a scope because my eyes are so bad.
I decided to post this here over Yelp or Google so that other calgunners could read my experience and more importantly, the store could have the space to respond in the event that I was somehow out of line or otherwise deserved this treatment. I'm happy you offered to sell the rifle and for the fast service that got me out the door. I hope our business concludes with money in our pockets but this will likely be the last business we do together and I can't say I'll be in a rush to refer others here in the future.
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2013, 12:38 PM
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jrsportssupply jrsportssupply is offline
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I would like to apologize for the service you received in our shop. I have spoken to the person who worked with you, and I think his attitude could have been better in dealing with you.
That said, it's pretty clear the rifle you brought in was dangerous to the shooter. It was apparent that the builder of this rifle had relatively little familiarity with the AR platform. Upon inspection of the weapon, the dangerous condition of the rifle is what shocked the person you dealt with, and provoked his response to you. I agree that the response was unacceptable, but I also understand what upset him. Here is Ian's report:

My name is Ian, I worked on your rifle. Here are the issues I found.

The Taper pins on the FSB were backing out, one was loose and could be moved by hand, the other would have been like that VERY soon. This can cause the rifle to not cycle properly at best; at worst, can cause the gases to be vented onto the shooters hand(depending on grip) or vertically and possibly at the shooters face. (The chances are slim however). This more than likely would just be a PITA for the shooter, resulting in canted front sights and cycling issues.


The Lower had some assembly problems:

The buffer retainer wasn't installed at all.
The take down detent wasn't installed.
The buffer tube was installed hand tight with a rubber o-ring to, what I assume was, add tension. I tightened it to spec.
The stock screw was tightened to the point that it had passed through the stock end plate, damaging it, which allowed the screw to impact the buffer under firing conditions. Subsequently the buffer's urethane stopper is damaged (I did not replace this as I don't have just that stopper, I do however have complete A2 buffer assemblies)
I replaced the stock end plate
Installed a proper length stock screw(A1)
Tightened the pistol grip
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2013, 3:49 PM
Bull Elk Bull Elk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stamatos View Post
Now I am not usually the sort of person to go bad mouth a business based on one experience but the way I was treated in this place today really needs to be shared.
I've been in J&R several times and while not the warmest gun store in the East Bay, it wasn't unfriendly. My wife has even purchased a firearm here as I've bought accessories, targets and magazines. All of this has happened within the limits of good customer service.
All that changed today.
I've had issues with an AR I threw together for some time. Was told to bring it by. Now I'm no AR expert but when I bought my lower, it was purchased as "complete". I through an upper on it , made sure everything fit and started taking it through the paces. I've put about 800 rounds through it and never had an issue save for one. I noticed that my bolt wouldn't stay back after the last round and I'm no fan of the platform anyway so thought I'd sell it.
The first contact with the guy who "helped" me was annoyance, that set us off on the wrong foot but hey, maybe he's having a bad day. Told him my story and he seemed to become more annoyed. that's strange, I'm just asking what I need to do here but shoot, I'll grin through it. He opens the rifle up and after several condescending comments about my choice of cheek rest ("I know it looks cool in movies but you don't need this") all the way to the hardware itself ("look at this, what a piece of junk"), he finally decides to tell me what the problem is and how I need to stay away from guns and not quirt my day job because there is $10 worth of pins and springs that were not installed on the lower when I bought it.
Okay, I get being annoyed by "mall ninja" crap, I get being annoyed by all the armchair gunsmiths, I get having a hard day and I get dealing with a population of know-it-alls or complete buffoons that may ruin your livelihood BUT I came in as a customer with honest questions and no ego about the fact that I didn't have the answers and I was reaching out to others who enjoy my hobby for help.
The up side may be that at some point things turned about 2 seconds shy of me losing my **** and telling this place where they can shove their attitude. I refused to engage the personal insults and the tone shifted when the manager was asked if she could sell it. The original guy even said the rifle was fine and "don't worry about it". They agreed to sell my rifle on consignment as long as there is nothing too crazy that needs repair and the gal that helped with the paperwork was fast, professional and got me out
I sincerely hope that I caught this guy on a bad day and that others are not being treated like this. I'm a volunteer with the police department, a member of the local range and have enjoyed shooting for over 20 years so it isn't like I'm the bubba off the street trying to duct tape a grenade launcher to my sks. My wife found this to be the exact environment that kept her from the hobby for so long and as she said, why she is "afraid to go in places like that because I don't want to be treated like a moron."
So to this store, I apologize for not realizing I was missing a few pins and springs that hold my buffer tube in. My experience is with soviet weapons that apparently don't need these things to keep it from blowing up in your face. I'm sorry I use a cheek rest because it is comfortable and gives a place to store a mag and sorry I use a scope because my eyes are so bad.
I decided to post this here over Yelp or Google so that other calgunners could read my experience and more importantly, the store could have the space to respond in the event that I was somehow out of line or otherwise deserved this treatment. I'm happy you offered to sell the rifle and for the fast service that got me out the door. I hope our business concludes with money in our pockets but this will likely be the last business we do together and I can't say I'll be in a rush to refer others here in the future.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I've frequented J&R for several years, driving to/from Vacaville, and have never had a bad experience; in fact, the reason I drive 65 miles each way is because of the quality customer service I've recieved each and every time I've frequented the store.....much better customer service than my local gun store. So, hopefully this employee did indeed have a bad day and you were the unfortunate customer that was on the receiving end. I would recommend that you not let one bad experience keep you from returning. Chalk it up for what it really was....just one bad experience. I'm sure you'll have nothing but good experiences with them going forward. Best of luck!
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  #4  
Old 06-06-2013, 1:34 PM
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Good on J&R for the reply/follow-up
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  #5  
Old 06-10-2013, 8:48 PM
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The upside of the availability/popularity of the AR-15 platform is that just about anyone can get parts and assemble one. The downside is that not everyone knows what they are doing when they build one. Unfortunately for the OP, he wasn't/isn't familiar enough with the platform to know what to look for or how to troubleshoot it. We all start out at zero knowledge and sometimes forget that and let passion for building (and selling) something right cloud our better judgement when dealing with someone who's less familiar with what they may have.
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2013, 3:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHShooter View Post
Good on J&R for the reply/follow-up
Why? Sorry we blew you out / this is why we blew you out! CS is dead Vote with your $
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  #7  
Old 06-20-2013, 9:24 PM
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Hey OP good job, no matter the circumstances or parties involved, making your voice heard is the best thing you can do to warn other consumers and let business know they can't treat consumers poorly. Thanks for the heads up, better luck with your next experience!
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2013, 11:51 AM
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My experience has been hit or miss. There's one old guy in there that I always enjoyed dealing with. Everyone else had attitude. After the last pistol I bought there I decided I would find friendlier places to spend my to my money.

