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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #41  
Old 04-09-2013, 10:48 AM
Merc1138 Merc1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmedCMT View Post
riddle me this...Your PREBAN mag gets crushed by a horse so you rebuild it with a body marked "LE ONLY" yet its still PREBAN.
Answer: It doesn't matter since the CA penal code has no provision specifying possession or use of "pre" or "post" ban magazines, thus using language referring to expired federal legislation is pointless.
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  #42  
Old 04-09-2013, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Losd619 View Post
Can you legally acquire the mag in another state and bring it over state lines? Or only if it was legally acquired in cali?
Anyone have an answer to this question? Is purchasing a 25rd rimfire mag out of state for personal use and bringing it home to CA considered "importing"?

And if this is illegal importing, and one then "blocked" the mag to 10 rds for CA use, does this then make it legal?

Last edited by Coffeeking; 04-09-2013 at 8:37 PM..
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  #43  
Old 04-09-2013, 9:09 PM
Just_some_guy Just_some_guy is offline
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Originally Posted by letsgosteelers View Post
As it applies specifically to M&P 15-22 mags, since you can't mfg, import, give or lend, how do you receive a lrg capacity mag ie. 25rd that you can use or own in the great state of Kalifornia?

What if I found one? Just minding my own business and saw it in a trash can. It is not illegal to possess the magazine or use it. It would not keep you from being arrested for having such and charged for the above, but the state would have to prove you manufactured or imported it. (give or lend is the act of providing to another).

But if you found a completely assembled one on a sidewalk, it would be yours to use and keep. You just couldn't sell, give, or lend it to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffeeking View Post
Anyone have an answer to this question? Is purchasing a 25rd rimfire mag out of state for personal use and bringing it home to CA considered "importing"?

And if this is illegal importing, and one then "blocked" the mag to 10 rds for CA use, does this then make it legal?
Yes, if you travelled and brought a magazine with more than 10 round capacity back, that would be importing, even for your own use. Permanently altering the magazine to restrict it 10 rounds is legal at this point. Permanent is the key. Epoxy and rivets have so far, seemed to have met that definition.

I think though, all of this is tempting fate. Like I said, it won't prevent you getting arrested for it, and your first conviction at the hands of a local jury might happen, even if it is later overturned on appeal. Those of us with something to lose are probably best advised to simply not have anything on us that might serve as the basis of the test case. It can take a decade to get your conviction overturned at the high court level.

Last edited by Just_some_guy; 04-09-2013 at 9:15 PM..
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  #44  
Old 04-09-2013, 10:44 PM
adarak adarak is offline
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Been trying to get an answer on the whole "finding" situation but it seems that finding and keeping isn't a violation based on the PC?
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  #45  
Old 04-09-2013, 11:03 PM
Merc1138 Merc1138 is offline
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Originally Posted by adarak View Post
Been trying to get an answer on the whole "finding" situation but it seems that finding and keeping isn't a violation based on the PC?
For large capacity magazines? No, it is not a violation of the PC.

For finding property it could be an issue and you should look up the PC for that.

Now good luck actually finding magazines just laying about.

That section of the PC is loaded with all sorts of weird stuff. Steal $250 worth of crops? Grand theft. Steal a dog worth $949? Petty theft. Steal a dog worth $950? Grand theft dog.

Last edited by Merc1138; 04-09-2013 at 11:11 PM..
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  #46  
Old 04-10-2013, 12:04 AM
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Not quite, my friend's roommate left a handful of mags behind after moving out of the country. I told him they can't be used but now it seems I'm wrong.

They are however the Mossberg 25 round mags which weren't even invented until after 2010 but you guys are also stating that age has no bearing.

I should direct him to the forum. :/
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  #47  
Old 04-10-2013, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adarak View Post
Not quite, my friend's roommate left a handful of mags behind after moving out of the country. I told him they can't be used but now it seems I'm wrong.

They are however the Mossberg 25 round mags which weren't even invented until after 2010 but you guys are also stating that age has no bearing.

