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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013, 2:21 PM
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Thumbs up Home Defence Shotgun

I'm looking for a HD Shotgun. I'm 5'4 135 lbs My husband has a 12 ga Winchester Pump which I do not like. He says a simi-auto would be best for me. I shoot a G19 and Sig P229 9mm. Will I like a 20 ga or the simi-auto 12 ga better? Please help. Thank You.
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2013, 3:38 PM
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The 12 ga semi auto's have less kick, because some of the recoil is absorbed by gun. As I understand it, part of the gas that is let off when you shoot is used to rack the next round. I was told this, I tried it and know it to be true.

Also, semi automatics depending on model, can hold maybe five rounds (there's a plug you can remove) where conventional shotguns can hold only on or two, and then you reload. If I were defending myself and my family, I vote for five chances to connect, not one or two....

Assuming you can shoulder it, a longer heavier gun has less kick, believe it or not, because the gun weight itself absorbs some of the shock. Best thing is to try some out at a trap range that rents them.

This is a bit of a dilemma. Long barrels absorb shock better, but they are harder to manage indoors than shorter barrels. I think if you split the difference and went for a 26" barrel you could use it to shoot trap with too, if you're interested.

To me, the ideal shotgun would come with a 28" barrel and an 18 1/2" barrel that were interchangeable.

I'm not certain that a 20 gauge would be a for-sure bad guy stopper. And that's the point, in home defense. I am sure a 12 ga with 00 buckshot would be. Especially with five rounds available.
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2013, 4:06 PM
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Thank you for the info.
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Old 01-27-2013, 4:27 PM
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A good overview of the 20 gauge:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

One woman's ideal 20 gauge defensive shotgun:

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm...ical-20-gauge/

Hope this helps,

-- Michael
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2013, 5:37 PM
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Lot's of reading but very interesting. Thanks
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2013, 7:15 PM
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You and I are almost the same height/weight. I have a Remington 870 6+1. Go shoot one, youll like it
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Old 01-27-2013, 7:18 PM
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Kel-Tec KSG if you can get your hands on one. Bill pup configuration so it's small. Two 12ga tubes that hold six rounds, and one in the chamber and that's 13 shots for home defense.

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  #8  
Old 01-27-2013, 7:56 PM
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I've worked with several women in teaching shooting and I'd like to offer point of view on this.

I worked in LE for 28 years and had to lug around a 12ge Rem 870. I never liked or felt comfortable with it until near the end of my career when I finally paid for a course in how to use it correctly. A lot of being able to handle a 12ga is technique.

If it hadn't been mandated that we carry 12ge shotguns, I would have carried a 20ga. A 20ga shotgun loaded with #4 buckshot is all you really need if you aren't shooting at cars or going through barricaded doors. I first read about this in reading Massad Ayoob's book Stressfire II and have tested it out myself...as in handguns, it is all about shot placement.

I think the perfect shotgun for someone starting out is a 20ga pump or semi-auto with a 21" barrel and a straight English stock. It points very well (like a lever action rifle) and is easy to shoot. The problem with 20ga shotguns is that they don't go on sale as often as 12ga ones do...so they are more expensive.

Having said all that, I should admit that my HD shotgun is a 12ga FN SLP, but it is a bit spendy...the 20ga is in the garage
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2013, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
...Also, semi automatics depending on model, can hold maybe five rounds (there's a plug you can remove) where conventional shotguns can hold only on or two, and then you reload. If I were defending myself and my family, I vote for five chances to connect, not one or two....
Most of the pump action HD shotguns hold at least 5 rounds. This is a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 (or 590) or Maverick 88, all with 18.5" barrel. You can step up to a 7 round capacity with a 20" barrel. I chose the Mossberg 500 with the 7 round capacity for myself.

Semi-autos are easier on recoil than a pump or breach open model. However, you can practice with 'featherweight' loads in a pump or breach open sg. These decrease felt recoil considerably. I use them myself too shoot skeet out of a Beretta O/U. However, the 'featherweight' loads are a poor choice for HD and the 'featherweight' loads do not produce enough energy to properly cycle a semi-auto shotgun.

Hopefully, you can practice with mostly 'Featherweights' and occasionally load up with full energy loads just too insure you can use them effectively if you choose a pump sg for your needs.
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2013, 5:09 PM
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You can get a Mossberg 500 at Big 5 that usually comes with 2 barrels.