One employee actually told my ex that she should probably buy a smaller caliber pistol, as the .357 was a mans gun, and too big for a girl.
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2013, 3:01 PM
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I stopped in to this place fo the first time last week on the way past because their phone systems prompts were funny. I got a pretty good vibe from this place and bought some ammo in support. I reload and although pretty picked through was happy to see a shop support reloading.
Glad they responded to op and don't blame them for trying to explain the employee's reaction. They started with taking responsibility for his behavior and that's rare.
If chemistry isn't right then move on or come back another time. Trust your take on others. If they annoy you then it will only get worse.
Best to all.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2013, 11:01 AM
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I have bought a couple of guns at J&R and I I have done a couple of ppt's. I have went in just for information and other times just to buy some ammo. I really enjoy going in there. All the guys I have dealt with are my kinda guys. Good guys you could hang out and have a beer with. Just my opinion.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
My experience has been hit or miss. There's one old guy in there that I always enjoyed dealing with. Everyone else had attitude. After the last pistol I bought there I decided I would find friendlier places to spend my to my money.

One employee actually told my ex that she should probably buy a smaller caliber pistol, as the .357 was a mans gun, and too big for a girl.
i would LOVE to know who said that. that would be nipped in the bud instantly. please PM me.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2013, 9:28 PM
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I've done three ppt's and purchased many accessories @J&Rs.

They also host a fantastic non-res UT/Fl/AZ ccw course.

Sorry to hear of the OP's experience, but felt compelled to share my .02, great local East Bay shop in my opinion.
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2013, 11:28 AM
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Great shop, just DROS'd another pistol there yesterday. Very accommodating and patient staff, more than willing to take their time with every customer that walks in the door. I go out of my way to come here as this is one of the better LGS's in the area, not to mention that they seem to be around $100 cheaper than everyone else. Sorry for the OP's experience, but I've never had a bad experience here. Maybe he just caught someone on a bad day.
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Old 07-04-2013, 9:29 PM
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Seems all too many shops have customer service issues, whether it's 1 employee or the majority of them. That's retail in general, that all being said, J&R's apology seems hollow and half hearted, and explaining the employee's conduct almost makes it sound like it was a valid reaction. So what the lower was improperly put together, why on earth would you need to reply with condencending comments, as well as other comments about his accessories! Even if you're having a bad day, what does the cheek rest and scope have anything to do with anything.