I should direct him to the forum. :/
If the state can show that your friend's roommate imported those magazines into CA, he's got himself a bit of a problem if he ever comes back.

You can't use "oh, I just found it" as some magic excuse with a wink and a nod. If that were the case then we'd be paying people to catapult magazines over the border into CA from NV to "find"(that might even have other problems besides the magazine laws).
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  #48  
Old 04-10-2013, 4:36 AM
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I can drop a few out of my plane if you pay me for fuel
The turbulence is bad up here in Tahoe.

Since this thread is hijacked, I have three questions:
1. If I build a "tubular" magazine that hangs down from the gun, am I legal? I don't see where tubular describes how the ammo feeds into the gun. See where I am going? .223 is still 22 caliber. I have two designs that I should photoshop.

2. Since when is bringing a mag into cali considered importing? Those of us that live a couple of miles from the border "import" gas, booze, cigarettes, cars, etc all the time. To me import means import from out of the country, as in AK magazines.

Last edited by TahoeTim; 04-10-2013 at 4:39 AM..
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  #49  
Old 04-10-2013, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
If the state can show that your friend's roommate imported those magazines into CA, he's got himself a bit of a problem if he ever comes back.

You can't use "oh, I just found it" as some magic excuse with a wink and a nod. If that were the case then we'd be paying people to catapult magazines over the border into CA from NV to "find"(that might even have other problems besides the magazine laws).
Makes sense, but if possession isn't forbidden then why and how would the state begin to even investigate if he is caught using them? The roommate is long gone now and won't be returning.
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  #50  
Old 04-10-2013, 1:21 PM
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Originally Posted by adarak View Post
Makes sense, but if possession isn't forbidden then why and how would the state begin to even investigate if he is caught using them? The roommate is long gone now and won't be returning.
Could be any reason they decide to start doing it, as far as being able to prove what happened, people have a habit of failing to keep their mouths shut.

That being said, it doesn't mean he'd necessarily get to keep them either as there is some odd language about large capacity magazines being a nuisance, that would allow them to be confiscated.
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  #51  
Old 04-10-2013, 2:41 PM
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My head hurts reading through this thread. I gather from this that I can use the Mitchell 50 round drum magazine I bought 20 years ago in my newly acquired 10/22 Takedown rifle legally. I also have some Ramline 30 and 25 rounders of the same vintage. It seems to me that it is not worth the hassle running into an LEO that is unclear on the laws regarding the use of legally owned high capacity magazines owned prior to 2000 for use in a new gun. Don't they just lock you up and say to let the court sort it out? I don't think it's worth the hassle.
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  #52  
Old 04-10-2013, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rrengineer View Post
My head hurts reading through this thread. I gather from this that I can use the Mitchell 50 round drum magazine I bought 20 years ago in my newly acquired 10/22 Takedown rifle legally. I also have some Ramline 30 and 25 rounders of the same vintage. It seems to me that it is not worth the hassle running into an LEO that is unclear on the laws regarding the use of legally owned high capacity magazines owned prior to 2000 for use in a new gun. Don't they just lock you up and say to let the court sort it out? I don't think it's worth the hassle.
Yup, perfectly legal.

As far as the cops locking you up and letting the court sort it out, they can do that for anything.
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  #53  
Old 04-10-2013, 5:05 PM
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Also, wasn't the SOL for this 3 years? Technically, after 3 years there would be no concern?
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  #54  
Old 04-10-2013, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by adarak View Post
Also, wasn't the SOL for this 3 years? Technically, after 3 years there would be no concern?
There's the concern of getting caught, and if you were even considering breaking the law, discussing doing so isn't acceptable on calguns. If you wanna take a gamble of ending up with this guy...
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  #55  
Old 04-10-2013, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by adarak View Post
Been trying to get an answer on the whole "finding" situation but it seems that finding and keeping isn't a violation based on the PC?
Penal Code 485 , http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...file=484-502.9

