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-   -   indoor Range for practicing draw and fire (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=703562)

lexpbeltran 02-13-2013 11:39 PM

indoor Range for practicing draw and fire
 
Hi. I'm new here in this forum and new also here in OC, ananaheim area. I was wondering if there is an indoor range that would permit a draw and fire exercise. Some said it all depends on the range master/officer if you would be allowed, based on your competence and skill level/ safety habits, etc. Hope you guys can help me out. Been dry firing from the holster, and wish to put in practice with live ammo. Thanks ..:)

HighLander51 02-14-2013 4:32 AM

Why not just come out and shoot a competition match like USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge? Especially Steel Challenge, 7 stages with 5 strings and 1 stage with 4 strings (all 5 shots each).


http://uspsa.com/

http://steelchallenge.com/

http://idpa.com/

lexpbeltran 02-14-2013 11:33 AM

I would love too join, but as of this time, I got to return to basics again. Laid off for 5 years. Thanks for the encouragement. :o

rsmorgan 02-14-2013 11:38 AM

I don't think Field Time range allows individual draw-from-holster but they do have quite a few training and competition events that permit it.

Quite frankly, however, you will learn almost as much from dry practice of your draw than you will at a range. Dry practice your draw, shoot from the "low ready" position at the range and it is easy to put the two together.

mabilis_matulis 02-14-2013 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmorgan (Post 10533188)
I don't think Field Time range allows individual draw-from-holster but they do have quite a few training and competition events that permit it.

Quite frankly, however, you will learn almost as much from dry practice of your draw than you will at a range. Dry practice your draw, shoot from the "low ready" position at the range and it is easy to put the two together.

+1:oji:

five.five-six 02-14-2013 10:25 PM

Practice at howm with snap caps. Most ranges require that you have private lessons with a known instructor to draw and fire.

GeoffLinder 02-14-2013 10:42 PM

The only range I have ever found that allowed live-fire draw-n-shoot and reload practice was a range in Las Vegas that let me use a solitary bay for practice when I went in early in the day. I was there for an extended work stay and they let me do so once I showed them I had a decent level of competition experience. Doubt any in CA will allow this unless they are holding an action competition.

As far as getting back in the game, if you were sharp at one point, doing dry fire and draw, reload and movement exercises at home should be all you need to get your moves back on.

BTW, dry fire with semi-autos does not require snap caps, total PITA to do so for continuous dry firing anyway. All my semi's have 10's of thousands of dry fires on them to no ill effect, Glocks, SIG's, 1911's, centerfire revolvers, all good to go. Only type of firearm you should not dryfire without snap caps is a rimfire revolver.

HighLander51 02-15-2013 5:08 AM

I don't recommend excessive dry firing on a Glock. The striker energy, although small, is all transferred to the breech face, instead of impacting on the primer. After tens of thousands of strikes, it will damage the breech face. I have seen two of these failures with competition shooters.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...rokenGlock.jpg

Brian1979 02-15-2013 5:17 AM

Dont go to indoor ranges. Your blood lead levels will sky rocket!

five.five-six 02-15-2013 9:09 AM

Shenanigans! Glocks are indestructible.
Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLander51 (Post 10540909)
I don't recommend excessive dry firing on a Glock. The striker energy, although small, is all transferred to the breech face, instead of impacting on the primer. After tens of thousands of strikes, it will damage the breech face. I have seen two of these failures with competition shooters.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...rokenGlock.jpg


GeoffLinder 02-15-2013 9:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLander51 (Post 10540909)
I don't recommend excessive dry firing on a Glock. The striker energy, although small, is all transferred to the breech face, instead of impacting on the primer. After tens of thousands of strikes, it will damage the breech face. I have seen two of these failures with competition shooters.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...rokenGlock.jpg

The breech face on mine is over 20 years old and has at least 40k dry fires on it in addition to maybe 70-80k rounds through the gun. I know of many other shooters who have dry fired their Glock's as much or more. Never seen this before or heard of anyone having this problem before.

To my eye, that damage looks like case head pressure from firing has weakened the breech face and some other reason is the culprit here.

All semi-autos transfer the striker energy to the firing pin hole when dry fired, have as many dry fires on a couple 1911 style guns too, one with titanium firing pin.

Thanks for the concern, but I am not worried about this myself from practical experience and lack of other evidence.

GeoffLinder 02-15-2013 9:49 AM

Here is the breech face on my 17L which has more use on it than most folks will ever put through theirs. 40k standard 9mm, over 30k 9mm Major and uncountable dry firings.

Looks pretty much like it did 20 years ago other than wear from case heads sliding in and out of battery.

My guess is maybe Glock is making them shoddier nowadays ;) or maybe something else, still not buying that firing pin pressure does this.

http://video.axialvideo.com/images/17L_Breech_Face.jpg

cindynles 02-15-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLander51 (Post 10529837)
Why not just come out and shoot a competition match like USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge? Especially Steel Challenge, 7 stages with 5 strings and 1 stage with 4 strings (all 5 shots each).


http://uspsa.com/

http://steelchallenge.com/

http://idpa.com/

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexpbeltran (Post 10533142)
I would love too join, but as of this time, I got to return to basics again. Laid off for 5 years. Thanks for the encouragement. :o

Competition shooting is cheaper than going to an indoor range in many instances. For example you can shoot USPSA at Pala for $35. You get to shoot on the move, draw from the holster, and shoot at moving targets (none of which you can do at an indoor range).

