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-   -   Educate me a bit on an AR for hogs? (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=789246)

Capybara 07-06-2013 7:21 PM

Educate me a bit on an AR for hogs?
 
Helping a friend build an AR. I have an AR but I am not a hunter. My instincts are telling me that .223/5.56 would not be a very effective hog cartridge, what should I tell him to go for if he wants to build an AR specifically for hog hunting? I know very little about the variant cartridges like .300 Blackout, 6.5, etc.?

Is there an effective hog cartridge he could build his AR around without having to go with an AR10 in .308?

Thanks.

baih777 07-06-2013 7:28 PM

450 bushmaster
50 Beowulf

Jason25 07-06-2013 7:28 PM

7.62x39

zfields 07-06-2013 7:50 PM

A lot of people use it out here for eradication.

If I was building one for hunting, I'd either go 300 blk, or just stick with a 30-30 lever gun or 308. I know this isn't much help, but you are a bit limited by the 223 receiver.

S470FM 07-06-2013 8:16 PM

6.8, 300, 6.5

Beatone 07-06-2013 8:20 PM

50 Beowulf for sure.

steelholder 07-06-2013 8:59 PM

223 will do just fine

zomie 07-06-2013 9:20 PM

Either 300 blk or 6.5 Grendel...

300 blk would be easier to get parts for and cheaper to get an upper. It is also much easier to get supplies for reloading.

Thorax 07-06-2013 9:21 PM

Shot many a hog with a 223
They die just fine.

a 50 Beowulf just ruins more meat.

NapalmCheese 07-06-2013 9:22 PM

243 wssm, 6.8, 6.5, 7.62x39, 300 blk, 458 socom, 450 bushmaster, 50 beowulf, or .223/5.56 if your a Texan.

Seriously though, you'll get lots of people saying .223 is too light and plenty more saying it's just fine. If your friend is an experienced hunter that's exhibits good judgement and can place shots accurately at appropriate times then he can also choose his caliber. If not, I'd stay away from .223 for the moment, at least until more experience was developed.

Chewbaca 07-06-2013 9:23 PM

7.62x39 if you want a gun you can shoot for under .25 cents a pop !

NapalmCheese 07-06-2013 9:30 PM

Only problem with 7.62x39 is that hunting ammo is a little hard to come buy, and non-lead hunting ammo is worse.

Though any ammo is a little hard to find for the other calibers aside .223/5.56.

Remember, in CA it has to be an expanding bullet for big game and in the condor zone it has to be lead free and expanding.

Capybara 07-06-2013 9:40 PM

Thanks for all of the advice, it sounds like there is no caliber consensus so I am going to just show him this thread and let him make the choice.

BadMatt 07-06-2013 9:51 PM

I'm trying to build a pig AR 15, and my conclusion is that I'm better off getting a bolt action rifle. While 300 AAC blk sounds good (you only need to change the barrel), it doesnt sound like a good round beyond 100 - 200 yds. It's big advantage is using a suppressor which you can't in CA, the loud state.

6.5 and 6.8 require new uppers, bcg and mags, about 75% of an AR 15. For the cost of all this, you can get a decent bolt action rifle.

peter95 07-06-2013 9:52 PM

I would go with the 6.5 Grendel or go with the 300BO, which would be the cheapest way. Change the barrel and wallah!

Ishooter 07-06-2013 10:04 PM

Make sure your friend check on the law for using semi-auto rifle for hunting. There may be the limit on how many rounds can be in the mag. If I'm not mistaken, there's a limit of only 3 or 4 rounds in the shotgun when hunting. So there maybe a limit for semi-auto rifle, too.

kowalski 07-06-2013 10:14 PM

Those of you using 223, which 5 round mags are you using?

Dattebayo 07-06-2013 10:25 PM

As others have said the .223/5.56 round isn't adequate to kill really much of anything larger than a coyote.

.308 is a great round if you don't mind building an AR-10.

In the AR15 platform, as many others have said, the most popular choices are 6.5mm Grendel, 6.8mm SPC/SPC II, or 300AAC BLKOUT.