With the price of Pmags now it becomes felony for 4 or more ( because the felony comes into play at the value of $400 )
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Last edited by Capt.Dunsel; 04-10-2013 at 5:51 PM.. Reason: added link for merc1138 and Sgt.Merc
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  #56  
Old 04-10-2013, 6:00 PM
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The thread is not hijacked at all, rather we've settled on-topic concerning the only evil feature of the .22 rifle not allowed, and we are deconstructiing why this is. I find it fascinating reading between the legal lines. Tahoe Tim's idea of a "tubular" AR mag is intriguing, I can visualize a horizontal mortar launching diameter tube, instead acting as a magazine. As well, there seems to be no restrictions on tube fed .22 ammo amounts, so why not put a long/wide *** 50 rd tube on there? This is just spin-off concept ideas. I agree the reality is that LEOs are not as up to splitting hairs as we are on large cap mags and thus the likelihood of spending time with the individual above makes testing the limits totally not worthwhile.
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  #57  
Old 04-10-2013, 6:14 PM
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Pertaining to Military,
it is very difficult to transfer weapons to California in the military.
Even if it is legal for us to own California (Illegal) firearms. You have to get your CO (Commanding Officer) to sign off on it and submit documentation to the Armory where your weapons will be stored. Then submit a written signed approval for you to get your weapons out of the Armory.
You will be held accountable if anything and I mean anything were to happen.
It is such a pain that most of my buddies just sell their firearms from home and buy new ones when they get to California.

(Usually we can get away with many things with a Active Duty Military ID because the rules don't really apply to us, though technically they kinda do Its a feel good thing. I go shoot a California Legal weapon and then the next day I am shooting a M240 or 249 Saw. Maybe doing some training out in the field.)
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  #58  
Old 04-10-2013, 6:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Dunsel View Post
Penal Code 485 , http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...file=484-502.9

With the price of Pmags now it becomes felony for 4 or more ( because the felony comes into play at the value of $400 )
If you can't reasonably tell who's Pmags you found, then there's no misappropriation of lost property.

Find 4 Pmags on Elm and Oak on the sidewalk. You look around and see no one, no one is looking for them. You put an ad in the paper, "found some personal property on the sidewalk at Oak and Elm. Please contact to describe the property and date of loss and I will return it to you."

Then I'd say, you covered it pretty well.

On the other hand, I feel nervous even about "rebuild kits." Even an eventual acquittal in a higher court is a lot of suffering that I don't want any part of.
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  #59  
Old 04-10-2013, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_some_guy View Post
If you can't reasonably tell who's Pmags you found, then there's no misappropriation of lost property.

Find 4 Pmags on Elm and Oak on the sidewalk. You look around and see no one, no one is looking for them. You put an ad in the paper, "found some personal property on the sidewalk at Oak and Elm. Please contact to describe the property and date of loss and I will return it to you."

Then I'd say, you covered it pretty well.

On the other hand, I feel nervous even about "rebuild kits." Even an eventual acquittal in a higher court is a lot of suffering that I don't want any part of.
Your covered ( keep a copy of the add just in case) You actually think 4 pmags gonna sit there for more than a minute?

But , we all know some LEO's don't know the law as some here do. They can give you a hard time , really hard time and take them. Prosecutor pushes for what ever he can , your Lawyer plea bargins down to not having proof you tried to find " original" owner adds a felony charge to mess with you.


Your cost just went up , remember; most folks when confronted by Johnny Law get confused and the minute you stammer , your hiding something so it must be you did something illegal. Just a reminder to all of us , Lawyer up , Shut up , and good luck.

In this day and age we gotta watchout , they are doing everything they can think of" for the children".
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  #60  
Old 07-01-2013, 6:27 AM
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Just read this and got a little worried... but as long as the laws are 'held up' I'd be good.

I bought mine from some guy at the swap meet that had them mixed in with a bunch of airsoft stuff about a year ago.

