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-   -   Please weigh in on my choices before I purchase my first handgun (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=851804)

Mutenri 11-14-2013 1:35 AM

Please weigh in on my choices before I purchase my first handgun
 
In about three weeks I'll be walking into doors of a gun shop and picking out my first handgun. I've shot for various pistols for three years and own several long guns, but never yet a pistol. I'm the kind of guy who does meticulous research about his hobbies and I've spent some time shopping around. I was hoping you guys could point me towards the right direction and answer a few questions I have.

I have narrowed my choices down to the CZ 75 B, Beretta 92FS, or on the off chance I find one in the right price zone, Browning Hi Power or SIG P226, based on the following criteria I made up:

1. 9mm. I've shot with major calibers from .22LR to .44 Magnum, and this is the one I like the most.
2. Full size. I'm not carrying this gun anytime soon, and the compact Glock I shot was slightly too small for my liking.
3. Metal frame. I know most everyone recommends a Glock for a first gun, but I like the feeling of steel in my hands far better.
4. ~$750 or less. I've saved up but I'm still poor.
5. Durable, reliable and easy to maintain. I like shooting guns, holding guns, but not cleaning guns or sending them to the gunsmith.

Which of the guns (or perhaps one that I've never thought of) should I choose? Where in Southern California (Los Angeles, but willing to travel) should I go to find a FFL with it in stock? The 92FS seems to be readily available, but I can't seem to find a CZ anywhere.

bsg 11-14-2013 3:39 AM

i believe you'll get much more feedback and discussion if you start your thread in the regular 'California handguns' section. you're in the California handguns section, but posted in the 'Handguns Gallery' which is it's subsection where members post pictures of their handguns.

Gramps29 11-14-2013 6:32 AM

He didn't do enough research on where he was posting. :)

Mutenri 11-14-2013 7:54 AM

Oops, I'm an idiot.

Canucky 11-14-2013 8:13 AM

Mutenri I recommend you rent some of the models your interested in. Everybody is different(hand size/eye sight) What is the purpose of said pistol? Home defence? Target shooting? ect. Which ever you choose, learn the basic field of arms for the gun. Lub and field strip. Good luck with your first pistol purchase.

Mutenri 11-14-2013 8:15 AM

Mainly target shooting, but if it does come to a home defense situation I'd rather use the pistol than not. I've tried the 92FS and liked it, but the range I went to doesn't have a CZ for me to rent.

bigred1 11-14-2013 8:25 AM

I have shot the M9 extensively and some experience with the 226. I don't know how the 92FS compares with the M9 though; I really don't think there is a difference though. My only gripe about every Sig I've ever shot is that the double action trigger is way way to heavy.

The 92 will go bang every time, ergonomics are good but not great. The hogue grips I put on my service pistol helped a lot. They seem to be really pricey brand new though and I'm not sure why.

As far as steel vs polymer; your going to clean them both the same. How dirty your weapon can be and still run, depends on your individual weapon.

Try to find and handle them all, don't settle for something because it's there.

QuarterBoreGunner 11-14-2013 8:37 AM

Moving... please fasten your forum seatbelts.

ODub 11-14-2013 8:43 AM

I really like the Beretta and I've owned one for a decade, but I would choose the CZ if I could find one. The ergonomics are insanely good for me and it's accurate as hell. OC Indoor Firing Range has an SP-01 Tactical for rent. You should have seen my face when I fired it for the first time.

Grabagun.com has the CZ 75-BD in stock and you could send it to a shop for SSE. OC Armory in Laguna Hills can do it, if it's worth a drive for you. If you're thinking about a using it for a home defense role, thought, you might go with a model with a rail for a light.

I don't have any experience with the Sig, but I love the looks of the 226 Scorpion.

I hope this information helps. Good luck with your search.

Cool Custard 11-14-2013 8:43 AM

Good old Cz 75b will treat you right! Look in the marketplace here.

tbc 11-14-2013 8:43 AM

Metal frame full size pistols for $750 you can only get CZ 75 SP-01, CZ 75B, and Beretta new. For used pistols (you should search the Marketplace) you have more options: Sig P226, RIA 1911 9mm, Browning Hi-Power.

If you include polymer pistols:
New: XD 5.25 in, Glock 17, Glock 34, M&P full size, Sig SP2022,
Used: HK USP full size.

