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-   -   Are Gold and Silver gonna keep going down? (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=745048)

sixoclockhold 01-04-2014 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripon83 (Post 13130055)
Is about $20-25 billion in today's market. Their economy is annually about 12-15 trillion? This isn't even a sneeze fest. Maybe they buy it to keep the slaves fed?

China's trade surplus with the US runs $25 billion monthly and could lock up all the worlds produced Gold for 1/3 of that per month. I don't expect them to take a loss on the reserves of Gold they have been accumulating these last several years. On any given day they can absorb everything and send Gold prices to the moon with little financial strain should they choose. It is a weapon of mass destruction for the dollar and a financial windfall once prices rise and they retain top world producer. The vaults being built in the east and purchased here are for a reason, to hold the WORLDS Gold !

Today it's said China is encouraging it's population to purchase Gold. With supplies the way they are it isn't going to take many months before you just can't get much without huge premiums. India is now back on board also as the Government is loosening Gold taxes and laws.

While we recently printed over 4 trillion in funny money, China printed 12 trillion. The flood of Yuan is coming and looks to be backed at least in part by Gold.

The real question in all this is whether China is going to be a partner in the Bankster heist or be the lone banker replacing the Fed.

Ripon83 01-05-2014 8:22 AM

Ok and please think
 
You just nailed it. China could drive the gold market place wild and double or triple its price.

Guess what else they can do - they can cut it in half by flooding the market with it too. Now why would they - just to buy more of course. So lets go back to your original China post - are they buyers or not?

Having a few ounces of SHTF is a good thing, having silver even better, but investing in this stuff is only going to get people hurt and encouraging people to invest in something to which they can't control or read a stock report on is silliness.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sixoclockhold (Post 13130487)
China's trade surplus with the US runs $25 billion monthly and could lock up all the worlds produced Gold for 1/3 of that per month. I don't expect them to take a loss on the reserves of Gold they have been accumulating these last several years. On any given day they can absorb everything and send Gold prices to the moon with little financial strain should they choose. It is a weapon of mass destruction for the dollar and a financial windfall once prices rise and they retain top world producer. The vaults being built in the east and purchased here are for a reason, to hold the WORLDS Gold !

Today it's said China is encouraging it's population to purchase Gold. With supplies the way they are it isn't going to take many months before you just can't get much without huge premiums. India is now back on board also as the Government is loosening Gold taxes and laws.

While we recently printed over 4 trillion in funny money, China printed 12 trillion. The flood of Yuan is coming and looks to be backed at least in part by Gold.

The real question in all this is whether China is going to be a partner in the Bankster heist or be the lone banker replacing the Fed.


glockman19 01-05-2014 8:41 AM

Ripon83's argument makes more sense. Think diamonds and DeBeers. They only have the value because supply is controlled. Release the true supply of diamonds and the price collapses to $100's from $1,000's a carat.
China could do more damage by dumping worthless dollars than dumping precious metals. Finally, we really don't know what internal Chineese gold production is.

sixoclockhold 01-05-2014 8:49 AM

Gold has always been a viable vehicle for investment portfolio's. The rewards out weight the risks.

The percentage one uses should be discussed with their investment counselor. No where have I ever heard that ammo should be treated as an investment vehicle and I don't recall ever being trained that diamonds were either.

I believe PM's are a vital part of one's preparedness in case of calamity.

smashycrashy 01-05-2014 9:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixoclockhold (Post 13136410)
Gold has always been a viable vehicle for investment portfolio's. The rewards out weight the risks.

The rewards outweigh the risk below a certain price...

We are way above that price.

Buying PM's only makes sense if you buy below avg cash cost for all mines (it can stay below that price for very long periods of time)

In times when it goes ballistic because people are insane.. is the time to sell.. not buy.

This is still a fantastic selling opportunity!

sixoclockhold 01-05-2014 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashycrashy (Post 13136852)
The rewards outweigh the risk below a certain price...