I have a Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag that I bought when I was 18. It has a 26" barrel but I also have an 18.5" for home defense.

I recently bought a 590 (8+1) to replace it as my home defense shotgun.

I'm only 5'5" 125 and started shooting skeet when I was 12 or 13. I think at that time I was about 5'2"ish and only 100 pounds soaking wet. After an hour or two of trap my arms do get tired but in fairness so does my shooting partner who is a 6' 200 pound male.

I have honestly never shot a 20 gague but based on what I've seen/read/heard, I'd stick with the 12.
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  #11  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:31 PM
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We have 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns, from Mossberg 500's with pistol grips, to Benelli Nova/Supernovas with Rifle Stocks, to Benelli Cordoba's, M1's, M2's, M4's, and everything in between including a .410

....and they're all shot by women.

In fact, she has an AOW: a Safety Harbor 20 gauge ...

http://www.safetyharborfirearms.com/...ducts/shotguns

If you're ever curious to try out different shotguns in Socal let us know.

Something to think about that no one has mentioned: Law Enforcement and Competitors use "Low Recoil" rounds, which help with the "kick".

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  #12  
Old 01-30-2013, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glbtrottr View Post
...Something to think about that no one has mentioned: Law Enforcement and Competitors use "Low Recoil" rounds, which help with the "kick".

Mentioned in post #9, second and third paragraphs.
What Low Recoil rounds are effective enough for HD?
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2013, 10:08 PM
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Default My opinion

I would honestly recommend as a home defense gone the 20 gauge. My boyfriend and I went to big 5 yesterday and I tried the Rossi 20 gauge single shot and it is super light. For a home defense you don't want something hard to handle, you want easy and efficient. Just my preference though! Good Luck in your decisions!
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Old 02-05-2013, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissah View Post
...I went to big 5 yesterday and I tried the Rossi 20 gauge single shot and it is super light. For a home defense you don't want something hard to handle, you want easy and efficient. ..
Did you actually fire the gun?
A super light single shot will 'kick' harder, even in 20 gauge. The weight helps tame the recoil. Less weight = more recoil.
Before you make your choice, try to fire a couple of them too see what actually shoots best. The way they feel in the store is not the best indicator.
Good luck.
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2013, 8:15 AM
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My wife is of similar stature... She shot my younger brother's 20 ga. It's a Remington youth model (not sure of model number) and really liked it. It was easier for her to handle, since it was slightly smaller than a full sized shotgun. She's been on me to get her one ever since. For whatever reason, I can't convince her to shoot a 12 ga. I suppose she was intimidated by watching the guys shooting one...
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  #16  
Old 02-05-2013, 1:58 PM
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I have had some of the same issue but for my dad who is in his 70's with shoulder issues. The 870P I gave him pounds him and he did not like any of my semis in 12 gauge either... And I have had him shoot my Benelli M4, FN SLP, and 1100 Police (I am just missing a Saiga 12).

There are a few 20 gauge shotguns for home defense that are not too expensive.
See http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...hotgun-review/
Also Saiga 20 (with BB which make slow reloading but 10 rounds is still a lot)

I have been thinking about a pistol carbine. My only issue is he doesn't like anything that is evil black gun (go figure) which cuts out most semis (including shotguns). I have been thinking lever 357.

And don't rule out a 223 rifle with right ammo it has a lot less penetration in house versus shotguns or even most pistols. Just try to get a non-bullet button. like a Saiga 223, Benelli 223, Keltec SU16 (not sure if I would trust the Keltec with life (and yes I have one)).

Lots of options for recoil sensitive.

If I could ever get my wife to shoot I might be in same boat with my 12s...
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:36 PM
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To the O.P.

Any of the three gauges with the correct ammo will be up to the task as long as the user does their part.

I like a .410 for Home defense because it is lighter weight,has lower recoil,and uses the same ammo as my defensive handgun (I don't live in Cali.)

There are plenty of good scatterguns made in 12 and 20 though.

But I'll leave the choice up to you on which.

No matter which gauge you choose make sure to pattern your gun with different ammo to get a feel for how it's going to act with a given load.

I will say this though,birdshot is good for manual of arms training,but for defense use buckshot.

#4-Buck is a good urban defensive load in any gauge,it will put plenty of hurting on a bad guy at close range and will offer a reduced (notice I said reduced) chance of pellets slamming completely through your intended target.

#1 buck-'000' buck is good if you don't live in an area where over penetration is a worry.

