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  #1  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:09 PM
nbirnbaum2 nbirnbaum2 is offline
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Default WOW BLACKTHORNE RUDE AS HELL..... forgot to mention NFA rules

I already know vulcan/hesse/blackthorne is crap.
I wanted to make a video then use my amex to dispute and refuse the charge. Check out their response on my first set of questions.

I even said my intent was to build and SBR with a threaded barrel in CA and didnt want to pay the tax stamp. I was told it would be a nice setup.... Please stay away not only do they sell crap they will sell to stupid people and not tell them what they want is illegal. I hope ATF shuts down these jokers.

If the criminals ever found out about 80 percent lowers and jokers like this selling SBR kits with threaded barrels know illegal intent and supporting it anyway.... well that would be very bad

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What is the standard warranty length on your products? I also would like to inquire if I order a 10.5 ar15 kit can I get it with a threaded barrel for use in California.


Thanks Nathan



to me
Complete text of warranty is on the website. 10.25 barrels come threaded, per description



Please see our entire line of products at WWW.BLACKTHORNEPRODUCTS.COM
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:12 PM
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SBR's are not illegal for everyone in CA, just most of us. Complying with the NFA is your responsibility, not their's. I don't understand your issue with threaded barrels. The only law that has a problem with them is with detachable mag pistols. No problem on fixed mag pistols (which when I bought a marketed as "SBR" upper I used mine for) or if you have a CA issued permit to get an SBR.

You have to comply with the NFA but an upper is not a controlled part, nor is it a firearm in and of itself.

If that is the text of your e-mail at the bottom of your post, I don't see anything at all suspicious. That upper you mentioned WITH a threaded barrel is good to go for anyone in CA without any NFA or CA permits to do a nice pistol build. I also don't see any mention of an SBR in that e-mail.
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Last edited by stix213; 05-03-2013 at 12:18 PM..
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:19 PM
nbirnbaum2 nbirnbaum2 is offline
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I am aware of this..... just wanted to advise people against this CRAP brand that doesnt even mention NFA rules.. I have had friends call me and ask why they wont ship an ar to your house... then try to buy this crap not knowing a thing.
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  #4  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
I am aware of this..... just wanted to advise people against this CRAP brand that doesnt even mention NFA rules.. I have had friends call me and ask why they wont ship an ar to your house... then try to buy this crap not knowing a thing.
The last AR pistol upper I bought never mentioned NFA rules as far as I remember and even referred to it as an "SBR Upper," different company.
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:27 PM
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You cant legally make a pistol from an ar lower as they are all listed as a rifle on the paperwork. I checked... you have to buy an ar pistol listed as a pistol for DROS

I have even tried to ppt myself a lower to switch to pistol... no go... armorer wont touch it.. I am NOT a lawyer.. I dont give legal advice.

Last edited by nbirnbaum2; 05-03-2013 at 12:29 PM.. Reason: legal reasons
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  #6  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
You cant legally make a pistol from an ar lower as they are all listed as a rifle on the paperwork. I checked... you have to buy an ar pistol listed as a pistol for DROS

I have even tried to ppt myself a lower to switch to pistol... no go... armorer wont touch it..
I believe because once a rifle, always a rifle. If originally DROS'd as a rifle, it's a rifle, even if you never built it up as such
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  #7  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:31 PM
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While I would never buy their stuff, per your post, they don't sound as bad as you're making them to be.

You can buy a short-barreled upper at a number of places without the shop mentioning NFA laws.
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:32 PM
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Everyone who wishes to buy/build any type of govt controlled/regulated item, should first and foremost be aware of what the law is regarding such item. If you want to buy a parts kit for an upper that, if added to a lower would make it an illegal item, there are plenty of ways to find that out. Websites, and forums like calguns as an example. If you want to buy an entire rifle (SBR) the shop selling it needs to conform to the law, not ensure that you do (other than determination that you are not a prohibited person).

Yes it would be nice if they would inform people that in certain situations assembling some kits into an complete rifle, they could be breaking the law, but AFAIK there is no legal requirement to do so.

If push comes to shove, the DA will tell you that "ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it."