We are way above that price.

Buying PM's only makes sense if you buy below avg cash cost for all mines (it can stay below that price for very long periods of time)

In times when it goes ballistic because people are insane.. is the time to sell.. not buy.

This is still a fantastic selling opportunity!

Looking at the last 10 year history of Gold prices, I can't believe an investment counselor would say anything but buy X% based on the fact we are currently at a median level. The risks are equal up or down. Gold is normally thought of as insurance in an investment portfolio and delaying the purchase of such insurance would make little sense.

sixoclockhold 01-06-2014 7:36 AM

Smashy was that you who did the slam down of Gold $35 bucks this morning enough to halt trading again? Bummer were up now, eh.

The World is getting nervous, financial trembler's everywhere you look.

smashycrashy 01-06-2014 8:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixoclockhold (Post 13142745)
Smashy was that you who did the slam down of Gold $35 bucks this morning enough to halt trading again? Bummer were up now, eh.

The World is getting nervous, financial trembler's everywhere you look.

You sure like to sweat the small price movements, the trend is (rightfully) down and that downtrend remains intact. Everything else is just noise.

Not a Cook 01-06-2014 2:46 PM

Let me apologize in advance for threadjacking: not really trying to, and hopefully I won't annoy you too badly. I'm totally new to buying precious metals, and judging by this thread am hoping that some of the folks here would be willing to help me out. Where would you advise someone like myself start in buying silver for an emergency on-hand stockpile? Why types of coins? Any specific dealers (the San Fernando Valley, Ventura County, and adjacent areas are convenient for me) that you would recommend? Also, if I understand correctly, minimum purchase should be $1,500 so as not to have to pay sales tax, correct? Anything else I should keep in mind? I've read through this thread and some other websites, but assume there is more that I should be considering. Thanks in advance for your help!

Ripon83 01-06-2014 4:05 PM

Opinion
 
We all have various opinions. I think if you have water, food, security, and energy needs met and want to add PMs for SHTF it's a good thing. Gold is wealth preservation and silver more of a working mans barter in my opinion and many will disagree. I would only be interested in pre 64 US silver coins or one ounce silver coins from a govt mint, Canada, US a few others.

Pre 64 coins I've bought with WTB Craigslist ads using 80% of coinflation.com prices pretty well when silver was higher then today. Not sure if I'd have to go a higher percentage right now or not as I haven't tried in several months.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Not a Cook (Post 13145567)
Let me apologize in advance for threadjacking: not really trying to, and hopefully I won't annoy you too badly. I'm totally new to buying precious metals, and judging by this thread am hoping that some of the folks here would be willing to help me out. Where would you advise someone like myself start in buying silver for an emergency on-hand stockpile? Why types of coins? Any specific dealers (the San Fernando Valley, Ventura County, and adjacent areas are convenient for me) that you would recommend? Also, if I understand correctly, minimum purchase should be $1,500 so as not to have to pay sales tax, correct? Anything else I should keep in mind? I've read through this thread and some other websites, but assume there is more that I should be considering. Thanks in advance for your help!


sixoclockhold 01-07-2014 4:18 AM

I buy here in person, an authorized mint purchaser, what does that mean? It means they have the financial ability to transact business with the Feds. It means they sell to coin shops all over the country for their inventory. It means you walk in, plop your cash down and walk out with the coins at a price small coin dealers would. It means when you are ready to sell your coins, you plop them down and they hand you the cash. I buy no where else. Two armed guards always on site for your protection, one outside and one in. Personally I don't worry about silver fakes here, I buy current year coins and bury them or go boating :) Good luck.

Oh and if you look at the front page of the website, there are big screens in the store quoting all current prices with usually cnbc running on main screen. You pay or sell based on the time of your transaction. It doesn't get any clearer or informative than that in life.

http://www.golddealer.com/product/am...ilver-eagle-2/

sixoclockhold 01-10-2014 1:21 PM

Wag, $1,300 ...no fly zone.

