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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 02-21-2013, 7:03 PM
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Sakiri Sakiri is offline
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Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
California is Union Blue with some help from liberals in places like San Francisco, Santa Cruz, and parts of LA. Try visiting a "blue" city like Sacramento and you'll find people are pretty conservative socially in their views compared to San Francisco. Many probably disagree with the Democrats view on gun control. However the same republicans who are pro-gun are also anti-union and want to take away union worker retirement, benefits, and pay... Therefore although they may WANT to vote GOP they're going to vote for the Democrat and put their family first.
I don't think we should have labor unions.

We shouldn't need them. The only thing they serve to do is make it a pain in the rear to fire that moron that's been there for 20 years but is getting sloppy and stopped caring. Tenure > performance. See: Teachers unions.

I'm all for retirement benefits and worker protections, but blackballing people into keeping someone in a position they're no longer fulfilling properly has got to go.

Oh yeah, and if you get rid of the unions, they can't back the progressives anymore.

I know more than a few people that are members of unions, not by choice either, and are pissed off to high hell that their dues are being used to line the pockets of Democrats.
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  #42  
Old 02-21-2013, 7:11 PM
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Those of us who are not single issue voters simply won't do that. If you're conservative but you're pro-choice, are you going to vote against the anti-choice conservative candidate? Only if that's the only issue you care about.

Of course, this is calguns - single issue voter central.
You just nailed why I didn't vote for Romney.

All the woman hating.

Look, the whole abortion bit? That's between the woman and God. You don't like it? Tough. Not your position to judge.

Thats my take on it.

Besides. These are the same people that would let a woman with a complication die before aborting that pregnancy. Don't think it'll happen?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2128696.html

"The debate over legalizing abortion in Ireland flared Wednesday after the government confirmed that a woman in the midst of a miscarriage was refused an abortion and died in an Irish hospital after suffering from blood poisoning."

They refused to perform the abortion because there was a fetal heartbeat. Despite being in the middle of losing the pregnancy. And dying.

Yeah.

That case infuriated me. Especially since there's ridiculous people here that feel there's never a good case for abortion. Romney among them.

And no, I didn't vote for Obama either.
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  #43  
Old 02-22-2013, 12:07 AM
vincewarde vincewarde is offline
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Default Perhaps Vermont may be instructive

It's a very liberal state with a very strong gun culture and constitutional carry. What kind of pro-gun candidates are winning there?

As much as I would love California to be a lot more conservative, that is not going to happen. If we want to win in the political arena on gun rights, we need to run pro-gun rights progressives.

The sad thing about our nation is that it is becoming increasingly divided and the two sides are drawing further and further apart. We have not been this divided since the civil war.......
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  #44  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:11 AM
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Assuming you've already donated to the usual suspects, took your anti-2A friends to the range, here are few other high-impact activities:

First and foremost, vote in general elections. If you're concerned that being registered to vote might (oh the horror!) mean you have to be called up for jury duty, remember that they are already using driver's license information to this end.

Second, vote in primary elections. California's primaries are open: you don't have to be a member of a party to vote in their primaries. If there is a pro-2A democrat is running, contribute to their campaign (to the extent permitted by campaign finance laws), and vote to nominate them.

If a socially liberal republican is running, likewise vote to nominate them, even if they're not any better (in regards to the second amendment) than the democrats -- the point here would be to change California's perception of republican party as that of staunch social conservatives (when that's really not the case -- it is a fairly big tent) so that they're more likely to back pro-2A republicans as well.

Realize that people's political philosophies ("meta-politics", essentially -- not really the positions people hold, but the way they arrive at them) differ -- and know which arguments to use with which group. When writing letters -- especially to politicians on the fence -- unless the issue is clear cut constitutionally (e.g., a ban on semi-auto handguns, a 7 round magazine capacity limit, probably SB347), try to argue on the basics of policy as opposed to on constitutional grounds.

