Proof of residency BEFORE pickup??

[mbaran]

After waiting almost an hour on a busy Saturday I was told at the Reseda location that I would be required to show proof of residency before I could start DROS on a handgun.

I asked the salesman why, and he informed me that that was the law. I asked him since when, as I've purchased many hand guns with out my residency until pickup. He told me I was wrong and he had never heard of that before.

I walked out and they missed out on a sale, and all of my future business. I went to Oak Tree and purchased the same gun for $10 more because I felt they always live up to my expectations with gun purchases. They informed me how residency is not required until pickup, as I had experienced plenty of times before. One of the employees of Oak Tree was a former Turners employee who said it was a store decision. I can't imagine how a store decision becomes law, but it cost them a sale and I probably won't return.

[ke6guj]

here's what the law says;


27540. No dealer, whether or not acting pursuant to Chapter 5
(commencing with Section 28050), shall deliver a firearm to a person,
as follows:
(a) Within 10 days of the application to purchase, or, after
notice by the department pursuant to Section 28220, within 10 days of
the submission to the department of any correction to the
application, or within 10 days of the submission to the department of
any fee required pursuant to Section 28225, whichever is later.
(b) Unless unloaded and securely wrapped or unloaded and in a
locked container.
(c) Unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the
firearm presents clear evidence of the person's identity and age to
the dealer.
(d) Whenever the dealer is notified by the Department of Justice
that the person is prohibited by state or federal law from
possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(e) No handgun shall be delivered unless the purchaser,
transferee, or person being loaned the handgun presents a handgun
safety certificate to the dealer.
(f) No handgun shall be delivered whenever the dealer is notified
by the Department of Justice that within the preceding 30-day period
the purchaser has made another application to purchase a handgun and
that the previous application to purchase involved none of the
entities specified in subdivision (b) of Section 27535.


so, you are correct that PoR must be provided before you can pickup. It doesn't say that they can't submit your application to purchase unless you have PoR. That said, I have seen many dealers that want to see PoR before they start a DROS, since their could be drama at pickup time if the buyer doesn't show up with acceptable PoR. Since I always have at least one piece of PoR with me at all times, I don't really care if they want PoR at DROS time or can wait until pickup.

[gunnlover]

They don't need your business or attitude. Someone else will buy it. Obviously if you had bought a gun there before you would know the policy.

[gunnlover]

That was my non-frosted side. My frosted side says WTF is wrong with Turners.

[vintagedude88]

What's so hard about showing your proof of residence? You're gonna have to do it anyways. If you don't have it the time of purchase, just put down a deposit and then go back with your POR to pay off the balance and start DROS.

[mbaran]

Originally Posted by gunnlover

They don't need your business or attitude. Someone else will buy it. Obviously if you had bought a gun there before you would know the policy.

What's so hard about showing your proof of residence? You're gonna have to do it anyways. If you don't have it the time of purchase, just put down a deposit and then go back with your POR to pay off the balance and start DROS.

Because I've bought 3 other hand guns from them, at other locations and have never needed to do so. I was in the area, decided to stop in. Didn't have it with me. Waited the full time and was denied, and called a liar.

I know quite certainly that I bought my other handguns from them without showing my POR until pickup. It's the ambiguousness of rules between locations. Never been an issue @ Pasadena or the new location in Ventura.

[ham]

Originally Posted by gunnlover

if you had bought a gun there before you would know the policy.

i blame the salesguy for not getting your p.o.r. when he started your packet, to avoid issues like this..

[vintagearms]

Before or after. God, people piss and moan about the strangest, most petty things...

[NSR500]

[1st2fight]

Rseda is the worst Turners store to purchase a handgun. Since they are subjected to Fed, CA and LA city laws, they are more paranoid when it comes to paperwork and often mis-interpret what's required by law.

People will get upset when their time is wasted by these "experts"...

[Bada Bing]

Most FFLs will take a CA car registration for a POR. It has always worked for me.

[Bobbar]

To everyone who says why make a big deal out of it/go on a forum where turner allows feedback... its probably cuz the OP doesnt like being called a liar!