Interesting both Gold/Silver close the week up and sitting right at their 50 day moving average. Go China Go and blow this lid off Monday !

sixoclockhold 01-18-2014 10:12 AM

Another strong week for PM's, Gold/Silver both above 50 moving average.

Now go get the 200 day..............

sixoclockhold 01-18-2014 7:20 PM

http://www.thedailybell.com/editoria...-Manipulation/

Well written piece and worth a read. Rumors around again the comex could default on delivery of Gold in February. (Won't happen imo because banks will just sell more of someone else Gold they hold in trust) If anything could cause a SHTF moment it could be this as the world begins to realize fiat is worthless and the bankers have robbed everyone of their suspected deposited physical gold.

If you don't hold it, you don't own it. The Banks and the Fed, SOLD IT.

All aboard, this train is about to ROLL.......

Price check Gold $1,255 Silver $20.42

therealnickb 01-18-2014 7:47 PM

Bla bla bla....

sixoclockhold 01-18-2014 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therealnickb (Post 13235564)
Bla bla bla....

What can I say Nick, I love boating

CaliforniaLiberal 01-19-2014 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not a Cook (Post 13145567)
Let me apologize in advance for threadjacking: not really trying to, and hopefully I won't annoy you too badly. I'm totally new to buying precious metals, and judging by this thread am hoping that some of the folks here would be willing to help me out. Where would you advise someone like myself start in buying silver for an emergency on-hand stockpile? Why types of coins? Any specific dealers (the San Fernando Valley, Ventura County, and adjacent areas are convenient for me) that you would recommend? Also, if I understand correctly, minimum purchase should be $1,500 so as not to have to pay sales tax, correct? Anything else I should keep in mind? I've read through this thread and some other websites, but assume there is more that I should be considering. Thanks in advance for your help!


As has been posted here, you want to have the basics: water, food, warmth, mobility and self defense as well as a 6 month savings in your bank account before you consider Precious Metals.

You are far more likely to have a job loss or some personal family crisis than to experience the End of the World As We Know It. Have some savings to protect yourself from the unexpected.

Metal prices are fundamentally unpredictable. They are a speculation, not an investment. Forecasts of future prices by experts have been worse than random chance over the years. There is a huge industry focussed on providing BS information in an effort to get people to buy or sell, where profit for the info providers is made from your transactions, not any wise investment decisions.

In the first weeks or months of chaos after a SHTF Silver Coins are not likely to be as easily traded as Firearms and especially Ammunition and other necessities. You can't eat Metals. After a certain level of Law and Order and a reliable Food Supply has been reestablished there may be a place for easily recognized Silver and Gold coins in a primitive economy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_as_an_investment


Precious Metal prices are driven by irrational panic and greed much more than by quantifiable economic statistics. There are far more filthy rich traders who have gotten richer by manipulating the market than there are "little guys" buying or selling less than million dollar quantities of metals.

You are the sheep. They are the sheep shearers.

Those who think they know what the markets are doing and make sincere predictions are self-deluded. The recent drop in prices was completely unforeseen, un-predicted. Long term, you have better odds at the Roulette Wheel or 21 Table. The Casinos don't charge you an extra fee to place a bet.

Never put any money into metals that you can't afford to see shrink by half over the next year.

Good Luck.

Ripon83 01-19-2014 3:11 PM

In fairness
 
In reading his post he views PMs as a SHTF essential and I can't disagree. Being that silver is now around $20 I can see people still tring to score enough ammo, food or other items adding a little silver in the $20-50 range each month to their stocks.

I was 18 when I started as a police officer for $9.5 an hr. Every pay day I'd buy two Canadian silver maple leafs for about $11-12 eventually getting 4 for $20 at each pay day. In my first year I was elated to have bought 80 oz and 70 the next year. I graduated college with no preps, no debts, and 300 oz of silver, my 22s, my service pistols, and deer rifle.