.02
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
You cant legally make a pistol from an ar lower as they are all listed as a rifle on the paperwork. I checked... you have to buy an ar pistol listed as a pistol for DROS

I have even tried to ppt myself a lower to switch to pistol... no go... armorer wont touch it.. I am NOT a lawyer.. I dont give legal advice.
Best way is to complete an 80% lower yourself in your garage like I did. That's the way most people in CA are getting AR pistols to my knowledge. I don't think buying complete AR pistols is all that common because it won't be built your way.
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  #10  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
You cant legally make a pistol from an ar lower as they are all listed as a rifle on the paperwork. I checked... you have to buy an ar pistol listed as a pistol for DROS

I have even tried to ppt myself a lower to switch to pistol... no go... armorer wont touch it.. I am NOT a lawyer.. I dont give legal advice.
who said you you had to buy the lower? just machine your own and you can make an AR-pistol.

even though I would not buy Blackthorne for other reasons, I don't see the problem with them selling a legal product to you. what you do with it once you get it is on you to make sure you comply with the law, and there are legal uses for that product in CA. hell, most people would be *****ing that XYZ company won't sell me a <16" upper in CA even though it is legal.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:39 PM
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OK, we know Blackthorne/Vulcan/Heese sucks. But why are you fishing for another reason to dislike them? Other than not needing any more reasons, you're making a big deal out of nothing. It's YOUR job to comply with NFA laws, not their job to make sure you're following the laws.

Might as well tell us you saw the owner kick a puppy or push an old lady into traffic.
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:45 PM
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i just dislike getting calls from my uneducated friends trying to buy this stuff..There are a lot of ar noobs right now......

I have some 80% lowers just in cast SHTF
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:49 PM
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Ok, if your friends don't want to listen to you the first time, let them buy a blackthorne product and learn their lesson.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2013, 1:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
... I wanted to make a video then use my amex to dispute and refuse the charge...
Are you bored or what? Why are you investing any of your time into doing this? Why are you wasting their time. No wonder vendors are sometimes hard to work with.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2013, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
i just dislike getting calls from my uneducated friends trying to buy this stuff
So educate them or get new friends. And NEVER expect a vendor to correctly tell you what the deal is with NFA, or any other law.
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2013, 2:17 PM
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Op, wants to buy a product with the intent of getting a chargeback? I don't know if that constitutes fraud, but I do know OP seems like an ahole.
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2013, 2:49 PM
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most pointless thread ever
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2013, 3:04 PM
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Did you get mad at the car dealer when they failed to tell you couldn't drive around with a dead hooker in your trunk?

Yeah, your post makes just about as much sense.
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2013, 3:28 PM
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What the?
It's the buyers responsibility to know what they are doing. NOT the vendor. They don't need to or (last I checked) are bound by any firm to inform the buyer of what he/she should already know. These aren't toys and if you have some "noob" friends getting into the AR hobby you need to be ripping THEM a new one and encouraging THEM to educate themselves on the plethora of laws pertaining to whatever weapon systems they are interested in. The implication that dealers need to babysit buyers is ridiculous, I thought we were all adults.
As far as refusing the charge, that's nothing more than fraud. If you bought and recieved a product and feel that secondary to the dealers refusing to coddle the buyers and have regular penal code study sessions then return for refund. Refusing the charge and keeping the item just shows an attempt to justify nothing more than weak moral turpitude.
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  #20  
Old 05-03-2013, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
i just dislike getting calls from my uneducated friends trying to buy this stuff..There are a lot of ar noobs right now......

I have some 80% lowers just in cast SHTF
Then tell them to not call you. Personally I encourage friends and coworkers to call me if they have a question that's firearm/legal related. If I don't have the answer I usually know where/whom to ask. That's kinda what friends are for? No?
Not to mention if you're so above them by being able to broad stroke them with the quasi deragotary term noob I think you would be happy to help..
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  #21  
Old 05-03-2013, 4:19 PM
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Wow, we're complaining about vendors refusing to ship stuff to California because they don't know the intricacies of our laws, yet we also bashing out of state vendors for not playing nanny and shipping stuff you that you think are questionably legal.
You want to be responsible for your own self or have someone else tell you what you can and can't have?
You cant have it both ways.
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  #22  
Old 05-03-2013, 4:21 PM
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Its not their job to teach you the NFA........it is your responsibility to know all the laws before you buy ANY firearm. You should be happy they are willing to sell AR parts to California. If you want someone to nanny you through the purchase and tell you every law shop somewhere else.
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  #23  
Old 05-03-2013, 4:47 PM
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Iv always been taught and told it is not THEIR job to tell you the laws, it is YOUR job to know them.

That being said it would be nice for someone to mention "hey man don't get caught with that hear" or an " I didn't hear you say that, don't build this into an SBR" kinda thing would be nice
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Old 05-03-2013, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
I already know vulcan/hesse/blackthorne is crap.
I wanted to make a video then use my amex to dispute and refuse the charge. Check out their response on my first set of questions.

