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-   -   Bavarian M1 Carbine: A detailed report (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1102028)

Bainter1212 08-09-2015 2:43 PM

Bavarian M1 Carbine: A detailed report
 
Hello,

As some of you may be aware, I recently picked up a Bavarian Forestry Police M1 Carbine. Last night, I finally got the chance to tear it down and clean it. The thing was desperately in need of cleaning. The firing pin was jammed forward due to all the grease in the bolt - the prior owner probably sold it due to slamfires.

Anyway...here goes.


It is an Underwood with an Underwood barrel dated 12-43.


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psyjtzeawi.jpg


Some general pics. Lighting was too bright in the sun and too dim in the shade. Where is an overcast day when you need one?

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psucxcp3vm.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psbukygqos.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psuyuuqjnz.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psghwkolzr.jpg




serial # 26612XX



http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psree9d231.jpg



Rebuild markings on stock


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psf9dwzfpw.jpg


Don't know what these numbers are, possibly a rack number?


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psgqzbkhba.jpg


"P" on bottom of pistol grip

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7juqeojw.jpg



Stock makers mark

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psj9b3trrg.jpg

Bainter1212 08-09-2015 2:46 PM

Handguard makers mark


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psnxffim6z.jpg


Stock cartouche

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psdmupkrpq.jpg


Lots of -U- marked parts

bolt

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psvjumry1g.jpg

sear

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1uhxm3zv.jpg

trigger housing

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psvpgptprs.jpg

firing pin

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...ps881hld3n.jpg

Bainter1212 08-09-2015 2:52 PM

Some other markings

Hammer

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4x57vzzr.jpg

mag release


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psi4wzo3bc.jpg


safety

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psj1ybn0c0.jpg


Check out this strange marking on the op rod assy. Anybody seen this before?


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...psbmftjkkr.jpg


Barrel band


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...pshgpfkn66.jpg






AND........the money shot



http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0nkwv5pz.jpg






Overall, I am very happy with this purchase. I have not fired it yet. If it proves reliable, I will be even happier.

Please feel free to help me interpret the markings and such.

Does anybody think the stock and handguard may be original to the gun? That would tickle me in the good spot.

Bobby Ricigliano 08-09-2015 5:55 PM

Very nice, good pick up!

Enfield47 08-09-2015 8:20 PM

Congrats, it's nice that it still has several U marked parts.

1-M-42 08-09-2015 8:42 PM

I didn't get a chance to tear it down while it was at Lodi Guns but did spend some time looking it over. I waited a bit too long, should have pulled the trigger. :sleeping:I had inside info that the owner was going to drop the price if they didn't sell in a few days but that never happened.....The Rock-Ola, the Winchester and yours all went for asking price. Great pick up, have fun shooting it

Bainter1212 08-10-2015 6:04 AM

I found out that the F inside the Heart is an Underwood marking so.....not unusual for this gun.

Somebody made a really nice webpage reference for these Bavarian carbines......whoever they are, I thank them for their diligence and hard work.

Milsurp Collector 08-10-2015 2:46 PM

The rebuild marking on the stock is likely "AAV" for Augusta Arsenal, inspector "V'.

The number on the bottom of the pistol grip is probably a rack number.

Stock M-U = Marlin Firearms Co. for Underwood
Handguard P-U = Pedersen Bros. Co. for Underwood
Stock acceptance stamp GHD (Brig. Gen.) Guy H. Drewry over UEF (Underwood Elliott Fisher).
The .U. parts were made by Underwood.
Hammer WU = Universal Winding Co. for Underwood
Mag catch WA = upgrade/replacement part by Walt Mfg. Co. The M means modified. The modified magazine catches were made a little thinner to allow them to move in against the mag catch spring as the magazine is being inserted.
Safety JAO = upgrade/replacement part by J.A. Otterbein.
Front band JM = upgrade/replacement by L.J. Mueller Furnace Co.

