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-   -   Ccw denied, appeals date next week. Help!!!!! (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=830419)

Alexander831 09-29-2013 1:54 PM

Ccw denied, appeals date next week. Help!!!!!
 
Have my ccw appeals date(10/4/13) wondering has anybody gone thru the appeal for getting denied a ccw? And if so how did it go? What should I expect? Doesn't matter your county just want to have an idea of what happens and if u got approve after the appeal.

Librarian 09-29-2013 3:08 PM

First item: what issuing agency denied your app?

Second: what reason did they specify?

CA LTC issuing is so strongly dependent on the agency that very little transfers from one to another.

jaymz 09-29-2013 6:08 PM

Librarian is correct. All I can assume with the limited info you provided is that they will discuss the reason for denial, and probably give you a chance to explain.

Alexander831 09-29-2013 7:12 PM

Sorry, I applied with my local sheriffs office in Monterey county. The letter of denial states: this is to notify you that the undersheriff has reviewed your application for a carry concealed weapon permit. After careful consideration, the undersheriff has declined to approve your request as you do not meet the requisite criteria for issue established by the sheriffs office and the California penal code. Im a law abiding citizen and I have proven my residence in the county I applied. I have no criminal record just 2 speeding tickets. I was told by the lady that interview me that self defense was enought to be granted a ccw. I explained that I just want to protect me, my wife and kids.

ArcherDog 09-29-2013 7:47 PM

Good luck bro

Tripper 09-29-2013 8:16 PM

Be very firm/ convincing that you would like to have the ability to protect you and yours
Considering, salinas is among the must violent cities in America
Gangs all over, both sur and nor
If you want to get a jab in, you could me ruin that even the sheriff doesn't seem to want to deport criminal aliens, placing you and your family at even more risk
Assure that you have sufficient training, hoping to exceed any 'firearms' training that most deputies might have. (Bear in mind they qual 4x a year now, I think) hopefully you have lots of training
The sheriff 'has' overturned denials, but I don't know how many
I'll inquire if possible
PM me if you want to provide any other pertinent details
Oh, my understanding is they don't like 'any' prior drug anything at any time in your past

Alexander831 09-29-2013 9:42 PM

Thanks guys I really appreciate the support and help. What do u guys think it means when they say i don't meet the requisite criteria for issue??? Makes me think of my good cause but they normally state its cuz of your good cause.

Uriah02 09-29-2013 10:03 PM

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...cw_map-big.png

It wasn't you it was them. I know it is a few years old but I don't think Monterey has changed at all.

Tripper 09-30-2013 6:17 AM

That map is different now
Monterey has changed on that it states it will issue with personal protection as sufficient cause, but throws in a psych eval and an intrusive background check

OP
the letter says 'does not meet criteria'?

I might also add that now they have suggested to everyone you know that you have applied and could be putting you in more danger by denying
(Probably should t day that, I just hate the fact they are so intrusive then deny)

biglou 09-30-2013 6:53 AM

That map needs to show San Joaquin County in RED or it should read "Donate cash to Sheriff Moore campaign".

Alexander831 09-30-2013 9:15 AM

Yes letter say, I do not meet requisite criteria.

Librarian 09-30-2013 9:24 AM

Monterey SO currently has 87 LTC out to civilians, for 304,000 theoretically eligible. (Del Ray Oaks 1, Greenfield 2, Soledad 1)

87 is far from zero, but .03% of the population with licenses suggests there is a difference between statements and performance.

Supertac916 09-30-2013 11:48 AM

Sacramento County used to be very difficult with only 250 in the entire county. I was denied, spoke with the detective, and setup my appeal meeting with the LT.

It was very similar to a police cadet interview. I was asked why I needed one and given multiple scenarios. Every time he had a reason why I didn't need one, I gave him examples of when his scenario could leave me exposed.

For example, I was working at the range and would close by myself regularly. He stated that I could legally carry with permission from my boss on range property. I gave him examples of when I locked my gun, unloaded, in the trunk of my car before going home. At that time I was exposed to robbery and those individuals would have complete access to all of the firearms and ammunition on the premises. I also was exposed when driving home because my firearm was locked in the trunk.

He also gave me scenarios of when I was out at the bar or club with my LEO friends and we see a robbery in progress. My response was I wouldn't be armed at a bar or club because my CCW would prohibit it. Should my friends get into a shootout I'd call 911. They don't want Zimmermans or wannabe cops.

Expect scenarios and a decent "cause" for carrying. Some counties accept "Personal Protection", but many still don't. I recently changed to Placer and they aren't Shall Issue, but the interviewing deputy said the Sheriff has given specific orders to help law abiding citizens acquire their permits. Mine was that in my current profession I handle millions of dollars and some clients want physical gold or silver, which may require me to transport. I was honest and told him it was unlikely, but he said it was good enough for him. I had my permit with Sac for 11 years and just finished my first with Placer. These counties are great because they believe in allowing their citizens to practice their 2nd Amendment rights.