6.5mm Grendel has the largest effective range out of any of the AR15 cartridges. It seems like the most versatile round, but the downfall is finding parts and bullets for this gun. Because there are very few companies that make 6.5mm rounds, they are often hard to find and very expensive. Brass often has a 3-5 week wait time on the order from what I heard. Losing this brass at the range also makes your cry. Reloading is the only logical option if you plan to shoot 6.5mm Grendel. It is pretty nice though as it has an effective range out to about 700 yards and you could punch paper pretty well at the 1000 yard mark. If you decide to go this route, you need a new barrel, bcg, and mags.

The 6.8 SPC/SPC II is a bit more popular. There seems to be parts readily available from my searches and bullets are also easier to find, albeit expensive still. The round is effective to 300-500 yards depending on the bullet and the load. This is a pretty great round within its effective range and fills the gap between the .223 to .308 calibers. Outside its effective range though, this bullet drops pretty significantly. Because of its effective range, it makes it a pretty good hunting round in California. If you decide to go this route, you need a new barrel, bcg, and mags.

The 300AAC BLKOUT is a pretty unique round in its own regard. The benefits of it are that it is a 5.56 brass with a 308 bullet which fits inside a standard AR-15 platform, it is a great round for smaller AR rifles/pistols, and they suppress very well. The first major bonus of this round are that it shoots a 308 bullet out of a AR-15 platform. That in itself is pretty awesome as all you have to do is do a barrel swap and you are done. It is great for smaller AR rifles and pistols because of the increased mass of the bullet, it provides more back pressure and gives a reliable cycle rate even out of shorter barreled gas ARs. Also because of its negative of having a small case size, it makes making subsonic rounds more feasible, making suppressors work better. Speaking of the negative, stuffing a 308 bullet in a 5.56 sized case doesn't allow adequate amount of power to perform at long distances. Because of this, the effective range is limited to 200 yards. Many consider this kind of a new aged 30-30 round. Also because of subsonic loads, if you are shooting non-suppressed, you may not create enough back pressure with low pressure loads to cycle the bolt for the semi auto function. On the good news side of things, it appears most of those kinks have been worked out now. It can be an effective hunting round as long as your shots are closer in - which in CA, it shouldn't be a problem. This route all you need is a new barrel, you can use pre-exsisting mags and bolts.

It all depends on what you want after know all that. I personally like to secondary the gun I get for hunting for punching paper, so I'd be more inclined for the 6.5mm grendel myself. If you had a .308 already, I'd probably go with the 6.8mm SPC to fill the gap between 5.56 and .308.

ldsnet 07-06-2013 11:09 PM

Also depends on where your buddy is going hog hunting, in some states .223 is considered too small by statute as a hunting round.

Considering the brush hogs tend to live/forage in, doubt you will ever see a hog at 200+ yards (here in CA).

rabagley 07-06-2013 11:18 PM

I don't take hunting shots over 75 yards, so the 300blk's range limitations don't bother me in the slightest. There are similar issues/benefits with the 458 SOCOM. I have a 6.5 Grendel with a 24" Rock barrel, but that's for long range competition shooting, not hunting. I prefer keeping .223 for small game only, but I have no problem with another hunter making his own decision that he can get humane kills on larger game with .223.

One of the nicest things about a 458 SOCOM is that the 10 round magazine is functionally indistinguishable from a 30 round .223/5.56 magazine. Doesn't matter to me any more, but when I was in California, I had many 458 SOCOM magazines (make sure they're marked as such) and used those for any round that would fit in them, including .223 and 5.56. According to the legal beagles on this site, it's not a >10 round magazine just because it will fit more than ten rounds of some other caliber.

frigginchi 07-07-2013 4:45 AM

This is how they do it in TX.

steelholder 07-07-2013 7:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dattebayo (Post 11757585)
As others have said the .223/5.56 round isn't adequate to kill really much of anything larger than a coyote.

Ive killed things much larger than a coyote(although great for coyote) maybe 5 times bigger like a deer ??? When did 223 become too small of a round to hunt a hog with? I get the larger calibers and all but with the right shot placement 223 or not its going down either way. What exactly is the larger caliber for? wider cavity? A more devastating exit? 223 will kill it just right. If you need to use a bigger round than you might need to practice..

bob7122 07-07-2013 7:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishooter (Post 11757453)
Make sure your friend check on the law for using semi-auto rifle for hunting. There may be the limit on how many rounds can be in the mag. If I'm not mistaken, there's a limit of only 3 or 4 rounds in the shotgun when hunting. So there maybe a limit for semi-auto rifle, too.

no limits, you could use a 100rnd mag if he had one.