Here's what I would personally say -- "it is not clear whether passing SB47 will save any lives: magazine locks still make it difficult to quickly swap the magazine, no magazine locked AR has been used in a murder so far, it's already illegal to have a high capacity magazine with a fixed-magazine firearm. On the other hand, the ban imposes a burden on 3-gun competition shooters, varmint hunters, and countless other owners of what happens to already been one of the most popular civilian owned rifles in California. Finally, it is also likely that many firearm owners will remain unaware of rules related to registering this weapon, leading to needless suits, arrests, and other enforcement costs which could have used towards that could actually save more lives".

Become involved in your community (this is something I'd like to do more), but don't be "that gun guy/gal". Don't remain ignorant issues other than those that personally effect you. Be well read on history, ethics (*), and political philosophy. If someone proclaims "well wouldn't second amendment mean we can all have machine guns", instead of defending the idea of everyone owning machine guns (**), talk about how strong free-speech rights doesn't mean people can libel each other or make terroristic threats at will. Acknowledge that some restrictions are permissible, but mention that they should begin with a presumption of liberty: when advancing a restriction, be sure that the restriction is actually effective in its goals, while imposing the least possible burden on individuals whose rights are infringed (a layman's version of "strict scrutiny" I suppose).

Finally, stay here -- don't move away: at worst, there is plenty of time before the bills (if passed into law!) take effect, and property values in California will only keep rising further (ahead of other states): if you absolutely can't stand it, it will be more advantageous to leave in March 2014 than in March 2013.

* Understand the difference between arguing on the basis of utilitarianism (e.g., "guns reduce crime, so we should own them") and on an imperative/rights basis ("we should have a right to protect ourselves"). Avoid mixing the two together as it just muddles the discussion. Kant's Groundwork of the Metaphysic of Morals is very good introduction into what is probably common sense imperative/rights ethics.

** Personally I'm in favour of removing the FOPA amendment -- but that is far removed from any of my current concerns and I've little interest in talking about the NFA
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:52 AM
vantec08 vantec08 is offline
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Think of CA's legislators tampering with the 2nd as brush fires: get a handle on evil black guns, get a hose on cosmetics and attachments, ooops got another fire starting over here about ammo, uh oh - get on the long gun registry, got another lightning strike here about "too many guns and ammo." Until citizens wise up that criminals dont obey their soft-fuzzy laws, aint nuthin means nuthin.
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:31 AM
SilverTauron SilverTauron is offline
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Originally Posted by vincewarde View Post
It's a very liberal state with a very strong gun culture and constitutional carry. What kind of pro-gun candidates are winning there?

As much as I would love California to be a lot more conservative, that is not going to happen. If we want to win in the political arena on gun rights, we need to run pro-gun rights progressives.

The sad thing about our nation is that it is becoming increasingly divided and the two sides are drawing further and further apart. We have not been this divided since the civil war.......
There's a cruicial cultural difference. In Vermont, firearms are a cultural norm.

In California its the exact opposite. The average Joe in VT loves firearms no matter what their political affiliation. Can't say the same about the average LA voter.
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  #47  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
There's a cruicial cultural difference. In Vermont, firearms are a cultural norm.

In California its the exact opposite. The average Joe in VT loves firearms no matter what their political affiliation. Can't say the same about the average LA voter.
It was not always thus. I grew up in a very different and gun friendly CA in the 1950's. Immigration changed everything. And not just, or even mostly, Mexican immigration.
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  #48  
Old 02-23-2013, 4:57 AM
LuvLRBs LuvLRBs is offline
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It is a different Ca and I started another thread about the racial gun control divides. I think for us old timers, we lived our lives with good guys in the neighborhood with guns that protected us. I think in some of the other cultures that make up the majority here now, that's not the case. They can't relate to the idea that a person with a gun can be anything but the aggressor.
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  #49  
Old 02-23-2013, 7:10 AM
CDFingers CDFingers is offline
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Take a liberal to the range for a fun shoot. That's the best thing gun owners can do.

CDFingers
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