[Trickracen]

Why not just walk out to your car and get your . Done deal

[ptroxx]

I agree with the others, why not just show POR.. if you drove there it would be on your registration.. Either way you would have to show it..

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Trickracen

Why not just walk out to your car and get your . Done deal

Originally Posted by ptroxx

I agree with the others, why not just show POR.. if you drove there it would be on your registration.. Either way you would have to show it..

because not everybody's registration is acceptable as PoR. it could be registered to a family member or could be a company car. It could have a PO box listed instead of the physical residence, etc.

[Ed_Hazard]

Originally Posted by mbaran

After waiting almost an hour on a busy Saturday I was told at the Reseda location that I would be required to show proof of residency before I could start DROS on a handgun.

I asked the salesman why, and he informed me that that was the law. I asked him since when, as I've purchased many hand guns with out my residency until pickup. He told me I was wrong and he had never heard of that before.

I walked out and they missed out on a sale, and all of my future business. I went to Oak Tree and purchased the same gun for $10 more because I felt they always live up to my expectations with gun purchases. They informed me how residency is not required until pickup, as I had experienced plenty of times before. One of the employees of Oak Tree was a former Turners employee who said it was a store decision. I can't imagine how a store decision becomes law, but it cost them a sale and I probably won't return.

Attachment 185066

[darksands]

West Covina Turners doesn't require PoR to submit a handgun DROS. That's where I normally purchase my firearms.

[Simo Häyhä]

I was not expecting the kind of dumb responses given to this poster. Fact is he knew the law and was called a liar. Fact 2 is that impulse buys are a good thing and that's what he was doing. as a result of the sales persons/managers inability to know and work with the law they instead made there own. Good for him spending his money else ware that is the only thing that matters.

[dre147]

I have bought several times from turners and a few ppts and half the time i brought in the p o r when i went to pick up, at turners and fountain valley within the past year. I dont really expect them to allow this but it was cool that they did.

[SemperFlexibus]

Reseda is in a unique position where it can create its own policies, and people still buy from them because most people don't know the laws unlike some others.

They are not alone thought. Big 5 has a policy where the 10 days wait starts on next day, not on the day when DROS is submitted.

When was the last time someone walks out of any Turners with a firearm and less than 3 pieces of paper?

[Josh3239]

Originally Posted by Simo Häyhä

as a result of the sales persons/managers inability to know and work with the law they instead made there own.

Store/company policy isn't "making there own laws", it is policy and every business has its own policy. That is freedom and it is f*****g beautiful. Obviously you have never worked in the gun business, if the amount of people who walk in to buy guns at Turners who lack the CDL/ID, PoR or the HSC or all is any indication of the amount of people who would not bring their POR on pick up day, even after being told, then there would be a lot more whining. Considering all the 4473s I've processed I can estimate that over 50% of CGN cannot fill out a 4473 properly without me jumping in and reminding them that the box says county not country, or no abbreviating, or to answer both the ethnicity and race box, or don't answer question 12, or don't do the parts after your signature and date because it is for me, etc.

[kayaker55]

I bought my 1911 last Memorial Day at Oak tree. When I provided all three, he said, "Good. We won't have any issues when you pick up." I wish I had a box of ammo for every time I've seen someone not able to pick up because of an issue with that third piece of paper.

[neomentat]

Originally Posted by mbaran

After waiting almost an hour on a busy Saturday I was told at the Reseda location that I would be required to show proof of residency before I could start DROS on a handgun.

I asked the salesman why, and he informed me that that was the law. I asked him since when, as I've purchased many hand guns with out my residency until pickup. He told me I was wrong and he had never heard of that before.

I walked out and they missed out on a sale, and all of my future business. I went to Oak Tree and purchased the same gun for $10 more because I felt they always live up to my expectations with gun purchases. They informed me how residency is not required until pickup, as I had experienced plenty of times before. One of the employees of Oak Tree was a former Turners employee who said it was a store decision. I can't imagine how a store decision becomes law, but it cost them a sale and I probably won't return.

Turners employees are notorious for preaching all sorts of "Store Policies" as the "Law". And when you challenge them on the "Law" they get their panties in a bunch. I have no problem respecting any store policy, but don't try to tell me that it's the LAW when in fact that it is not.