Good luck Op.

Tripper 09-30-2013 12:31 PM

@librarian
I think your numbers are old
The number last publicly held is 209

Librarian 09-30-2013 1:07 PM

Possibly; that's what CADOJ reported for 2012 for civilians; LE and reservist LTC are not available to 'us folks'.

Tripper 09-30-2013 1:57 PM

Not that many LE/reserves/judges on the list
It's likely closer to 250 by now

Librarian 09-30-2013 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 12433969)
Not that many LE/reserves/judges on the list
It's likely closer to 250 by now

I'd like to see the source of your numbers.

I have 108 total from CA DOJ, 17 are judges or reserves.

Tripper 09-30-2013 5:52 PM

Ccw denied, appeals date next week. Help!!!!!
 
http://m.montereycountyweekly.com/mo...9a2d762d4.html

Find the non mobile version for the PDF list of ccw holders, i think, reserves judges DA and probation are listed, I'll look again from a computer to see

Tripper 09-30-2013 6:03 PM

OP
If it were me
1st question I would ask is
'what criteria has not been met, what can I do to meet that criteria'
Everything else is dependent on the answer to that, try to not allow a vague answer

if the lack of sufficient cause is the stated reason, I would ask how that is possible considering during his campaign he stated personal protection is sufficient cause

Psych, could be another reason, im sure others can provide a better response, absent something better, id start with reminding him that I am applying for a CCW, not applying to be an officer, I hope others can provide better response to that, it's the national/federal psych standard

Something in Background; it was x years ago, I've learned many lessons since and rest assured nothing even remotely close can occur in the future

Hopefully someone can provide some better responses to the various reasons that might be given

see if you can call your investigator to get a better idea what criteria wasnt met, that might help.

maybe reschedule 'after' the sheriff tells you the reason, letting him know that you have been given insufficient time to prepare, based on the fact you was not given a specific reason and you would like time to prepare an effective appeal.
after all, he's had since you appealed to prepare, by asking questions of everyone involved, you should be afforded the same opportunity.

Good luck

Librarian 09-30-2013 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 12435938)
http://m.montereycountyweekly.com/mo...9a2d762d4.html

Find the non mobile version for the PDF list of ccw holders, i think, reserves judges DA and probation are listed, I'll look again from a computer to see

Bunch of nice quotes in that article, thanks ...
Quote:

April 25, 2013
...
Wasson is a National Rifle Association-certified instructor, a range safety officer, and an approved instructor for the conceal-carry weapon certification. 


He is also one of only 209 people in Monterey County who have permits to carry concealed weapons wherever they go.

...
Wasson says he applied three years ago through former Sheriff Mike Kanalakis, whose office initially denied him a permit. (He doesn’t know why.) He successfully appealed the denial and then went through a local, four-hour safety class – the minimum time required by the state – which includes time spent on a range to show proficiency. 

And the regular-site version has the link - http://mcweekly.media.clients.elling...April_2013.doc - to the list of CCW holders (but no indication of Civilian/Reserve/Judge, though LE related seems likely to be a smaller number than Civilian). That said, 209 out of 304,000 is .07% ... When the number passes 15,000, maybe we'll have something.

Alexander831 09-30-2013 8:19 PM

I also took that four hour safety class which also included time spent on the range to show proficiency with the handguns I had said I wanted to carry. 3 days later I got a letter that stated I had pass the course, written and sign by the instructor. That was back in may of this year. Never got to do the psych evaluation because the sheriffs office never turned my paper work to them. I had my ccw interview march 5 2013, I tried to schedule with the psych MARCh 29 then late MAY then APRIL and early JUNE. Each and every time they would say they hadent receive my paper work and then I would call the lady that did the interview and she would say they hadent sent it yet to try next month. Later in late June I got the denial letter never had a chance with the psych. I really don't understand could it be my age? I'm 24yrs old a loving husband and father of two. Just trying to protect myself and family.

Tripper 10-01-2013 6:06 AM

I'm going to guess they denied for lack of psych, in which case I would show it was absolutely no fault of my own, and thus should not be denied based on that, you did everything you were suppose to, the dept failed on their end, and absent anything else your ccw should be issued immediately, as you have met all requirements that you were afforded the opportunity to meet
No psych, too bad, they should have had their stuff together, you even reminded them on numerous occasions, applied in march, when did you do your livescan? They figure the 90 days starts at that time, not when you ask for an appointment

Tripper 10-01-2013 5:23 PM

Umm
Delete that last
But tell the sheriff

Mixitup 10-22-2013 11:07 AM

Just curious if there was any update on the outcome on this.