The front band, rear sight, magazine catch, and safety were typically upgraded during a rebuild. The carbines were typically broken down into barreled receiver and parts, and then reassembled from random parts. The fact that so many parts on your carbine are "correct" either means they were original to the rifle (possible but unlikely), or the rifle was "corrected" by a previous owner. So many carbine owners are parts swappers who feverishly and obsessively-compulsively "correct" their rebuilt carbines that it is more likely that your carbine was "corrected" at some point.

Bainter1212 08-10-2015 3:33 PM

^^^I thought about the "corrected" possibility, but I have no way of knowing as I never met the previous owner.

I suppose that is a possibility although I don't know why you wouldn't use type 1 parts if you wanted to correct it. Using later parts doesn't make much sense.

Milsurp Collector 08-10-2015 4:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bainter1212 (Post 16750164)
I suppose that is a possibility although I don't know why you wouldn't use type 1 parts if you wanted to correct it. Using later parts doesn't make much sense.

Original type 1 front bands, flip rear sights, early magazine catches, and pushbutton safeties are very scarce and expensive, because many were disposed of during the rebuild process and therefore aren't available. The other parts - hammers, operating slides, etc. - were re-used and are still in circulation. Genuine flip sights, type 1 bands, etc. are the hardest and most expensive parts to find, and so parts swappers either leave the upgrade parts on, or knowingly or unknowingly use reproduction parts. Most of the flip rear sights and type 1 bands for sale on Ebay, Gunbroker.com, at gun shows etc. are fakes, and some of the fakes are pretty hard to spot.

bohoki 08-10-2015 4:19 PM

not sure if this was posted

http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/bavaria.html

Bainter1212 08-10-2015 4:32 PM

Even if it was "corrected" somewhat, it wouldn't seem to have affected the value unless there were some type 1 parts on there to begin with (which is unlikely).
I don't understand why someone may have exchanged a few non-Underwood parts for some Underwood parts, but considering that it was most likely a mixmaster rebuild anyway, the value wouldn't have increased or decreased.

Anyway.....correcting an M1 carbine is idiotic unless it was unique somehow to begin with...which this one was not.

Milsurp Collector 08-10-2015 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bainter1212 (Post 16750495)
I don't understand why someone may have exchanged a few non-Underwood parts for some Underwood parts, but considering that it was most likely a mixmaster rebuild anyway, the value wouldn't have increased or decreased.

Anyway.....correcting an M1 carbine is idiotic unless it was unique somehow to begin with...which this one was not.

It's a sickness, a type of mental illness. :D

Go to the CMP forum M1 Carbine section and it's nothing but "what is the correct part?" and "is this flip sight legit?" questions, and the Want to Buy section is people looking for "correct" parts.

Bainter1212 08-10-2015 4:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector (Post 16750546)
It's a sickness, a type of mental illness. :D

Go to the CMP forum M1 Carbine section and it's nothing but "what is the correct part?" and "is this flip sight legit?" questions, and the Want to Buy section is people looking for "correct" parts.

Haha. Gotcha.

There might be a couple of narrow exceptions.

Example.....I have an Inland that has all of the early, correct parts except for the high wood stock. I know who the original owner was and I know he most likely brought it back or bought it from a fellow soldier who did.

When I got it, the stock on it had been sanded and refinished god knows how many times. Also, the buttstock oval cut had been filled in and the stock was cracked, damn near broken in half and totally unuseable.

That is an instance where I might put an Inland high wood stock on it, if I could find one.....but only because everything else is already in place.

Otherwise....yes. Probably a mental illness :p

Milsurp Collector 08-10-2015 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bainter1212 (Post 16750593)
Example.....I have an Inland that has all of the early, correct parts except for the high wood stock. I know who the original owner was and I know he most likely brought it back or bought it from a fellow soldier who did.

When I got it, the stock on it had been sanded and refinished god knows how many times. Also, the buttstock oval cut had been filled in and the stock was cracked, damn near broken in half and totally unuseable.

That is an instance where I might put an Inland high wood stock on it, if I could find one.....but only because everything else is already in place.

Yes, that would be a perfect candidate for a restoration. But most of the correctors are starting from a typical mixmaster rebuilt carbine and end up swapping out every part that isn't "correct". The amount they spend on parts is more than the increase in value of the carbine, which is minimal if any.


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