NapalmCheese 07-07-2013 8:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelholder (Post 11759176)
Ive killed things much larger than a coyote(although great for coyote) maybe 5 times bigger like a deer ??? When did 223 become too small of a round to hunt a hog with? I get the larger calibers and all but with the right shot placement 223 or not its going down either way. What exactly is the larger caliber for? wider cavity? A more devastating exit? 223 will kill it just right. If you need to use a bigger round than you might need to practice..

This debate rages in the hunting forum very couple of months or so.

Everything depends on shot placement. No matter what you're shooting you have to hit the vitals. Somehow, some way, you need to keep O2 from getting to the brain, or destroy the CNS beyond recognition. Heart/lung shots are good for keeping O2 from getting to the brain, head/spine shots are good for the latter. Using a .223 gives you less opportunity to do so. Quartering shots require going through a lot of tissue and possibly bone. Big pigs get a lot of fat and gristle on the shoulders which can prematurely slow down or break apart bullets. So it's not that shot placement becomes any more or less critical with smaller calibers, it's that shot choice becomes much more critical. For pigs, .223 reduces the number of shot choices you have to choose from.

G21Shooter 07-07-2013 9:14 AM

.223 is fine for feral pigs if you understand its limitations. If you chose a correct bullet, have good shot placement, and keep the range under 100 yards it'll kill pigs just fine. Is .223 THE ideal pig round, no its not, but it will kill them just fine.

Barnes TSX loads or or Winchester Razorback XT is the way to go as far as ammo. Remington also makes a Hog Hammer load in .223, which is pretty much a TSX copy.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...167/167412.jpg

GUNNTZ 07-07-2013 9:29 AM

I agree with everyone on the 223/556 round. I have successfully hunted multiple times with a 556 62gr penetrator bullet, but shot placement is very critical. Both times I took my shot at 170 yards straight at the head and took down a 340# and 385# hog. I didn't waste my time trying to hit them anywhere else. However, a short while ago I purchased a 300BLK upper from AAC, nice stopping power for bigger game; 200-300 yard max though. 300BLK is a great caliber and allows me to use most all of the same parts as a 223/556. If I was in his shoes I would buy a complete upper, it will be gassed and headspaced correctly.

G21Shooter 07-07-2013 9:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUNNTZ (Post 11759973)
I agree with everyone on the 223/556 round. I have successfully hunted multiple times with a 556 62gr penetrator bullet, but shot placement is very critical. Both times I took my shot at 170 yards straight at the head and took down a 340# and 385# hog. I didn't waste my time trying to hit them anywhere else. However, a short while ago I purchased a 300BLK upper from AAC, nice stopping power for bigger game; 200-300 yard max though. 300BLK is a great caliber and allows me to use most all of the same parts as a 223/556. If I was in his shoes I would buy a complete upper, it will be gassed and headspaced correctly.

Yeah 300 blk is a great choice for hunting with the AR platform for just about any animal you could hunt in California.

If factory ammo was reasonably available for the 300 blk it would be a very attractive option.

CenCalHobbist 07-07-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabagley (Post 11757856)
One of the nicest things about a 458 SOCOM is that the 10 round magazine is functionally indistinguishable from a 30 round .223/5.56 magazine. Doesn't matter to me any more, but when I was in California, I had many 458 SOCOM magazines (make sure they're marked as such) and used those for any round that would fit in them, including .223 and 5.56. According to the legal beagles on this site, it's not a >10 round magazine just because it will fit more than ten rounds of some other caliber.

That's why everyone with an AR should have a .458 or .50 beowulf upper.

GUNNTZ 07-07-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G21Shooter (Post 11760003)
Yeah 300 blk is a great choice for hunting with the AR platform for just about any animal you could hunt in California.

If factory ammo was reasonably available for the 300 blk it would be a very attractive option.