Slugs- If you live on a ranch or an area with no other homes for miles a slug can be a very good option for extended range defensive use.
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2013, 12:38 AM
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What did you not like about the Winchester pump?

Recoil and/or size?

12ga recoil can be mitigated a great deal by things like a Limbsaver recoil pad or like some have suggested a gas operated semi-auto. For the latter, many action shooters are saying that the Remington VersaMax is the softest shooting semi-auto shotgun they have ever tried. One drawback to any semi-auto (except Benelli M2) is the weight as compared to a pump action.

Size can be an issue as well because how you and the gun fit together can affect how comfortable you are with it. Fitment can be adjusted by a competent gunsmith.
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Old 02-15-2013, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
Kel-Tec KSG if you can get your hands on one. Bill pup configuration so it's small. Two 12ga tubes that hold six rounds, and one in the chamber and that's 13 shots for home defense.

It that switch wasn't manual, but switched over automatically when one tube emptied, I would be all over this gun. But watching the video and seeing him work the switch killed my enthusiasm
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad Kitty View Post
It that switch wasn't manual, but switched over automatically when one tube emptied, I would be all over this gun. But watching the video and seeing him work the switch killed my enthusiasm
Yea, I agree. But, with some training like anything you'd be able to flip switch in less than a second and not even have to look.
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  #21  
Old 05-11-2013, 10:47 AM
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I'm new to the forum as of today and I'm looking for the shotgun that you should be looking for. Rossi 12 gauge stagecoach with 20" S by S barrels. You can hold this gun at your hip and fire both barrels at once and will not knock you over or hurt you, however I would save the other barrel for the next guy that comes in after him, they come in pairs just like the rabbit ear external hammers that you can have cocked with the safety on. This was the best gun I ever had for HD but sold it when I moved to So CAl. BTW have an extra front door on hand to replace your front door. Bob
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Originally Posted by whtl View Post
I'm looking for a HD Shotgun. I'm 5'4 135 lbs My husband has a 12 ga Winchester Pump which I do not like. He says a simi-auto would be best for me. I shoot a G19 and Sig P229 9mm. Will I like a 20 ga or the simi-auto 12 ga better? Please help. Thank You.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:52 AM
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You and I are almost the same height/weight. I have a Remington 870 6+1. Go shoot one, youll like it
pics or it didnt happen.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:53 AM
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personally I think a pump action is way to go as less chances of a failure when really need it.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtl View Post
I'm looking for a HD Shotgun. I'm 5'4 135 lbs My husband has a 12 ga Winchester Pump which I do not like. He says a simi-auto would be best for me. I shoot a G19 and Sig P229 9mm. Will I like a 20 ga or the simi-auto 12 ga better? Please help. Thank You.

Just to go back to the OP's first post.


Here's the thing, yes, ideally we want her to be comfortable with the shotgun, sure. And who here doesn't advocate for "mo guns = mo better"? LOL But, really, if her purpose is for home defense, then why does she need a second shotgun just for her? She didn't say that she couldn't pick it up, or that it was too heavy to hold, or that it knocks her to the floor. She said that she "didn't like it". I interpret that as it probably has too much kick - uncomfortable, but shootable.


If she said she was also hoping to use the shotgun for trap shooting or hunting, ok cool; however, she didn't say that. "Home defense" is one of the those once-in-a-lifetime incidents where some dude breaks into your house. All she has to do it pick the shotgun up, point it in the direction of the intruder, pull the trigger and remain standing long enough to either run or rack it again. The fact that she'll later realize she has an "owie" on her shoulder should not be a reason for buying a "lighter" shotgun for home defense.


If her husband already has a solid 12ga Winchester for home defense; just use that one. Seriously. When the poop hits the fan moment comes, you're going to be so scared and amped up that you're probably not going to notice the "kick" anyway.


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Old 05-11-2013, 3:28 PM
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While the following is a user dependent constant, I would oppose the use of long arms for home defense on two grounds, including shotguns.

One; the size of the weapon itself. A 16" shotgun can be an unwieldy gun to swing around corners no matter who's holding it. While the layout of your residence will determine how bad or good this situation may be in your case, very few homes and apartments ive visted and lived in would be suitable defending using a non-NFA long arm. There is a good reason many SWAT and LE agencies use short barreled M4's. Sometimes spaces can be so tight even a full size pistol can be awkward, to say nothing of a shotgun.

