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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-04-2013, 5:39 PM
kkj54993 kkj54993 is offline
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Default Zastava PAP M92 Pistol Converting to Rifle

I apologize if this has been discussed already but I think I am more confused now than when I first started researching the possibilities.

From what I understand if I add a 6 inch barrel/fake suppressor by blind pinning and welding it to the 10 inch barrel making it a 16 inch barrel I can then add a stock to it and have an overall length of the gun be 30 or more inches it would be legal in California without having to file NFA paperwork and or worry about it being illegal?

This gun is registered as a pistol off the one shot exempt roster.

Specifications and Features:
7.62x39mm
10" barrel
One Shot Exemption Initially for sale 10 Round Max Magazine After purchase
Stamped receiver
Hinged top cover
Krinkov rear sight
Muzzle cover lightly welded over 26x1.5 LH threads
Wood handguards
5.69 lbs
19.75" overall

I am planning on permanently pinning/welding the Investment Grade Firearms IGF Yugo M92 Krinkov Fake Suppressor Threaded 26 x 1.5 LH (Picture Attached) with the Rear Adapter and Skeleton Stock for Yugo PAP M92 form USMachineGun.com (Picture Attached).

I just want to do this right and keep it legal in California. Please advice me.
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2013, 5:41 PM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
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That's gonna be one ugly rifle but pin/welding a six inch can is t much different than AR-15 XM-177 clones with the welded 5.5 inch brake.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2013, 5:44 PM
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No...sorry. If you add a stock to a registered handgun it becomes a "AOW"...any other weapon and you have to pay the NFA tax stamp. The handgun is designed to be fired with one hand and when you add a stock then it's not a handgun. The "Muzzle cover" could also possibly be construed as a barrel shroud making it a SBR as well. This is my understanding...but...I could definitely be wrong....
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Last edited by K_SNIPER; 01-04-2013 at 5:52 PM..
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2013, 7:51 PM
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  • It is possible, but I don't understand WHY.

    Go get a real carbine and save yourself grief. [Plus see my bbl length commentary below.]

    [I note the commentary above about XM177 carbines. These to me are in the "WTF?" category given you
    have ~5" of useless pipe on the front end of the bbl. The slip-over fake XM177 FHs are a better option:
    there's real barrel under the fake FH and thus much better carbine muzzle velocity vs. "pistol velocity".
    That ~5" extra of bbl is indeed worth something.]

    Also, I'm unclear on some of the mechanicals as far as mounting a buttstock on rear or how much 'surgery'
    on your pistol is required: I'll only address the legal issues here and others can speak up on the mechanicals.
    .
  • You can make a pistol into a rifle, WITH CARE. STAY LEGAL BY OBSERVING SEQUENCES BELOW.

    However due to CA SBR laws that must be skirted with wide berth, do NOT convert back to a pistol EVER again.
    [This is despite recent BATF memo about pistol->rifle->pistol conversion legality relevant to the other 40-some
    states.]
    .
  • FIRST, replace the barrel (??difficult) - or extend the barrel with a *permanently* attached extension.

    [I am assuming you have/will keep the BulletButton installed.]

    [From a pure shooting standpoint, a ~10" bbl with a welded-on bbl extension to achieve legal bbl length will suck
    ballistically - poor muzzle velocity etc. To me, this would be a deal-breaker.]
    .
  • ONLY AFTER THE bbl is legally modded to 16" legal minimum (remember Fed 26" min overall gun length) should
    you even acquire a buttstock, if you own no other guns that buttstock could legally be fitted to - otherwise
    there is "constructive possession of SBR" risk.
    .
  • You need to have a minimum overall length (OAL) of 30" for a semiauto centerfire rifle to avoid AW issues in CA.

    This means WHEN YOU ADD THE STOCK ON IT MUST IMMEDIATELY REACH 30" min. overall length - and not have
    something else that has to be added on later - or you will be transitioning thru an illegal Calif AW state to get there.
    Make SURE the total length of the stock and the bbl extension reach min. 30" before assembly.

    If anyone starts asking you questions about your assembly sequence, procedure, etc. S.T.F.U. and do not dig
    yourself into a legal hole by opening your yap.

    If the attached stock is a folder (side-, under-, collapsible) stock it must either be pinned open first, or the rifle must
    be at 30" min. overall length when the stock is folded so you can avoid "Rooney" matters. California overall length on
    rifles w/folder stocks is measured with the stock CLOSED [Elsewhere, the more generous Fed/BATF measurement
    standard allows rifle's [26" Fed, not 30" CA] minimum length to be measured with the stock open, allowing for a shorter
    folded-up rifle outside CA.]
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Last edited by bwiese; 01-04-2013 at 8:09 PM..
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2013, 8:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_SNIPER View Post
No...sorry. If you add a stock to a registered handgun it becomes a "AOW"...
WRONG. It becomes an SBR (short bbl rifle). By contrast, AOWs include pistols with forward grips.