Furncliff 11-14-2013 8:48 AM

The CZ 75b was my first center fire handgun also. I was looking for a used 1911 and stumbled upon the CZ. I knew absolutely nothing about them except it felt right in my hand. I have a bunch of 9mm pistols now, and the CZ continues to be my favorite 9mm for a lot of reasons. I also have the Kadet conversion for it.

iTrack 11-14-2013 8:51 AM

You can't go wrong with either choices. I'm partial to CZ because of their ergonomics, reliability, and maintenance factor. They're a little hard to find but with some added effort you can get them.

SLO1911Fan 11-14-2013 8:51 AM

http://www.tombstonetactical.com/cat...in-16rd-black/

http://www.tombstonetactical.com/cat...in-14rd-black/

If you're willing to drive a short distance I can recommend a shop in Orange County to SSE the Omega for you. That's my recommendation. It has the full size frame, beavertail, and extended controls.

Ziggy91 11-14-2013 8:54 AM

- CZ 75B: Before the Sprngfield 1911 target (9mm) model, this is the most accurate handgun I've ever shot. I started a thread just because of my experience after renting one a few years ago. HOWEVER, good luck finding one. I don't know of a store in the Bay Area that has one on the shelf, and CG members want a "rare" premium for it since CZ is behind on production. Maybe they're more common down south.
This one is on my future list to own... once the production reaches a normal level and the price drops.

- Beretta 92FS: Great gun. Cheap price with great accuracy and ergonomics on these too. Beretta has been making guns for hundreds of years, so they've been doing something right. I will own one of these one day also... but maybe an A1 model with the rail because I'm super cool. :cool:

- Browning Hi-Power: No experience, but my understanding is that they have a similar design to the 1911 and CZ. Both speak for themselves.

- Sig P226: I hate Sigs. I was recommended one over a Beretta and Glock a few years ago at the range. To me, it handled horribly so everything else was terrible for me. On the other hand, I loved shooting Glocks, Berettas, and other guns that were said to be "inferior" compared to the "almighty" Sig. I respect a weapon that serves many Federal agencies and many LEOs, but it's not for me.

Your best bet is renting each. Spending the $20-$50 to see if you like a gun is a lot better than the $500-$1000 mistake you make when you get somehting that you don't.

whipkiller 11-14-2013 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbc (Post 12763782)
Metal frame full size pistols for $750 you can only get CZ 75 SP-01, CZ 75B, and Beretta new. For used pistols (you should search the Marketplace) you have more options: Sig P226, RIA 1911 9mm, Browning Hi-Power.

If you include polymer pistols:
New: XD 5.25 in, Glock 17, Glock 34, M&P full size, Sig SP2022,
Used: HK USP full size.

I don't think I would need to look any further than that. My SP-01 is the favorite of everything I've ever owned or shot.

There's a thread going right now about SP-01's in stock (Damascus, I think)

Mutenri 11-14-2013 9:45 AM

Could you please link to that thread?

Also, thanks mod, for righting my stupidity.

EDIT: Nevermind. I found the thread. Now to pray that it stays in stock for three weeks and to find an FFL that won't take my mother and my dog for the transfer.

AK all day 11-14-2013 9:48 AM

I would seriously consider looking into CZ. They make a good metal framed gun for a good price.

He-Hate-Me 11-14-2013 9:57 AM

I'm a Beretta owner (M9a1) and absolutely love my gun. It's reliable, accurate, has good ergonomics (except for the slide mounted safety), has low felt recoil and is fun to shoot. In addition, it's a breeze to field strip and clean. It also fits into your posted budget ($750 or less).

CZs are pretty rare so I have no experience with them. Sigs are awesome handguns as well, although a new p226 will run you closer to $1,000. I think you'll probably be happy with any of these choices.

mafbloggerdanny 11-14-2013 10:00 AM

for a first gun, did you consider a 1911? I noticed it was not one of the guns on your list but many manufacturers offer a 1911 in 9mm that would fit your other criteria, and with the availability of variety of parts out there I think 1911s make a great first gun. Unless perhaps there was some other reason you didn't include 1911 pattern guns in your considerations?

Lead Waster 11-14-2013 10:06 AM

OP, you did some research but can't find a 75b, which is my suggestion, but I think you should still hold one before you buy it.