Can't recall what he looked like...
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  #61  
Old 07-01-2013, 6:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0150r View Post
To my understanding, military members on Permanent Change of Station (PCS) orders are exempt from being considered an importer of firearms. That's what allows service members to bring their personally owned firearms (baring any outlawed features, etc). If that is true, could they "import" BX-25's from out of state and keep them for personal use?

I don't plan on doing this, just trying to figure out the mess if the California system. I walked into a sporting goods store this week in Wisconsin and walked out with a new Savage Mk II thirty minutes later, so all these restrictions are confusing.
Hello Felony, how about you ask a mod to delete this thread since its a violation of federal law to purchase a firearm in another state even when on military orders.
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  #62  
Old 07-01-2013, 6:56 AM
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Oh and if Merc hasn't already explained to Capt. Dunsel, In California there is no such thing as pre or post ban magazines.

A magazine is 100% legal if manufactured yesterday.
A magazine is 100% illegal if manufactured yesterday.
A magazine is 100% legal if manufactured 25 years ago.
A magazine is 100% illegal if manufactured 25 years ago.


If you haven't figured the law out yet, I will explain. The law RESTRICTS actions. It doesn't ban any thing.

Last edited by CWDraco; 07-01-2013 at 6:59 AM..
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  #63  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
You can use 50 round capacity magazines with rimfire rifles in CA, there is no law preventing that. Getting a magazine with a capacity over 10 rounds is a different issue.

CA's AW laws do not apply to rimfire rifles. All you have to do is meet federal barrel length(16"), and CA OAL(26" from it's shortest fireable configuration).

The ranger complaining about the SKS and 870 was indeed an idiot.
This is a 10/22 Tactical-specific question: If the barrel is threaded (as on the 10/22 Tactical), between what two points is the "measurement" taken to arrive at the 16" minimum length?

A) Is it from the very end of muzzle brake to the "front" of the receiver?

B) Is it from the very beginning of the threads on the muzzle end of the barrel (where the brake screws onto) to the front of the receiver?

C) Is it from the very end of the threads on the muzzle end (where the brake mates up to the non-threaded part of the barrel) to the front of the receiver?

D) Is it "A" to the breechface?

E) Is it "B" to the breechface?

F) Is it "C" to the breechface?

Since a bullet exits through the threaded part of a barrel that is "shrouded" by a brake, I'm going to assume that the threaded portion of a barrel at the muzzle end is still part of "the barrel", albeit modified for a brake/suppressor/flash-hider/etc.

I think a definitive clarification of how/where the barrel of a firearm is measured per DOJ specs would help folks in California (and elsewhere) if/when they shop for folding/collapsible stocks to modify their 10/22s...and are able to discharge a round in its folded/collapsed configuration while adhering to the legal minimum of 26" in an operational configuration.
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Last edited by coverme2; 07-01-2013 at 1:03 PM..
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  #64  
Old 07-02-2013, 6:46 AM
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Does anyone out there know the correct answer to this?
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  #65  
Old 07-02-2013, 7:22 AM
Merc1138 Merc1138 is offline
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It's the same as how the feds measure it. End of the barrel to the breechface, only including permanently attached portions that meet their definition of permanently attached.
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  #66  
Old 07-02-2013, 10:30 AM
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Considering 22lr caliber is high on the list for semi-auto weapon used in homicide.

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  #67  
Old 07-05-2013, 5:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Dunsel View Post
Are you absolutly sure ? I have a fire arm magazine( rebuild kit) that has a date on it that says its pre-ban date , also says " For Law Enforcement Only ". It is a standard capacity magazine for a Double Stack 45 ACP.

With the magazine ban the company started putting the date on them as well as the other aforementioned info.

I also have a few Magazine Rebuild kits for a 10/22 that have a date stamped ( actually molded into) on them.

If there are no preban magazines in CA how come they come with a date that makes them "post-ban""?
At this point, none of that matters. I personally have needed to change mag-bodies due to rusting of several of my old style non-coated Sig mags, and feed lip issues on other mags. Importing, building, etc... that's what is illegal.. not use, not possession.
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