I even said my intent was to build and SBR with a threaded barrel in CA and didnt want to pay the tax stamp. I was told it would be a nice setup.... Please stay away not only do they sell crap they will sell to stupid people and not tell them what they want is illegal. I hope ATF shuts down these jokers.

If the criminals ever found out about 80 percent lowers and jokers like this selling SBR kits with threaded barrels know illegal intent and supporting it anyway.... well that would be very bad

Warranty information/sales information
Inbox
x




to sales
What is the standard warranty length on your products? I also would like to inquire if I order a 10.5 ar15 kit can I get it with a threaded barrel for use in California.


Thanks Nathan



to me
Complete text of warranty is on the website. 10.25 barrels come threaded, per description



Please see our entire line of products at WWW.BLACKTHORNEPRODUCTS.COM
You, sir, are an idiot.

/thread
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  #25  
Old 05-03-2013, 9:57 PM
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Wut.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:49 PM
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You, sir, are an idiot.

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Old 05-04-2013, 12:38 AM
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You, sir, are an idiot.

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  #28  
Old 05-04-2013, 6:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
I already know vulcan/hesse/blackthorne is crap.
I wanted to make a video then use my amex to dispute and refuse the charge. Check out their response on my first set of questions.

I even said my intent was to build and SBR with a threaded barrel in CA and didnt want to pay the tax stamp. I was told it would be a nice setup.... Please stay away not only do they sell crap they will sell to stupid people and not tell them what they want is illegal. I hope ATF shuts down these jokers.

If the criminals ever found out about 80 percent lowers and jokers like this selling SBR kits with threaded barrels know illegal intent and supporting it anyway.... well that would be very bad
This thread is now in the running for most moronic post of the year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
I am aware of this..... just wanted to advise people against this CRAP brand that doesnt even mention NFA rules.. I have had friends call me and ask why they wont ship an ar to your house... then try to buy this crap not knowing a thing.
Your friends are too lazy or stupid to read the appropriate laws?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
You cant legally make a pistol from an ar lower as they are all listed as a rifle on the paperwork. I checked... you have to buy an ar pistol listed as a pistol for DROS

I have even tried to ppt myself a lower to switch to pistol... no go... armorer wont touch it.. I am NOT a lawyer.. I dont give legal advice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
i just dislike getting calls from my uneducated friends trying to buy this stuff..There are a lot of ar noobs right now......
Then don't answer the phone, maybe?
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  #29  
Old 05-04-2013, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
You cant legally make a pistol from an ar lower as they are all listed as a rifle on the paperwork. I checked... you have to buy an ar pistol listed as a pistol for DROS

I have even tried to ppt myself a lower to switch to pistol... no go... armorer wont touch it.. I am NOT a lawyer.. I dont give legal advice.
Good, and nobody should take your advice because you clearly don't have a complete understanding of the law.



Quote:
Originally Posted by crob View Post
I believe because once a rifle, always a rifle. If originally DROS'd as a rifle, it's a rifle, even if you never built it up as such
Depends on how the receiver was DROSed when transferred. If you bought it as a pistol then the Feds say you can go from pistol to rifle then back to pistol again. There hasn't been a test case in CA yet but that is defensible as hell with that federal ruling to back you up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
Everyone who wishes to buy/build any type of govt controlled/regulated item, should first and foremost be aware of what the law is regarding such item. If you want to buy a parts kit for an upper that, if added to a lower would make it an illegal item, there are plenty of ways to find that out. Websites, and forums like calguns as an example. If you want to buy an entire rifle (SBR) the shop selling it needs to conform to the law, not ensure that you do (other than determination that you are not a prohibited person).

Yes it would be nice if they would inform people that in certain situations assembling some kits into an complete rifle, they could be breaking the law, but AFAIK there is no legal requirement to do so.

If push comes to shove, the DA will tell you that "ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it."

.02
This is the reason why I tell anybody who wants to play with black rifles to study the law like their freedom depends in it...because it does.
If a person is too lazy to heed my advice, then they're an idiot and maybe the CGF might be able to help. Ignorance is bliss until your arse is locked up do to your ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbirnbaum2 View Post
i just dislike getting calls from my uneducated friends trying to buy this stuff..There are a lot of ar noobs right now......

I have some 80% lowers just in cast SHTF
Give a man a fish, or teach them. You should't bare the burden of your freinds laziness. Will you bail them out of jail and pay for their lawyer?
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  #30  
Old 05-04-2013, 5:38 PM
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Full retard.
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