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Old 10-22-2010, 2:53 PM
RipVanWinkle RipVanWinkle is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Posts: 266
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Originally Posted by lairdb View Post
Probably not (pending examination by a 5th expert) -- you are voluntarily making these statements, not being forced to testify. The fact that a truthful answer may result in denial of the permit is not relevant to the 5th, but it is a different question: can you be legally denied a permit for the reason specified in question 3? If you cannot be denied a permit for that reason, then the question is improper, and should be struck.
The Investigator's Interview Note #3 is:

"3. Are you now, or have you ever been, addicted to a controlled substance or alcohol, or have you ever utilized an illegal controlled substance, or have you ever reported to a detoxification or drug treatment program? No_____Yes_____ (If yes, explain):"

I couldn't find anywhere on this form where it specifies that answering "Yes" to any of these things would necessarily result in denial of a permit. I suppose just about anything could be used to evaluate "moral character", good or otherwise.

One thing it does do is provide the interviewer an opportunity to check the applicant's background in the event of a "No" answer. If the Investigator subsequently finds that the applicant had been in, say, a drug treatment program, that would be grounds not only for immediate denial of permit, but for arrest for a felony (from page 8 of the application):

"Penal Code Section 12051 Applications for CCW Licenses; False Statements
(b) Any person who files an application required by subdivision (a) knowing that statements contained therein
are false is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who knowingly makes a false statement on the application regarding any of the following shall be
guilty of a felony:
(1) The denial or revocation of a license, or the denial of an amendment to a license, issued pursuant to
Section 12050.
(2) A criminal conviction.
(3) A finding of not guilty by reason of insanity.
(4) The use of a controlled substance.
(5) A dishonorable discharge from military service.
(6) A commitment to a mental institution.
(7) A renunciation of United States citizenship."

All of the questions in the Investigator's Interview Notes section go well beyond the elements that would disqualify a person from gun ownership. I particularly like #4:

"4. Have you ever been involved in an incident involving firearms?
No_____Yes_____ (If yes, explain):"

What's that supposed to mean? Or how about #2?:

"2. Have you ever been in a mental institution, treated for mental illness, or been found not-guilty by reason of insanity ? No_____Yes_____ (If yes, explain):"

Well, that clause between the commas covers a lot of ground. #6 is interesting as well:

"6. List any arrests or formal charges, with or without disposition, for any criminal
offenses with the U.S. or any other country (civilian or military)."

"with or without disposition"??? Again, the ambiguous clause cleverly sandwiched in the middle. Who writes this stuff?

Finally, my favorite, from the Applicant Clearance Questions:

"10. Have you witheld any fact that might affect the decision to approve this license?"

Anything you say can and will be held against you.
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