I'm not about to take legal advice from uneducated fools, all they need to do is to drop their ego and uniformly say "it's a store policy" and that would end this frequent problem of theirs.

[CharlesV]

This is so simple, why all the postings? If i go shopping and expect to buy or not, i take everything with me for POR because i dont know (or care!) anyones policy, im just ready for whatever they want. POR now? Fine. POR later? Fine. Who gives a damn? Be ready at all times, thats all. I have a file containing all records, receipts and current POR and that goes with me. Whats so hard here?

This is what im coming to dislike so much about Calguns, there are 50 people and 51 opinions. If we dont quickly get on the side of a strong, cohesive and unified voice you know what? We're gonna die. Cmon people, straighten up!

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by CharlesV

This is so simple, why all the postings? If i go shopping and expect to buy or not, i take everything with me for POR because i dont know (or care!) anyones policy, im just ready for whatever they want. POR now? Fine. POR later? Fine. Who gives a damn? Be ready at all times, thats all. I have a file containing all records, receipts and current POR and that goes with me. Whats so hard here?

so, do you have your file with you 24/7? Many of us are out and about without the intent to "go shopping" but will stop in at a gunshop on a whim.

[brptrailrider]

Originally Posted by darksands

West Covina Turners doesn't require PoR to submit a handgun DROS. That's where I normally purchase my firearms.

Correct, but WC does require it in advance on PPT. My car was at the mechanic and I had a loaner so the car registration wouldn't work for my PPT. I walked across the parking lot to Kinkos and printed my utility bill and they accepted it. Luckily, the manager informed of us of the requirement upon check in so it didn't waste any time. I've had good experiences 9 out of 10 times at Pasadena and West Covina. Long wait... but I'm patient.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by brptrailrider

Correct, but WC does require it in advance on PPT..

that does make sense.

If you buy from Turners and never bring in PoR, they just refund you minus the restocking fee, but if it is a PPT and you don't bring PoR in on pickup, They then have to deal with getting the gun back to the seller. And I'd assume that most PPTs are planned and you know that you are going to the gunshop before had, so you should have thought about PoR, whereas many times I just stop in at a gunshop on a whim.

[bigbully]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. They ARE required to obtain proof of residency, but they don't normally ask for it that way. They ask for your driver's license. If it's not CA license they they ask for additional proof. If it has a change of address sticker they ask for additional proof. If it has CA address on it they ask is the address correct. "Yes it is" then nothing further needed.

Every gun you've ever purchased was done by providing proof of residency although you never knew it until they worded it that way.

[ke6guj]

dude, just about everything in your post is incorrect. If you don't know the law, don't post.

Originally Posted by bigbully

I don't see what all the fuss is about. They ARE required to obtain proof of residency, but they don't normally ask for it that way. They ask for your driver's license. If it's not CA license they they ask for additional proof.

"If it's not a CA license" Are you refering to an out-of-state license, or a CA ID. If you have an out-of-state license, you aren't, as a non-FFL, buying a firearm from a CA dealer.

If it has a change of address sticker they ask for additional proof. If it has CA address on it they ask is the address correct. "Yes it is" then nothing further needed.

if you are buying a handgun in CA, it doesn't matter what your DL says on it. It isn't acceptable to CADOJ as PoR, no matter what address you DL has on it.


Now, if your DL doesn't have your current address on it, Federal law requires you to have a .gov-issued document with your name and current address on it for Proof of Identity, which is completely different than CA's PoR requirements.

Every gun you've ever purchased was done by providing proof of residency although you never knew it until they worded it that way.

really, pretty sure that CA's PoR requirement didn't go into effect until 2003. I've bought plenty of handguns from dealers before that date and didn't have to provide PoR, and even today when buying a rifle, I don't have to provide PoR.

[bigbully]

Well said.... points taken and I concede my invalid points based on misinterpretations.

I even read your earlier post citing the law and still thought I was interpreting correctly. If I thought I didn't know the law I wouldn't have posted. Just goes to show that there are many of us who think we know the laws, but clearly don't. I commend the way you've corrected me and educated me without being inappropriate where as some may come down with the iron hammer when it was an honest mistake.