Completely and utterly unacceptable behavior (bad day or not), and piss poor apology by J&R, especially with the "Upon inspection of the weapon, the dangerous condition of the rifle is what shocked the person you dealt with, and provoked his response to you. I agree that the response was unacceptable, but I also understand what upset him. Here is Ian's report". ARE YOU SERIOUS, how about here's Ian's apology, on your next visit ask for me and I'll take care of you! GEEZ unbelievable

OP take your wallet elsewhere, J&R isn't even half attempting to win your business back! IMHO
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Old 07-06-2013, 9:33 PM
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Thank you to the J&R staff for addressing this, I'm sorry for neglecting this thread since the posting of it. I'm disappointed to hear that the lower was assembled so poorly as I purchased it assembled by the manufacturer and could not have been aware there were these issues. I slapped an upper on a lower with a new stock and rail system, that's it. It proceeded to function and fire accurately out to 75 yards which is all I asked it to do until I became disenchanted with the platform and realized my bolt was not staying back. Then I took it in where I was treated like the village fool and insulted in front of my wife. And though I agree that the J&R reply isn't much of an apology, I appreciate Ian coming here to let me know what the exact issues were and the work he did to fix them.
I further appreciate the support of those who have had similar as well as different experiences here. Like I said in the original post, I'd had indifferent to friendly interactions up until that day. I wrestled with my desire to give the benefit of the doubt and my desire to write hateful reviews all over the internet because of one terrible interaction. So I came here first to try and satisfy both sides of me, HA!

I have yet to receive a call from staff letting me know if they wanted me to take the rifle back or were able to sell it. If there is any other resolution needed in this matter, please feel free to PM me (you also have all my contact info) and we can settle this in a less public forum.

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread. I will gladly post a follow up when all is said and done.
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Old 07-23-2013, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE View Post
Seems all too many shops have customer service issues, whether it's 1 employee or the majority of them. That's retail in general, that all being said, J&R's apology seems hollow and half hearted, and explaining the employee's conduct almost makes it sound like it was a valid reaction. So what the lower was improperly put together, why on earth would you need to reply with condencending comments, as well as other comments about his accessories! Even if you're having a bad day, what does the cheek rest and scope have anything to do with anything.

Completely and utterly unacceptable behavior (bad day or not), and piss poor apology by J&R, especially with the "Upon inspection of the weapon, the dangerous condition of the rifle is what shocked the person you dealt with, and provoked his response to you. I agree that the response was unacceptable, but I also understand what upset him. Here is Ian's report". ARE YOU SERIOUS, how about here's Ian's apology, on your next visit ask for me and I'll take care of you! GEEZ unbelievable

OP take your wallet elsewhere, J&R isn't even half attempting to win your business back! IMHO
How about accuse the right person, I was not involved in this. I posted this because I care. The employee has been reprimanded, which I am not going into. I wont however have someone totally outside of the situation bad-mouth me while all i have done is try to make things right.

Ian

Last edited by cseabass; 07-23-2013 at 1:33 PM..
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:37 PM
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Appears OP tried to sell a broken gun and got some jabs for it, don't see the problem here. I've been to J&R its a good shop.
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2013, 6:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cseabass View Post
How about accuse the right person, I was not involved in this. I posted this because I care. The employee has been reprimanded, which I am not going into. I wont however have someone totally outside of the situation bad-mouth me while all i have done is try to make things right.

Ian
Gimme the name of that employee and I'll be more than happy to. My disbelief comes not only from the employee who was a complete jerk to one of your customers, but particularly from the J&R staff member who originally responded to the op's thread. He appears to be someone of authority and I truly believe his attempt to appologize and rectify the situation has failure written all over it, PERIOD! He clearly isn't shocked by a paying customer who was being treated like dog poo, and essentially makes excuses for his employee's behavior, all the while handing out a xerox copied apology. If this employee was so shocked by what he found upon inspection (which I assume is part of his job) of said firearm that he felt the need to insult the op, particularly the op's taste in accessories, then maybe said employee should be given a different job.

This was about as an easy fix as retail comes, reiterate a sincere apology and simply just tell the op he'll be taken care of on his next visit and you'll notify him when his gun sells, WOW that was hard. The manager (or whom ever replied) never even said the employee was reprimanded nor was he going to be, that's something you want the CG community to know, J&R doesn't tolerate such behavior from it's staff. It's as if nothing would've happened had this not been made public. The op states "I was treated like the village fool and insulted in front of my wife", he posted this thread on 5/13/13, 2 months later (7/6/13) nobody has called him or pm'd him regarding status of the situation, WHAT AM I MISSING?!

As for you Ian, I absolutely wasn't bad mouthing you, you clearly weren't the original employee who replied on behalf of J&R regarding this complaint. I felt his response was utterly meaningless because of the way this was handled. Where I mentioned your name, I was just saying that the original responding employee should've said "here's so and so's apology" instead of "here's Ians report". I put your name their and I apologize, kudos for you for showing interest in solving the issue and displaying customer service aptitude.
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