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  #1  
Old 03-17-2013, 1:01 PM
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Default Adding a PPT to a Longgun purchase DROS 10-day wait.

My situation:
- I purchased a shotgun which I can pick up in 2 days.
- I did a PPT for a rifle 3 days later which I can pick up in 5 days.

Questions:
- Would I have been able to add the PPT to my current shotgun DROS?
- Can I still somehow add it so I can pick up both in 2 days?


Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2013, 4:13 PM
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Not likely since they are processed differently in the DROS software.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-2013, 4:20 PM
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You should not have done second dros if at same ffl you got hosed. No guns go on 4473 until day of pickup you can add guns on that day. They can only charge $10 per additional longun.
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2013, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
You should not have done second dros if at same ffl you got hosed. No guns go on 4473 until day of pickup you can add guns on that day. They can only charge $10 per additional longun.
Yeah it's at the same FFL.

I know that if you did a PPT DROS, you cannot add a purchase to that DROS (I've tried).

So I was wondering if you can do it the other way around: Adding a PPT to a purchase DROS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halifax View Post
Not likely since they are processed differently in the DROS software.
I hope you're correct so that I didn't get "hosed."
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Old 03-17-2013, 4:51 PM
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Yes you can add longuns to ppt dros I just did it at Oaktree. They did not charge the $10 fee. And yes you should not have done a second dros. Should have added it to 4473 and paid $10. When I do dros at Oaktree they ask me if I am going to add any guns to it this just happened.
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  #6  
Old 03-17-2013, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Yes you can add longuns to ppt dros I just did it at Oaktree. They did not charge the $10 fee. And yes you should not have done a second dros. Should have added it to 4473 and paid $10. When I do dros at Oaktree they ask me if I am going to add any guns to it this just happened.
Interesting. Reed's in Santa Clara did not let me add a Benelli M4 (which I was purchasing that day) to my PPT DROS (Colt 6920). They instead made me open up a new DROS and wait an additional 10 days.

Last edited by jwh; 03-17-2013 at 5:07 PM..
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Old 03-17-2013, 5:07 PM
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This might be a new thing. Best to get clarification from doj. Feds don't care.
I know that I added longuns before signing 4473 and picking up .
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  #8  
Old 03-18-2013, 8:43 AM
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This is entirely going to depend on the dealer and how they want to run it.

Personally, I would have allowed you to add the PPT to the current DROS and probably would have only charged you $10 even though it is no longer a PPT.

For right now, the only benefit to running a PPT is the fixed $35 rate and the theory that if you get denied, the gun can go straight back to the seller. However, that only benefits the purchaser and not the dealer.

What I would do to benefit me is treat it like a transfer. There is no requirement I run it as a PPT, I can run it as a transfer and just log it into my book no different than a PPT, but pretending like it was mailed in or just brought it. I don't have to deal with the seller's ID or signature. I just add it to your long gun DROS.

Now kemasa will be along shortly to remind us he doesn't believe you can add long guns onto an existing DROS. So there is that to take into consideration.
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2013, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
This might be a new thing. Best to get clarification from doj. Feds don't care.
I know that I added longuns before signing 4473 and picking up .
I wish it still worked that way. Or I wish it worked that way everywhere.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
This is entirely going to depend on the dealer and how they want to run it.

Personally, I would have allowed you to add the PPT to the current DROS and probably would have only charged you $10 even though it is no longer a PPT.

For right now, the only benefit to running a PPT is the fixed $35 rate and the theory that if you get denied, the gun can go straight back to the seller. However, that only benefits the purchaser and not the dealer.

What I would do to benefit me is treat it like a transfer. There is no requirement I run it as a PPT, I can run it as a transfer and just log it into my book no different than a PPT, but pretending like it was mailed in or just brought it. I don't have to deal with the seller's ID or signature. I just add it to your long gun DROS.

Now kemasa will be along shortly to remind us he doesn't believe you can add long guns onto an existing DROS. So there is that to take into consideration.
Alright, thank you. I will just wait the additional 3 days to pick up my rifle. I will try to ask if I can add a PPT to a purchase DROS next time at Reed's.
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  #10  
Old 03-18-2013, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh View Post
Alright, thank you. I will just wait the additional 3 days to pick up my rifle. I will try to ask if I can add a PPT to a purchase DROS next time at Reed's.
Yeah if you already started it, then the $25 is gone and so I as a gun dealer would let you cancel and add it on, but I would still keep your $35 for my time and costs.
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  #11  
Old 03-18-2013, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
You should not have done second dros if at same ffl you got hosed.
False.

Quote:
No guns go on 4473 until day of pickup you can add guns on that day.
False.

Quote:
They can only charge $10 per additional longun.
False.

Three strikes and you are out.

The CA PC says that it is for any number of non-handguns which are part of a single sale, loan or transfer. An additional firearm done at another point in time is multiple, not single. While some FFLs will add it and it is unlikely to get caught, it does not make it legal and if the CA DOJ suddenly starts pushing the issue based on the number of firearm listed, as well as the statement that everything is accurate under penalty of perjury, those FFLs could have some issues. There are multiple CA PC sections which come into play. In addition to the DROS submission with the definition of what a firearm transaction is (different than the Feds), there is also the CA PC regarding the waiting period, which often seems to get ignored with respect to adding firearms. The whole concept of adding firearms is an admission that it is not "single".

I am not sure of why you think that the firearms being transferred are only put on the 4473 when the person is picking them up, but 11a. references those firearms, which is at the start. While the Feds allow for additional firearms to be added until the 4473 is signed, the CA DOJ does not have the same view.

Non-PPTs are not fee limited, so it is ONLY for PPTs in which there is a limit of $10. Also, if the PPT long gun were added and the buyer had a problem, the seller could not get the firearm back unless another DROS was submitted. If a PPT DROS is submitted, the seller gets the firearm back asap.
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Last edited by kemasa; 03-18-2013 at 2:30 PM..
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2013, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
The CA PC says that it is for any number of non-handguns which are part of a single sale, loan or transfer. An additional firearm done at another point in time is multiple, not single. While some FFLs will add it and it is unlikely to get caught, it does not make it legal and if the CA DOJ suddenly starts pushing the issue based on the number of firearm listed, as well as the statement that everything is accurate under penalty of perjury, those FFLs could have some issues.

I am not sure of why you think that the firearms being transferred are only put on the 4473 when the person is picking them up, but 11a. references those firearms, which is at the start. While the Feds allow for additional firearms to be added until the 4473 is signed, the CA DOJ does not have the same view.

Non-PPTs are not fee limited, so it is ONLY for PPTs in which there is a limit of $10. Also, if the PPT long gun were added and the buyer had a problem, the seller could not get the firearm back unless another DROS was submitted. If a PPT DROS is submitted, the seller gets the firearm back asap.
Thank you for the clarification.
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