Two, a handgun is much easier to conceal. Why would you need to conceal a home defense weapon?

Because not every noise at 2AM is a threat to your life. A knock on your door at that hour could be a home invader ......or it could be a LEO warning you of a bad guy that's on the loose. That is of course predicated on it being nighttime-many criminals have wised up to the modern pattern of man and woman being away from home during the day, so the current pattern of many home invaders is to ring the doorbell and see if their mark's home at mid-afternoon.

Walking up to the door with a shotgun may be exercising prudence, but the freaked out pizza delivery driver may not see things that way! A handgun can be carried and even held without the person on the other side of the door knowing so, which goes a long way to preventing frivolous calls to 911 from scared neighbors about the psycho woman with a shotgun.

Reason three is that a pistol is much easier to transport around the residence then a long arm, shotgun or otherwise. Toting around a 20 gauge as one eats, showers, watches TV, and cooks food would be quite tiring. A handgun the OP can shoot well may be carried about the home with little disruption to one's daily routine. I emphasize this point because when sugar turns to sh**t it frequently does so on the drop of a hat. A 20 gauge located upstairs is worthless when the Uzi-packing rapist is coming through your window 3 feet away!
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Old 05-12-2013, 7:31 AM
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I always have my remington 870 shotgun ready as well as a 9mm pistol. Late night noise to check out I always use my pistol. I hear glass or door breaking in and its for sure a suspect noise I grab both with shotgun in hand and pistol in waist.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
(there's a plug you can remove)
Is that legal?
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:56 AM
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Is that legal?
The plug is for restrictions placed on hunters - if you're not hunting, or in a place where the Fish and Game folks think you might be hunting, then removing the plug is legal.
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Old 06-08-2013, 6:29 PM
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Old 07-29-2013, 7:38 AM
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I know this is an older thread but wanted to "chime in" since our home situation has light frame to military size people. If you decide on a shotgun, be aware that Mossbergs and Remingtons (we have a Mossy) can be customized or purchased for the smaller frame person and a larger frame person usually finds the smaller firearm comfortable anyway. Most importantly, if you are getting something for home defense THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN SITUATION. You will hear lots of "you must..." or "all homes must..." For example, maybe you do or do not need a light attachment. Think about how/where the gun will be stored at the 3 most likely times you'd need access and how that affects the choice of gun, safe or holding device, and OTHER actions such as increased security (how to prevent, deter, or slow down for example) as possible attacker. Pre-thought and pre-planning are important. Start with the 3 likely scenarios and work back from there? Just my thoughts.
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Old 07-29-2013, 8:48 AM
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Ill add my 2 cents also:

Please keep in mind your suroundings and that any shotgun load will go through multiple walls. I saw one comparison where the birdshot went through 3 sheets of plywood and the buckshot went through like 7 and the slugs went through all the wood they had (like 10 total) and kept going. At typical home defense distances (<20 feet) a birdshot pattern is the size of a golf ball and is very lethal.

People often get caught up in things like this but IMO the gun/ammo is low on the priority list. Most important thing is having a firearm available, stored safely yet accessible, and knowing how to use the gun if necessary.

A .22 revolver that you are familiar with, stored safely next to your bed is much better than a 12ga shotgun that you haven’t touched in 10 years.

In ours though, we have birdshot in ours followed by buckshot and I think there is one slug in the saddle carrier.

So get something you will practice with no matter what it ends up being. Something you dont know how to use can end up being taken from you and doing more harm to you than good.
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Old 07-29-2013, 9:26 AM
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Limbsaver pad might help with the recoil too. I'd also suggest taking a HD shotgun course too. It might help you adjust to a 12 gauge.

My 1.5 cents worth....
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Old 07-29-2013, 9:43 AM
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Old 07-29-2013, 4:45 PM
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I know this is an older thread but wanted to "chime in" since our home situation has light frame to military size people. If you decide on a shotgun, be aware that Mossbergs and Remingtons (we have a Mossy) can be customized or purchased for the smaller frame person and a larger frame person usually finds the smaller firearm comfortable anyway. Most importantly, if you are getting something for home defense THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN SITUATION. You will hear lots of "you must..." or "all homes must..." For example, maybe you do or do not need a light attachment. Think about how/where the gun will be stored at the 3 most likely times you'd need access and how that affects the choice of gun, safe or holding device, and OTHER actions such as increased security (how to prevent, deter, or slow down for example) as possible attacker. Pre-thought and pre-planning are important. Start with the 3 likely scenarios and work back from there? Just my thoughts.

good advice!
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Old 07-29-2013, 5:40 PM
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The 12 ga semi auto's have less kick, because some of the recoil is absorbed by gun. As I understand it, part of the gas that is let off when you shoot is used to rack the next round. I was told this, I tried it and know it to be true.

