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-   -   'Breaking-in' scope turrets? (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1197797)

ifilef 05-14-2016 8:23 PM

'Breaking-in' scope turrets?
 
In general, and with a new scope, is it advisable to 'break in' one's scope turrets by turning them back and forth to their extremes and then setting half-way or just leaving them as they've come from the factory?

HK Dave 05-14-2016 8:25 PM

If you're actually going to use the turrets, doing it sometimes spreads some of the turret grease which makes the turret clicks more tactile.

They don't have to be "broken in" however.

ifilef 05-14-2016 8:29 PM

I've wondered about it because I've heard some people recommend working them in and I also know that for higher end Vortex scopes they use a collimator to calibrate those scopes.

Assuming a higher end Vortex scope and use of the collimator, what would be the recommendation? Leave it alone?

I already 'messed' with a low-end Weaver 2-7x32 scope and 'exercised' the turrets. It should be interesting to see if I can get on paper with it set to a theoretical mechanical zero. Saving grace might be that I have a Sightmark laser bore sighter, but I don't see myself able to use in daylight, so I may have to go to an indoor range with it, but then I can't secure my rifle steady at local indoor range because the platforms are so narrow and maximum range distance is 25 yards, but that, I guess, would also give a 100 300 yard zero with .223/5.56?

JMP 05-14-2016 8:41 PM

You should not need a break-in period for a good scope.

ifilef 05-14-2016 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMP (Post 18163890)
You should not need a break-in period for a good scope.

Does anyone know if factory scopes are preset to zero at their parallax distance?

HK Dave 05-14-2016 9:05 PM

Not entirely sure what your question is.

Scopes do come from the factory at their mechanical zero, however that means nothing since every rifle has a variances in machining, ammo loads, zero distances.

Can you clarify what you mean?

ifilef 05-14-2016 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HK Dave (Post 18163986)
Not entirely sure what your question is.

Scopes do come from the factory at their mechanical zero, however that means nothing since every rifle has a variances in machining, ammo loads, zero distances.

Can you clarify what you mean?

I thought it was the scope that had a preset parallax independent of the rifle. So, a scope may have a parallax of 100 yards, for instance. You have brought up a good point, though, about ammo loads, zero distance, etc.

Thanks for clarifying that scopes are set for their mechanical zero from the factory. This zero is mechanical only and varies according to load and distance, caliber and machining. Do I understand that correctly?

And if a person adjusts the turrets to each end, and then settles halfway between the extremes, should that be considered a mechanical zero also, similar to setting a rear BUIS to a mechanical zero, or not?

Sorry for the confusion.

HK Dave 05-14-2016 11:10 PM

With regards to mechanical zero. What you said is correct. The midpoint should be zero.

As for parallax.. I can take a guess at what you mean.

Many Scopes have a parallax adjustment knob. Especially when the scope has a magnification higher than 10x. With those you set the parallax for whatever distance you're shooting at until you're parallax free.

Now with the Scopes that don't have a parallax adjustmemt knob, those are usually set at the factory for a specific distance. It probably states that distance in the manual or you can give the factory a call.

Most Scopes with lower magnification don't really need a lot of parallax correction at many of the longer distances so it's "generally" ok from that distance and farther.

Even with those scopes though, there is often a way to adjust the parallax to a closer distance by turning the front element. Will however probably void your warranty and maybe purge the nitrogen.

ifilef 05-15-2016 1:44 AM

Thanks, HK Dave!

Interstateguns 05-15-2016 4:33 AM

Unless you just really want to know how many clicks you scope really as compared to the factory printed specs (which are typically understated) i find the mirror method easiest to mechanically center an erector tube.

Take the objective lens and place it against the mirror and look through it. You will see two reticle images.

Turn your adjustment knobs (elevation and windage) till the two images become one and you're done.

It might not be exact but its good enough for me.

-Chris

ifilef 05-15-2016 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interstateguns (Post 18164594)
Unless you just really want to know how many clicks you scope really as compared to the factory printed specs (which are typically understated) i find the mirror method easiest to mechanically center an erector tube.

Take the objective lens and place it against the mirror and look through it. You will see two reticle images.

Turn your adjustment knobs (elevation and windage) till the two images become one and you're done.

It might not be exact but its good enough for me.

-Chris

Chris- I've read about this method but it was never described adequately for me to attempt it. Your explanation is the best that I've found, but i do have a question or two:

1. I don't have any handheld mirror, can i do it against a medicine cabinet mirror or sliding mirrored closet door?

2. Should the objective be placed flush against the mirror?

3. With a variable magnification lens, e.g, for example 3-9x, what setting of magnification should be used for this method?

Thanks I came across a YT video concerning this method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpfCfgzpy80

Later: The video answered all of the above questions but I must say the mirror method does not conform to the alternate method on my Weaver 2-7x32mm scope when i've done the setting between click extremities. But I believe the mirror method may be better overall for centering the scope.

HK Dave 05-15-2016 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interstateguns (Post 18164594)
Unless you just really want to know how many clicks you scope really as compared to the factory printed specs (which are typically understated) i find the mirror method easiest to mechanically center an erector tube.

Take the objective lens and place it against the mirror and look through it. You will see two reticle images.

Turn your adjustment knobs (elevation and windage) till the two images become one and you're done.

It might not be exact but its good enough for me.

-Chris

First I've ever heard of this. Very cool. Gonna have to try it. Thanks Chris.

ifilef 05-15-2016 1:21 PM

So, I have a Sightmark laser boresighter and I think it will be useless for me due to its being a red beam and can't use it even at an indoor range due to inability to secure rifle there. And forget about using it outdoors unless at night or one has a green laser. Also there isn't enough distance to use it inside my apartment.