My first 9mm (and second handgun, after my Glock 21) was a 75B SA. Wow, it fits my hand so well! I slapped on a hogue wraparound grip and it's like it was made for me. Others also comment on it as the "comfy gun" which it is. It's trigger had some grit, but the CZ competition hammer fixed that. It is amazing.

I also own an SP-01, but it's been tuned such that it will only ignite Federal primers (it's a USPSA tuned gun and is more gun than I can take advantage of, but it is crazy accurate, as is the 75b SA). Seriously, when I'm holding the SP-01, I have no doubts about whether or not I'll hit the target. Both CZ are great, though again, I like the comfy gun a touch better due to comfy-ness and it's ability to shoot anything I feed it (instead of just my handloads with fed primers).

However, I'm planning to buy a Glock 17 as well. Why? Well during one USPSA match, I had to decock the SP-01 manually (at the start of every stage) and I was tired and the hammer slipped while I was "making ready" and got DQ'ed when the gun ND'ed down range (yes, it was pointed in a safe direction as I decocked it of course). Normally you wouldn't decock it (it has a safety) but for USPSA you have to. So I wanted to start the next season of USPSA with a no-brainer G17 so I can focus on shooting skills with a less than heavenly trigger, like on the SP-01 and not worry as much as I do when I decock that stupid thing. Also, in case I take a pistol class or something, I'd like to use a striker gun in 9mm. Just so I can focus on other things than control manipulation the first time out.

Sorry for the ramblings.

I think either gun will serve you well. Try both, but I think that even if you just got the 75b without trying it, you'd love it. Be wary that the CZ's slide is very short (vertically speaking) and some people don't like that.

whipkiller 11-14-2013 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutenri (Post 12764258)
Could you please link to that thread?

Also, thanks mod, for righting my stupidity.

EDIT: Nevermind. I found the thread. Now to pray that it stays in stock for three weeks and to find an FFL that won't take my mother and my dog for the transfer.

I don't see that happening, but they have been popping up in stock more lately than they were 6-12 months ago.

Watch kygunco.com too, seems like they've been getting them in semi-regularly.

The 75B is probably fine, but for a few bucks more I think the SP-01 is worth it if you can find one. Night sights, upswept beavertail...

The natural intuitive pointability of the SP-01 sometimes makes me wonder how well I could shoot blindfolded at a noisemaking target say 7 yards away. :o

It would be a fun experiment if it could be done safely. I'm pretty sure it'd probably be on paper and maybe inside a silouhette, and I'm pretty sure if I tried it with a Glock it would be in the ground 3 feet in front of the target.

(Simmer down Glock guys, I'm just talking about how Glock ergonomics naturally "point" for me personally)

Mutenri 11-14-2013 10:30 AM

Wow the speed and quantity of these replies. I love this community.

Quote:

for a first gun, did you consider a 1911?
I've heard that they require significant tuning and gunsmithing to get right, and gunsmith visits are like dentist appointments to me.

Quote:

I think either gun will serve you well. Try both, but I think that even if you just got the 75b without trying it, you'd love it. Be wary that the CZ's slide is very short (vertically speaking) and some people don't like that.
I don't think that would bother me. I learnt how to shoot on a Browning Buckmark and find most slides larger than I expected. Also, thanks a lot for the story; that's the kind of stuff I wouldn't know even if I do try the gun once.

Quote:

I don't see that happening, but they have been popping up in stock more lately than they were 6-12 months ago.
This makes Mutenri sad.

It looks like if I want to get a CZ 75B or SP-01, which is my first choice for the moment, I am going to have to look online. Are there gun shops within two hours of Los Angeles that one would recommend for transfer? Or perhaps gun shops that I should scour for an in-store copy? I usually go to Bain & Davis and Turner's Pasadena; nice people, but their fees are exorbitant.

iTrack 11-14-2013 10:34 AM

Call Direct Action Solutions in Solana Beach. They had a 75B, 75BD, and 75 compact in stock

sigfan91 11-14-2013 10:42 AM

Sig P226 and Beretta 92FS are both fine guns. Numerous militaries around the world issue either or both. 92FS is a little more photogenic with its exposed barrel, but pays the price with a fat slide. P226 is more traditional looking, some would even say "blocky." 92FS also has a big round grip. People with smaller hands may not like it. P226's grip is slimmer, and can be made even more so with E2 grip kit. 92FS has a manual safety mounted on the slide that also lowers the hammer when engaged. Therefore, it cannot be carried "cocked and locked" like a 1911. P226 doesn't have a manual safety. It has a decocker that lowers the hammer only. The gun can still be fired without manipulating anything under DA mode.