Also, semi automatics depending on model, can hold maybe five rounds (there's a plug you can remove) where conventional shotguns can hold only on or two, and then you reload. If I were defending myself and my family, I vote for five chances to connect, not one or two....

I'm not certain that a 20 gauge would be a for-sure bad guy stopper. And that's the point, in home defense. I am sure a 12 ga with 00 buckshot would be. Especially with five rounds available.


I have a Remington 870 Police Magnum that holds 7+1 and it is pump action. I don't know what you mean by "conventional shotguns hold only one or two" as contrasted with semi-automatic shotguns. Also I believe Beretta makes the Xtrema shotgun, semi-automatic, which holds up to 12 shells [11+1] depending on the specific version, and it looks like a regular shotgun, it's not some AK style or revolving cylinder or drum magazine shotgun.



Also, if you cannot deal with somebody with 5 rounds of 20 gauge 00 buckshot, I don't suppose 5 rounds of 12 gauge 00 buckshot will change things. If you're in a situation where 20 gauge 00 buckshot is not stopping somebody, you need a centerfire rifle.
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Old 07-29-2013, 5:50 PM
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..................Also, if you cannot deal with somebody with 5 rounds of 20 gauge 00 buckshot, I don't suppose 5 rounds of 12 gauge 00 buckshot will change things. If you're in a situation where 20 gauge 00 buckshot is not stopping somebody, you need a centerfire rifle.

or a good pistol.........

I like this logic. tired of hearing a friend say I have to get a 12 gauge.
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Old 07-29-2013, 8:34 PM
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tired of hearing a friend say I have to get a 12 gauge.
You have to get a 12 gauge....
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Old 07-29-2013, 9:06 PM
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Old 07-29-2013, 9:51 PM
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Also, if you cannot deal with somebody with 5 rounds of 20 gauge 00 buckshot, I don't suppose 5 rounds of 12 gauge 00 buckshot will change things. If you're in a situation where 20 gauge 00 buckshot is not stopping somebody, you need a centerfire rifle.

While it is indeed possible to load 00 buck into a 2 3/4" or 3" 20 gauge shotgun shell with the proper components, it is not an efficient way to deliver maximum killing energy to the target for this gauge, and it just isn't worth the trouble. This is because 20 gauge has a bore of about .615", 00 Buckshot is about .33" in diameter, so they will not "stack" evenly into "tiers" in the shell and in a shot cup (and therefore don't pattern well), and you can't fit enough 00 into the shell to make for an effective load. Most factory 20 gauge buckshot shells are loaded with either #2 (about .27") or #3 buckshot (about .25").
What I find odd is that you can't find them in 20 ga. but you can find 000 buckshot .410 loads 3" with 5 pellets.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:28 PM
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While it is indeed possible to load 00 buck into a 2 3/4" or 3" 20 gauge shotgun shell with the proper components, it is not an efficient way to deliver maximum killing energy to the target for this gauge, and it just isn't worth the trouble. This is because 20 gauge has a bore of about .615", 00 Buckshot is about .33" in diameter, so they will not "stack" evenly into "tiers" in the shell and in a shot cup (and therefore don't pattern well), and you can't fit enough 00 into the shell to make for an effective load. Most factory 20 gauge buckshot shells are loaded with either #2 (about .27") or #3 buckshot (about .25").
What I find odd is that you can't find them in 20 ga. but you can find 000 buckshot .410 loads 3" with 5 pellets.

There have been several cases of individuals shot in the chest, having their heart blasted, and still continuing to offer meaningful resistance for 10-15 seconds.

There was a case where an individual was hit dead center in the heart by a .357 magnum and ran about 50 yards while firing at police, before he fell over dead.


Considerably better documented is the 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, people on both sides sustained major wounds that should probably have taken them out of the fight, especially the bad guys [especially Platt].


The absolute best source- W. French, M.D.: Forensic Analysis of the April 11, 1986, FBI Firefight.