Yaki 10-23-2013 12:24 PM

I went my appeal 2 weeks ago with M.C. sheriff Miller. We sat he asked me a few questions made some statements. Wanted to look me in the eye and not just paperwork which i respect and appreciate. Lasted about 15-20 minutes.

SacTown 10-23-2013 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarian (Post 12433531)
Possibly; that's what CADOJ reported for 2012 for civilians; LE and reservist LTC are not available to 'us folks'.

Could you provide a link to where you found the 2012 LTC issuance numbers? I am only able to find 2011 and older that lists the issuance of permits by county.

sarabellum 10-31-2013 3:57 PM

Ask the denying agency for their procedural manual for administrative appeals and/or if they are going to follow the California Administrative Procedures Act for guidance. If the agency provides a meaningful hearing with an administrative law judge, take advantage of that opportunity. Hopefully, Calguns will step in. The APA can be downloaded here: http://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/oah/...re%2520Act.pdf Local agencies are not required to follow the APA, but the courts look to it for analogous guidance on what administrative due procedures should have been extended to you.

If you are denied at the administrative appeal stage, then you have the right to pursue a petition for writ of mandate at the superior court under both CCP 1085 and 1094 for any violations of procedural and substantive due process. Procedural due process challenges attack irregularities in how the hearing(s) was conducted, e.g. the agency did not respond to discovery prior to the hearing or your evidence was excluded at the hearing, etc. Substantive due process is the violation of your right to access a benefit or license, i.e. the CCW license.

There are practice guides at your local law library as to how to approach administrative appeals and a petition for writ of mandate.

Write down your deadlines on an old fashioned calendar to avoid pitfalls.

NoJoke 10-31-2013 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander831 (Post 12428910)
the undersheriff has declined to approve your request as you do not meet the requisite criteria for issue established by the sheriffs office and the California penal code..

Dang. On face value that statement seems so, SOOO very ripe for a law suit.

It's as if the second amendment DOES NOT EXIST. Yet, it DOES!

Alexander831 10-31-2013 8:18 PM

This past tuesday was two weeks of my appeal. I have my lucky rabbit foot and fingers crossed. Hope all goes well if not im willing to take it all the way!(superior court) I have contacted CGF but haven't heard from them. Bummer...

Charlie50 11-01-2013 5:47 AM

Good luck! I am guessing that face to face with Sheriff was positive. Issuing agencies want to know if you look anything like the nut jobs who shot bunches of people... I trust you left the cape at home :) Keep us posted

Eirerogue 11-01-2013 6:17 AM

That face-to-face might have worked for Mayberry, but isn't viable in a mid-sized city. I'm sure that you didn't have a sign on your forehead stating you might be a wacko.

This is what happens when 'hands-on' turns into a broken process.

junior40er 11-01-2013 6:24 AM

hope this works out for you.

Alexander831 11-01-2013 9:46 AM

The appeal with the sheriff went pretty smooth he just wanted to talk to me face to face and explain to him why i wanted a ccw. After 20min of talking he said he got a good feel for me and he would make his decision soon. He was a pretty chill guy, very understanding. I hope I didn't over dress because i took my suit. Lol... Oh and thanks guys for all your help and support, means a lot to me.

sarabellum 11-07-2013 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander831 (Post 12428910)
After careful consideration, the undersheriff has declined to approve your request as you do not meet the requisite criteria for issue established by the sheriffs office and the California penal code.

The Sheriff failed to apply the law to the facts to justify how you allegedly failed to meet the criteria for the license. Calguns Foundation has filed suit in what appears to be a mandamus action in Rossow v. County of Merced, CV002052.

Appeal: the appeal "hearing" was oddly informal. Mandamus under CCP 1085, 1094.5 seems to be a route to take if the appeal after "hearing" is denied. http://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/Ca...oc._1094.5.pdf , http://ceb.com/freefromCEB/cp32890ch1.pdf It sounds like you were pleasant. I applaud you for appealing. Stay strong.

Alexander831 11-13-2013 2:26 PM

So it's been over a month since my appeal date with the sheriff, haven't gotten a call or letter. Should I give them a call or keep waiting? Anybody have an idea of how long it takes?

JohnCCW 11-13-2013 10:12 PM

I would give it two months, then contact again. Don't want to seem impatient. The monkey suit was a nice touch, could only help.

The sad fact that Librarian was trying to make clear is that M.C. is not CCW friendly, so don't take it personal that they don't want you to have a permit.
And on that note, the 2 speeding tickets alone could be used as reason for denial under "good moral character" if the Sheriff sees fit.

Mixitup 01-29-2014 8:43 PM

Just curious if you ever got approved or did they deny again?

HighLander51 01-30-2014 8:53 AM

Alexander831

And you read every post in the CCW county information for Monterey?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352771


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