And the OP said he was lengthening the bbl to 16".

Quote:
any other weapon and you have to pay the NFA tax stamp. The handgun is designed to be fired with one hand and when you add a stock then it's not a handgun. The "Muzzle cover" could also possibly be construed as a barrel shroud making it a SBR as well. This is my understanding...but...I could definitely be wrong....
Yes you are. You're all over the place and don't understand things.

'Barrel shroud' matters don't enter if they're really part of the bbl, and furthermore only affect CA AW SB23 laws - and these are overridden by (1) BulletButton, and (2) it's gonna be a rifle when configured.
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2013, 8:06 PM
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I understand why the op wants to do it because I want to do it myself. It's the only way to get a Yugoslavian M92 "Krinkov" built on a real Zastava receiver and it would cost far less than other Krinks out there.

Check out Matt at http://www.mygunsnorthwest.com/ He's done this before for forum members on Romanian Dracos. He used to post here but I've not seen him in a while.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2013, 8:32 PM
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So where did he say he was going to use a bullet button bwiese...? None the less as usual bwiese's info is correct. I did mean to type SBR not AOW but what's the difference really these days in CA.

Meeting all of bwiese's guidelines if it has a pistol grip it will either have to have a permanently attached mag or a bullet button....correct bwiese?
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Last edited by K_SNIPER; 01-04-2013 at 8:39 PM..
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2013, 9:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_SNIPER View Post
So where did he say he was going to use a bullet button bwiese...?
The gun was purchased legally in CA as a single-shot pistol. Part of that would have been having a BulletButton or other tool-requiring mag lock.

I would also assume he didn't remove it so as to not have an illegal pistol AW, even though he would prob be using 10rd magazines and not running it as a single -shot pistol after pickup from FFL.

Quote:
I did mean to type SBR not AOW but what's the difference really these days in CA.
Big difference.

There is no such category as AOW under CA law (however there is some relation to *Federally* NFA AOW'd non-shoulderable guns that shoot shotgun shells and thus are exempt from CA SBS laws.)

CA SBR law is also entirely separate from Fed NFA SBR law. While general situations are similar, one can be compliant / nonviolating in the latter and yet still be in trouble under the former.

Quote:
if it has a pistol grip it will either have to have a permanently attached mag or a bullet button....correct bwiese?
A semiauto centerfire pistol needs a BulletButton or perm 10rd or less mag if it has a magwell ahead of the grip (as in this case), a threaded bbl, and/or shroud/heat shield etc.

A semiauto centerfire rifle needs a BulletButton or perm 10rd or less mag if it has a pistol grip, folder stock, etc.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:06 PM
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Good info...Thanks!
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:06 PM
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Good info...Thanks!
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Old 01-05-2013, 6:22 AM
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Another thing to consider...
When you make the imported semi-auto pistol into a semi-auto rifle, you will need to comply with the non-foreign parts requirements in accordance with Federal laws [18 USC 922(r)].
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:56 AM
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Hi Guys, thanks for the quick responses, I just want to clear a few things up. When I purchased the gun it definitively came with the bullet button and yes I will be leaving it on.

The answers are very similar to what I have been researching, some people are saying its illegal and some are saying its not...

The overall gun length is 19.75 stock. When I add the 6 inch barell extender the barrel would become 16" in length total and now the gun will be 25.75 inches long. Then I will be adding the fixed stock on it which is 8.5 inches long bringing the overall gun to 34.25 inches. I am not using a underfolder, or anything like that. You can see the stock on the picture I attached.

Finally, I believe the gun is manufactured in serbia at the Zastava factory and imported by Century Arms.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkj54993 View Post
Finally, I believe the gun is manufactured in serbia at the Zastava factory and imported by Century Arms.
In order to comply with Federal laws, when it is made into a semi-auto rifle, it will need 10 or fewer foreign (non-USA) made parts.

AK type rifles have 16 parts, so a minimum of 6 of those parts need to be made in the USA.

During conversion to a rifle, you will need to replace the foreign parts with USA made parts.
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Old 02-23-2013, 5:58 AM
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So after reading this thread, the same would apply to my Swiss Arms SG 553 P right? A guy could in theory build it into a rifle correct? However, never go back down to a pistol once you do unless you have an SBR stamp which you won't get in CA.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=330474273
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