Being able to reload your own ammo will negate the ammo cost. I form and load all my ammo from LC 556 brass, cost per round is about 31-35c. I hear you though, on the open market it's fairly non-existent or really expensive.

fcr 07-07-2013 11:41 AM

Not a hunter but the 6.8 forums seem to be all about pig hunting. I just know I would want something that had hit.

golfish 07-07-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dattebayo (Post 11757585)
The 6.8 SPC/SPC II is a bit more popular. There seems to be parts readily available from my searches and bullets are also easier to find, albeit expensive still. The round is effective to 300-500 yards depending on the bullet and the load. This is a pretty great round within its effective range and fills the gap between the .223 to .308 calibers. Outside its effective range though, this bullet drops pretty significantly. Because of its effective range, it makes it a pretty good hunting round in California. If you decide to go this route, you need a new barrel, bcg, and mags.

.

I'm really getting into this round.

Dattebayo, are we talking about a 16" barrel?

raws 07-07-2013 12:05 PM

Tell him to save his money, real men hunt pigs with knives.

rabagley 07-07-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raws (Post 11761016)
Tell him to save his money, real men hunt pigs with knives.

Knives? Pansies. We used to use a sharpened stick, but then someone called us unsportsmanlike for that, so now we use a blunted stick and our teeth! And we love it.

chuckdc 07-07-2013 2:38 PM

7.62x40 WT. Developed and tested and refined on hogs. Too bad it didnt come out earlier before all the competitors, or it would have had a better chance of making it to factory load status

DannyInSoCal 07-07-2013 2:53 PM

6.8SPC II - Great for hogs, boars, deer, and big horn sheep.

A 110gr (.270) round is a much more humane DRT shot -

Than using a 5.56 round.

Unless of course you are a "cyber-sniper" who never misses....

:43:

Dattebayo 07-07-2013 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfish (Post 11760898)
I'm really getting into this round.

Dattebayo, are we talking about a 16" barrel?

The 16 inch barrel produces great velocities, but I am personally in the school of though that the 18" sacrifice is worth the extra 50-100 FPS.

With longer barrels, the SPC II bullets performance gap will increase. Out of a 24 inch barrel, there is a 1000 to 1500 psi difference between SPC II and SPC.

For most hunting applications, the 6.8 will take down anything within ifs effective range, where any further of a shot, the 308 will be better for the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelholder (Post 11759176)
Ive killed things much larger than a coyote(although great for coyote) maybe 5 times bigger like a deer ??? When did 223 become too small of a round to hunt a hog with? I get the larger calibers and all but with the right shot placement 223 or not its going down either way. What exactly is the larger caliber for? wider cavity? A more devastating exit? 223 will kill it just right. If you need to use a bigger round than you might need to practice..

During hunting, good shot placement isn't always possible. Especially when hogs are feeding, they can change their body position pretty quickly making that good presentation now not so great. With a larger caliber, you can take a not as optimal of a shot, and still be able to get the kill because of the hydrostatic shock that the 308 will create.

I am not an expert shot nor an amazing hunter, so my philosophy is that I rather have more gun than not enough gun to get the job done. Maybe if I was a military sniper or a veteran hunter, I maybe more confident to use a smaller round to make a kill, but for the average person, it would be a better bet to use a larger caliber and get that humane kill.

advocatusdiaboli 07-07-2013 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CenCalHobbist (Post 11760213)
That's why everyone with an AR should have a .458 or .50 beowulf upper.

I like your optimism: if pending legislation passes all the way and doesn't get stopped by the courts, the second you load anything over 10 rounds, your illegal nd semi-autos will be illegal too.

edgerly779 07-07-2013 4:12 PM

i SHOOT A 6.8 AND IT WORKS FINE. jUST NEED A BARREL / MAG AND BOLT TO CONVERT 223/5.56 TO 6.8

MapleSyrupSmuggler 07-07-2013 9:50 PM

Got two hogs so far with 223 (Barnes tsx 55gr) though not on an AR platform but a mini-14. First one (pic) was on a friend's ranch that was literally overrun with hogs, he weighed in at 160 lbs and the second one was on public land weighing ~ 150-175 lbs. 223 so far has worked for me but haters gonna hate. :rolleyes:

G21Shooter 07-07-2013 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MapleSyrupSmuggler (Post 11764816)
Got two hogs so far with 223 (Barnes tsx 55gr) though not on an AR platform but a mini-14. First one (pic) was on a friend's ranch that was literally overrun with hogs, he weighed in at 160 lbs and the second one was on public land weighing ~ 150-175 lbs. 223 so far has worked for me but haters gonna hate. :rolleyes:

Nice hogs! :D Great shooting with iron sights with a Mini 14 non-the-less.


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