As I understand it, using the mirror method, the scope becomes centered. I would guess that is similar to a mechanical zero for the scope. It's a good thing to do because one can also confirm the turrets are tracking from the get-go.

To get it boresighted, I will be trying out the Bushnell magnetic bore sight. and see how it goes. Figure that for ~$32 it's worth it as it acts as a collimator with internal grid and can be used on the rifle at home. It's important to situate it on the barrel so that it aligns properly with your scope...you can slide it up or down to accomplish a proper alignment with the objective. Pic: http://www.mycoolrc.com/rimfire/revi...edsideview.JPG

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-74000..._detailpages00 . This is the less expensive version without the arbors and accessories.

Then it's to the outdoor range and will hopefully be on paper and zeroed with two or three shots at 50 yards.

Cheers, and thanks for the advice!

HK Dave 05-15-2016 8:36 PM

If it's a bolt action, you could pull the bolt and aim through the barrel onto the target and then set your scope to match... it will get you somewhat close enough to walk in from there.

ifilef 05-15-2016 8:59 PM

All rifles are semi-automatic

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

JMP 05-15-2016 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HK Dave (Post 18168365)
If it's a bolt action, you could pull the bolt and aim through the barrel onto the target and then set your scope to match... it will get you somewhat close enough to walk in from there.

Even with a semi like an AR, you can boresight the target by removing the lower receiver and BCG.

For me, I have never worried about it. I simply install the scope with the desired mount, and I work it out from there. I demand only a 100 yard zero. With good scopes, the clicks are nice and crisp and don't need them spun for a break-in. It's actually in the cheap scopes that sometimes your turrets can get off-kilter when you are dialling at the extremes. There are scopes out there, commonly made in China, that have a silly large elevation adjustment range, but these are pretty much guaranteed to wind up with distortion at the extrema.

HK Dave 05-15-2016 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMP (Post 18168762)
Even with a semi like an AR, you can boresight the target by removing the lower receiver and BCG.

For me, I have never worried about it. I simply install the scope with the desired mount, and I work it out from there. I demand only a 100 yard zero. With good scopes, the clicks are nice and crisp and don't need them spun for a break-in. It's actually in the cheap scopes that sometimes your turrets can get off-kilter when you are dialling at the extremes. There are scopes out there, commonly made in China, that have a silly large elevation adjustment range, but these are pretty much guaranteed to wind up with distortion at the extrema.

Ah that's a good point and a good way to get the AR in the ballpark.

Like you, I just walk it in... shoot at a berm, adjust, shoot, adjust... ok close enough, now shoot at the paper.

However, I've met some guys where that would never work because they don't understand recoil management so they can't spot their hits. I think for those folks... your method of pulling off the lower makes a whole lot more sense. Good idea. :)

ifilef 05-17-2016 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifilef (Post 18166547)
So, I have a Sightmark laser boresighter and I think it will be useless for me due to its being a red beam and can't use it even at an indoor range due to inability to secure rifle there. And forget about using it outdoors unless at night or one has a green laser. Also there isn't enough distance to use it inside my apartment.

As I understand it, using the mirror method, the scope becomes centered. I would guess that is similar to a mechanical zero for the scope. It's a good thing to do because one can also confirm the turrets are tracking from the get-go.

To get it boresighted, I will be trying out the Bushnell magnetic bore sight. and see how it goes. Figure that for ~$32 it's worth it as it acts as a collimator with internal grid and can be used on the rifle at home. It's important to situate it on the barrel so that it aligns properly with your scope...you can slide it up or down to accomplish a proper alignment with the objective. Pic: http://www.mycoolrc.com/rimfire/revi...edsideview.JPG

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-74000..._detailpages00 . This is the less expensive version without the arbors and accessories.

Then it's to the outdoor range and will hopefully be on paper and zeroed with two or three shots at 50 yards. Two-shot method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiOpQY2ORo4

Cheers, and thanks for the advice!

Update: Returning the Bushnell Magnetic Boresighter as it did not meet expectations. Too inexact setting it on barrel and I don't want to incur additional expense of arbors, accessories.

Will be keeping the Sightmark laser boresighter. I just realized (by trying at home at short distance) that I could use it without securing rifle securely and make adjustments to scopes at my indoor range notwithstanding lack of table area. Can make scope adjustments to align crosshairs with the projected beam while holding rifle on the target. Using a bipod should help. Should be fine getting on paper and will do final zero at outdoor range at 50 yards using the 2 or 3-shot method, with rifle secured.
Two-shot zero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiOpQY2ORo4

Update: Found a green laser boresighter on Amazon that may eliminate indoor range trip. It's $29.99, Dophee is the brand name. Don't know if mounting it on an AR with muzzle brake will work. Also, the Dophee does not ship for at least a month! The Sightmark red laser does fit on my muzzle brake.

Cheers,

penguin0123 05-18-2016 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifilef (Post 18163798)
In general, and with a new scope, is it advisable to 'break in' one's scope turrets by turning them back and forth to their extremes and then setting half-way or just leaving them as they've come from the factory?

I had to do this to a Leupold 3.5-10x40 M5 to get the clicks to feel good. M3 turrets are a lost cause. I never had to do that with an NF NXS to get beautiful feeling turrets.

ifilef 05-18-2016 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguin0123 (Post 18183694)
I had to do this to a Leupold 3.5-10x40 M5 to get the clicks to feel good. M3 turrets are a lost cause. I never had to do that with an NF NXS to get beautiful feeling turrets.

Why am I NOT surprised with the NF NXS? Might cost have something to do with it? :oji: :rolleyes::):facepalm:


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