I prefer the P226.

Browning HiPower has been the issue pistols of many militaries around the world for decades. I've never shot one so can't really comment on it.

I don't know anything about CZ75 at all.

Cody 11-14-2013 11:02 AM

It doesn't matter what you buy as your first gun because in reality you'll own 5 guns by this time next year. You've been bit by the gun bug. You are now infected for life.

-Cody

nahpungnome 11-14-2013 11:13 AM

Straightline Tactical in Anaheim had a CZ 75B in stock for $599 and a P-01 for $619. You can get it cheaper online, but MAY have to SSE due to the part number depending on how your FFL deals with that.

nikki#2 11-14-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Waster (Post 12764416)

However, I'm planning to buy a Glock 17 as well. Why? Well during one USPSA match, I had to decock the SP-01 manually (at the start of every stage) and I was tired and the hammer slipped while I was "making ready" and got DQ'ed when the gun ND'ed down range (yes, it was pointed in a safe direction as I decocked it of course). Normally you wouldn't decock it (it has a safety) but for USPSA you have to. So I wanted to start the next season of USPSA with a no-brainer G17 so I can focus on shooting skills with a less than heavenly trigger, like on the SP-01 and not worry as much as I do when I decock that stupid thing. Also, in case I take a pistol class or something, I'd like to use a striker gun in 9mm. Just so I can focus on other things than control manipulation the first time out.

+1 OP, you will own more than one handgun. With #1, go Striker-fired. Don't like the grip angle of the Glock 17? Understood, I would recommend a Smith and Wesson M&P. Same natural grip angle of the 1911,
better customer service than Glock. Don't get me wrong, I love my multiple CZ handguns and long guns, but I started with a striker-fired G17. And more recently I chose to start my wife on a striker-fired pistol.
At the time of my first gun purchase, the S&W M&P was not an option. I now own several S&W handguns and long guns, and as a direct result of that experience, I now also own a few shares of SWHC. :thumbsup:

Bottom Line: It's a striker-fired pistol in the bedside table, and there is no plan for that to change (KISS).

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf5d65531.jpg

JohnnyMtn 11-14-2013 11:19 AM

Get the Beretta because you can find them a over the place and because you cannot go wrong with it given what you've outlined so far. It is a great pistol and you will love it.

The CZ is fine too but you can spend time trying to find it. Get the Beretta now and just start shooting it.

And then I would bet good money that you will end up getting a CZ or a 226 or both in the coming years. Whatever you buy now will not be the only pistol you ever own.

maddoggie13 11-14-2013 11:21 AM

Look for a use s&w 5906 from a cop.

davidwow 11-14-2013 11:39 AM

Since you posted you are considering these choices: CZ 75 B, Beretta 92FS, or on the off chance I find one in the right price zone, Browning Hi Power or SIG P226.

I suggest you go to the range and handle a 1911 (since they typically don't have CZ, and since their ergos are similar) and also rent a beretta and 226... at the range choose which gun feels more comfortable in your hand.

You listed 3 very different guns in terms of ergos. Then after that, make your decsion. I still think the CZ is more accurate but probably not noticeably so, it mostly depends on the shooter imo.

SoCalEnthusiast 11-14-2013 12:09 PM

Get a Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm full size. You'll thank me for it!

SoulStealer 11-14-2013 12:12 PM

My vote is for the SP-01.

Damascus gun shop has 2 in stock! $579.00

http://www.damascusgunshop.com/shop/...-75-sp-01.html



http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8fcee440.jpg

Xtracrispy 11-14-2013 12:34 PM

My experience is limited in those, but maybe it'll help :)

92 is a good shooting gun, solid and easy to strip, but it feels terrible in my hands, and the safety is in a weird spot.

I was REAL close to buying a CZ, but in .45, it falls in my hand like it was made for me. Have never shot one, but heard good things.

P226/229, liked almost as much as the CZ. But again, never shot one.