[fredridge]

I did a dros today somewhere else. wanted PoR upfront also made me demonstrate I had a working knowledge of the gun.

saw them do that with the guy before me, thought he was picking up, but was just buying too.

good store , no hassles seems like the way they handle it.

[hkuspcomp]

So one store requires POR up front and another doesn't. What's the big deal? Their store their rules. Are there any laws broken or is it because your having to go back an extra time is an inconvenience to YOU for walking in the store unprepared? Did you ever consider the inconvenience to them having to spend time again with you because you were unprepared where as they could be spending said time selling to somebody else?

Why does everybody think that their every whim is to be indulged just because they're spending money in an establishment. First, they're not forcing you to part with your money. Second, and most importantly, you're not giving away money for nothing. You ARE getting something in return. That something will eventually be sold. Whether it is to you or somebody else would be of no consequence to an establishment whose product is in high demand. So if you don't end up getting the item, just think about how that somebody else is enjoying that which you can't because of your ATTITUDE and ask yourself... How's your cash going for you?

Oh and by the way, I guess it wasn't much of an inconvenience after all as you still had to visit a gun store 1 extra time to get the same product... First to Turner's Reseda to purchase the gun (which you ended up not doing). Second to Oak Tree where you did end up buying the firearm. And third to Oak Tree again to finally pick up the gun you bought. Sort of a penny-wise pound-foolish story if you asked me.

And all to tell them that they've lost one small fish in a lake overflowing with possibly bigger ones... hmmmmm

[myk]

Originally Posted by Josh3239

Considering all the 4473s I've processed I can estimate that over 50% of CGN cannot fill out a 4473 properly without me jumping in and reminding them that the box says county not country, or no abbreviating, or to answer both the ethnicity and race box, or don't answer question 12, or don't do the parts after your signature and date because it is for me, etc.

Lol, guilty as charged.

And.........I'm actually dismayed that a lot of you have Turner's stores where the employees have all of these bad attitudes and s**t on you guys all the time. Turner's in Kearny Mesa has been nothing but professional and very forgiving to this 'noob, and I'm hardly a high roller there or anything like that; I hope you guys complained to their corporate office at least...

[vargas00]

Department of Justice and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobbacoo and Firearms states that you need all the proper documentation at time of DROS. If you get audited, meaning DOJ or ATF agents go through your paper work and you do not have the proper documentation the store could lose their FFL licenses. You should know as a gun buyer what documentation you need and therefore it is not their fault it is yours. Stop trying to blame your incompetence on someone else.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by vargas00

Department of Justice and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobbacoo and Firearms states that you need all the proper documentation at time of DROS. If you get audited, meaning DOJ or ATF agents go through your paper work and you do not have the proper documentation the store could lose their FFL licenses. You should know as a gun buyer what documentation you need and therefore it is not their fault it is yours. Stop trying to blame your incompetence on someone else.

there are two sets of laws in play here, federal and CA.

Where does CA law say that you must have PoR at the beginning of DROS?


To me, it does appear that there is a timeline difference between not being able to deliver a firearm and not being able to submit an application for that firearm.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Josh3239

Store/company policy isn't "making there own laws", it is policy and every business has its own policy. That is freedom and it is f*****g beautiful. Obviously you have never worked in the gun business, if the amount of people who walk in to buy guns at Turners who lack the CDL/ID, PoR or the HSC or all is any indication of the amount of people who would not bring their POR on pick up day, even after being told, then there would be a lot more whining. Considering all the 4473s I've processed I can estimate that over 50% of CGN cannot fill out a 4473 properly without me jumping in and reminding them that the box says county not country, or no abbreviating, or to answer both the ethnicity and race box, or don't answer question 12, or don't do the parts after your signature and date because it is for me, etc.

While I hate Turner's policies and the attitudes of many of their employees (Josh is a noted exception), I have to side with Josh here. It's not up to aa customer to dictate a store's policy. If you don't like it, don't shop there. Hell, if you really feel the need to prove your point, open YOUR OWN GUN SHOP down the street from them and do it YOUR WAY. If you do, expect others to complain about YOUR WAY though.