Not even a round of 12 gauge 00 buckshot to the chest can be counted on to instantly stop somebody. Top medical experts [such as Dr. W. French] conclude that the only certain way to "instantly stop" a determined attacker is to hit them in the central nervous system of the brain or hit them in the upper spinal column.

A center mass hit from a round of 00 buckshot will probably stop 98% of assailants, but there's always that select few who just won't go down.


Keep in mind at the FBI Miami Shootout, both of the bad guys were ex-military, and Platt [the guy who took the most damage and who did the most damage] was a former Army Ranger. He sustained major injuries prior to his devastating assault that left two special agents dead and several seriously wounded. Despite having suffered a collapsed right lung [the bullet stopped just short of his heart], a nasty hit to his right brachial artery, and a hit that cut his right ulnar artery, he was able to continue fighting, advance on the FBI, and he went on to kill two and wound numerous agents.


I don't expect to encounter a Platt in the parking lot at the store or climbing through my window at 2:00 am, but my primary home defense weapon is a suppressed SBR AR-15 and when out and about I always carry multiple spare magazines [on my person] for my primary carry pistol, in addition to carrying a fully loaded back-up pistol, because I assume that whoever attacks me might be a Platt or they might be as capable as Platt but they might be on drugs or wearing body armor [neither Platt nor Mattix wore body armor and neither had any drugs or alcohol in their system, and each man was hit at least 6 times by solid shots.

Look at that woman in Georgia who recently had her home invaded. She retreated into the attic with her child, the man still pursued her. He burst through the door into the attic, she shot him 5 times in the face/head with a 38 special and he managed to run outside, still alive!

I assume that any assailant who attacks me, is capable of taking an entire pistol magazine without slowing down let alone being stopped. I would even assume that they are capable of taking a round of 00 buckshot [except to the head] and still continuing to attack.



In Miami in the 1986 shootout Mireles was not able to end the situation with his shotgun and even though he achieved solid hits on Platt's feet with 00 buckshot [check out the autoposy photos and the x-ray scans] Platt was not even knocked off his feet and Platt was able to continue walking, having suffered multiple wounds from 00 pellets to both of his feet. Ultimately Mireles put Platt down with a round of 38 special + P to the spinal cord. This is a guy who had lost about 1500 mL of blood, had lost the use of his right lung, had his right arm torn up, most of the bones in his right hand were trashed, and his feet were filled with buckshot pellets, and he was still walking and shooting.

If they had known that they were going to be in that sort of a fight that day, they probably would each have brought an M16 along on the rolling stake-out and left the shotguns behind.


I have a Remington 870 AOW shotgun with a 12.5 inch barrel [overall it is about 24 inches long], it can hold 4+1, it can handle 3" magnum, I have a Knox Tactical pistol grip on it that does a lot to balance out recoil through the internal spring system in the grip [you can actually shoot the thing one-handed], and a side saddle holder to carry an additional 6 shells, and a Surefire light [the sort that goes in place of the manufacturer's pump], I don't see a problem with keeping this around for home defense, but it isn't my first choice. A shotgun is going to be very loud and I don't know of an easy way to suppress the weapon. Keeping size to a minimum, I much prefer the suppressed SBR AR with 30 rounds available.

But I realize this is a CA board and most people won't have those options available, so a CA legal minimum length Remington 870 would probably be a decent choice, but I would also consider the M1 Carbine.

Especially if there is a woman who is concerned about her ability to handle the kick of a 12 gauge with 3" 00 buckshot, she might consider an M1 Carbine. There are excellent defense loadings available in 30 Carbine these days and the 30 Carbine round has about 3x the overall power/punch as the .45 ACP. The M1 Carbine is a very handy little rifle and with multiple rounds immediately available, it should get the job done.



Anyway-

Again- this book


http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm

Dr. Anderson's Ordering Instructions for Obtaining Forensic Analysis of the April 11, 1986, FBI Firefight

If an individual is a member of the FBI, he/she can get a copy from the FBI Academy in Quantico VA; if they are a member of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers (ASLET) or the International Wound Ballistics Association (IWBA), they can get a copy by contacting the main office of the organization. Any other law enforcement officer (of any type, in any country) can receive a copy (at least until the supply runs out; 23,000 have already been distributed) by sending a request on their department or company leaderhead together with a self-addressed stamped ($1.24, Book Rate) 10" x 12" envelope to me at:

W. French Anderson, M.D.
Norris Cancer Center, #612
USC School of Medicine
Los Angeles CA 90033

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