Never held a Hi-Power.

My 1911 spoiled me, so all SA/DA triggers feel funny to me, but I liked the CZ the most, IIRC.

krwada 11-14-2013 12:55 PM

I can tell you this ... If it feels good, and goes BANG ... then it will most likely work for you.

Both CZ 75 B, and Beretta 92FS are excellent choices.

Just pick one and go out and purchase it!

You will not be sorry.

I would go with the CZ myself. The CZ is an excellent platform.

nikki#2 11-14-2013 1:43 PM

- If you take a pistol class, the vast majority of the guns will be striker-fired. I use this page from Front Sight simply because they probably train more people than everyone else combined.

- If you get into action pistol competition (e.g., uspsa, idpa, etc.) the majority of the guns will be striker-fired. If you make it to the USPSA Nationals, over 65% of the guns in Production Division will be striker-fired.

Since it's your first handgun and you're the kind of guy who does meticulous research about his hobbies, I'm sure you already know that, and you've decided you'd rather go DA/SA... And you know it will take more training
to become proficient/competitive with a DA/SA.... And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that! :thumbsup:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0026c0ed.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...tos/uspsa2.jpg

razorduc 11-14-2013 2:37 PM

I love the Beretta. Get the A1 if you want to add a light.

If you haven't already handled all of your choices, LA Gun Club has a large selection. I'm pretty sure they have CZ, but you should call them first.

And let me know if they have it, because I want to go try one.

L84CABO 11-14-2013 2:41 PM

I'm not much of a CZ fan. Nothing wrong with them, I just don't care for them. I've got a Beretta 92G Elite that I had Ernest Lagndon work the trigger over back in the day when he was still doing that kinda thing on Berettas. It was my first handgun. I'll always love that gun. It's a sweet shooter for sure.

I've also got a Sig P226 Enhanced Elite. It's a fantastic gun as well. If I had to choose one, I'd choose the Sig. I'm not sure how much better I'd say it is over the Beretta, but it's certainly as good and in a more compact package. I'd actually consider carrying that gun if we ever win that right. The Beretta is just to big.

But honestly, I don't think there's a bad choice in any of the guns you are considering. You should seriously go rent these guns. They're pretty common in most rental counters. You'll be able to sort out which you like better a lot quicker that way than here.

NickZag 11-14-2013 3:28 PM

Can't go wrong with what you've listed, but I'll give my .2 cents...

I own every pistol you mentioned except the CZ. Though I've never fired or taken one apart, they have a nice grip and the price is right. Everyone who has one says good things and eventually I will own one (selling a rifle to buy one actually... any takers? lol).

The 92FS is a good, solid pistol. I like the trigger, it's accurate, and easy to take apart/assemble. However, I'm not a fan of the decocker/safety. If your doing a traditional rack, it gets in the way. You just have to program yourself to use the slide button and you won't have a problem unless your clearing a malfunction. That said, I love mine and would never sell it.

The Sig 226 is also an excellent gun. Also accurate and probably the easiest gun to take apart/assemble. The decocker is simple to use and isn't in the way of the slide like the 92fs. However, unlike most I'm not a fan of the sig trigger unless it has the SRT from sig. The stock sig trigger feels spongy and has a long reset. To put it in perspective, I have a sig P220 next to my bed at night.

While I'm a huge 1911 fan (I own 5 of them) and others have mentioned them, you said your not a fan of cleaning which means taking them apart and 1911's can be a bit fickle. Most of us that love them enjoy tinkering with them. A quality 1911 will most likely be out of your $750 price range.

The browning hi power is a great, fun gun to shoot, but something about it keeps me from pointing anyone to it for they're first pistol. It feels good in the hand and has a nice trigger, but the hammer can bite if you have large hands or aren't paying attention. I can't put my finger on why I wouldn't steer anyone to it for they're first gun, but I would go with one of your other options.

I wouldn't rule out a poly frame just yet. I used to be the biggest sig fan until I finally shot a glock and was hooked quickly. I like the striker fired trigger, easy maintainance, and reliability of the Glock. My friend has a M&P 9c and I've shot that a few times and like that also. There are plenty of good poly frame guns out there to choose from.

Hope that helps

neouser 11-14-2013 3:33 PM

Any of those four and a boresnake.


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