Competition shooting is one of the most cost effective forms of practice you can get. Give it a try and you will see. You will also get feedback from some really good shooters for free.

HighLander51 02-15-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder (Post 10542584)
The breech face on mine is over 20 years old and has at least 40k dry fires on it in addition to maybe 70-80k rounds through the gun. I know of many other shooters who have dry fired their Glock's as much or more. Never seen this before or heard of anyone having this problem before.

To my eye, that damage looks like case head pressure from firing has weakened the breech face and some other reason is the culprit here.

All semi-autos transfer the striker energy to the firing pin hole when dry fired, have as many dry fires on a couple 1911 style guns too, one with titanium firing pin.

Thanks for the concern, but I am not worried about this myself from practical experience and lack of other evidence.

Geoff, I had never heard of it either, nor seen it, until like I said, one of the locals had the failure in his G34. I don't have a picture, but it looked lilke a combination of the first pic and this one. This shooter probably had around 75K on the gun, and probably as many dry fires. I know it wasn't his loads, because he always chrono's just above minor.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8...ACHFAILURE.jpg

GeoffLinder 02-15-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLander51 (Post 10543861)
Geoff, I had never heard of it either, nor seen it, until like I said, one of the locals had the failure in his G34. I don't have a picture, but it looked lilke a combination of the first pic and this one. This shooter probably had around 75K on the gun, and probably as many dry fires. I know it wasn't his loads, because he always chrono's just above minor.

Hmmm! I am wondering if Glock has changed metallurgy in recent years?

The metal could be getting brittle from work hardening because of firing pressure hammering on the breech face and then reverse impact causes the failure.

I will have to research this and see if there are more reported instances and causes documented anywhere.

Maybe Ray from GlockWorx might have an answer to this?

lexpbeltran 02-15-2013 1:14 PM

Thanks a lot for all the inputs and words of wisdom. :clap::clap::clap:

gesundheit 02-15-2013 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLander51 (Post 10540909)
I don't recommend excessive dry firing on a Glock. The striker energy, although small, is all transferred to the breech face, instead of impacting on the primer. After tens of thousands of strikes, it will damage the breech face. I have seen two of these failures with competition shooters.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...rokenGlock.jpg

What is the year of manufacture for this Glock?

hermosabeach 02-15-2013 1:54 PM

To I hijack the thread-
Once the team at Sharpshooters in Torrance knows who you are and are comfortable, then they will allow drawing from the holster.

If you do not shoot there on a regular basis or take classes, then it is the standard indoor range safety shooting platform

You can rent a private range for the day at burro canyon and shoot from the holster

hermosabeach 02-15-2013 1:56 PM

You might also go to one of TJ Jonstons classes / fun shoots at Evans shooters world.

If a place allows indoor holster shooting, my guess is that TJ would know what shops allow it

If you are in OC, sign up for his newsletters
TJ Johnston
www.allsafedefense.com

Predaxian 02-15-2013 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hermosabeach (Post 10545231)
To I hijack the thread-
Once the team at Sharpshooters in Torrance knows who you are and are comfortable, then they will allow drawing from the holster.

I can confirm this. They offer a periodic one-day class to certify users to carry and draw from holsters on their range.



Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

Brian1979 02-15-2013 7:03 PM

I dont dry fire and my breech face was starting to pit some months back. I just checked it again and its much worse. I am pretty pissed about this as I have just 15k rounds in this gun. I will be calling Glock next week to see what they have to say but according to some other local shooters they are calling it a problem from reloads which is BS. The only people that are going to see high round counts are reloaders and competitors.

It seems newer glocks quality has gone to crap. This gun is I think only 4 years old and is a g21sf.

Heres what it looks like right now. I cant help but to think about my nice quality 1911s in the safe or my HK that dont have serious issues like this.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9077/photoyac.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

GeoffLinder 02-15-2013 8:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian1979 (Post 10548214)
I dont dry fire and my breech face was starting to pit some months back. I just checked it again and its much worse. I am pretty pissed about this as I have just 15k rounds in this gun. I will be calling Glock next week to see what they have to say but according to some other local shooters they are calling it a problem from reloads which is BS. The only people that are going to see high round counts are reloaders and competitors.

It seems newer glocks quality has gone to crap. This gun is I think only 4 years old and is a g21sf.

Heres what it looks like right now. I cant help but to think about my nice quality 1911s in the safe or my HK that dont have serious issues like this.

This is exactly why I think it has nothing to do with dry firing and everything to do with metallurgy on late model Glocks. Striker push may have been the straw that broke the camels back in the previously posted images, but I seriously doubt it is the real culprit.

Brian1979 02-15-2013 8:20 PM

I am reading on the 1911forum that there is gas blow back from loose primer pockets. Is it possible the brass is so old the pockets are loose and doing this? I saw pics of a nice 1911 with much worse pitting so perhaps there is another issue going on.

lexpbeltran 02-15-2013 9:39 PM

Thanks again for the info Predaxian.. How bout indoor ange here in OC are for draw and fire??:o


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