Sometimes it makes sense to just apply your savings to something like silver


Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaLiberal (Post 13238856)
As has been posted here, you want to have the basics: water, food, warmth, mobility and self defense as well as a 6 month savings in your bank account before you consider Precious Metals.

You are far more likely to have a job loss or some personal family crisis than to experience the End of the World As We Know It. Have some savings to protect yourself from the unexpected.

Metal prices are fundamentally unpredictable. They are a speculation, not an investment. Forecasts of future prices by experts have been worse than random chance over the years. There is a huge industry focussed on providing BS information in an effort to get people to buy or sell, where profit for the info providers is made from your transactions, not any wise investment decisions.

In the first weeks or months of chaos after a SHTF Silver Coins are not likely to be as easily traded as Firearms and especially Ammunition and other necessities. You can't eat Metals. After a certain level of Law and Order and a reliable Food Supply has been reestablished there may be a place for easily recognized Silver and Gold coins in a primitive economy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_as_an_investment


Precious Metal prices are driven by irrational panic and greed much more than by quantifiable economic statistics. There are far more filthy rich traders who have gotten richer by manipulating the market than there are "little guys" buying or selling less than million dollar quantities of metals.

You are the sheep. They are the sheep shearers.

Those who think they know what the markets are doing and make sincere predictions are self-deluded. The recent drop in prices was completely unforeseen, un-predicted. Long term, you have better odds at the Roulette Wheel or 21 Table. The Casinos don't charge you an extra fee to place a bet.

Never put any money into metals that you can't afford to see shrink by half over the next year.

Good Luck.


richie3888 01-19-2014 11:44 PM

Buy in December and sell in May. That's the only way to make money in pm. Unless your plan is to give it to your kids.

sixoclockhold 01-20-2014 10:02 AM

A gold reserve is the gold held by a central bank or nation intended as a "store of value" and as a guarantee to redeem promises to pay depositors, note holders (e.g., paper money), or trading peers, or to secure a currency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

Store of Value

A recognized form of exchange can be a form of money or currency, or a commodity like gold, silver or financial capital. To act as a store of value, these forms must be able to be saved and retrieved at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value


I guess it would be important to understand the millennium long use and love for PM's. Missed the words, water, food, ammo in these descriptions. hmmm

2112 01-21-2014 3:07 PM

Food for thought
 
:eek:Gold closed out the week on a strong footing as a bullish research report released by JPMorgan analysts on Friday called for a bottom in gold as cited by Dow Jones. They were also bullish on some South African gold miners getting investors to pile up on mining shares, which catapulted the HUI Goldbug Index over 3% on the last trading day of the week.
One has to question the integrity of such reporting as the big bullion banks including JPMorgan have been loading up on long positions in gold as of late and as noted in the Commitment of Traders report, accumulating the metal from hedge funds that have been selling the downtrend of the previous months.
The models show the rally will be a dead cat bounce. The final lows in the bear market are not yet in.

Gold has so far behaved as I thought it would: In a similar pattern to the previous week with another sideways consolidation before finishing off the week with strength and closing out with a slight gain. This time it was the 50-day moving average providing support for gold, but Friday’s strength saw it springboard off this level.
The upper Bollinger Band now rests at the $1,264 level. The line in the sand is the $1,260 – $1,280 area. So if gold can get through this area, the yellow metal is headed higher.
Support areas come in at the $1,240 and $1,220 levels and that should provide some interim support. But if tested, I don’t expect them to hold.
On the weekly level, the center Bollinger Line comes in at the $1,280 level reaffirming this resistance zone. The bulls will have their work cut out for them getting past this area.

sixoclockhold 01-23-2014 2:08 PM

I like what many so called Gold experts are saying here of late. Get through $1,270 and double bottom was made. Short squeeze is next which "could" send gold to "new" highs.

Global economy is failing and here at home housing begins to stumble.

Great day for Gold up up and away $28...$1,265

keenkeen 01-23-2014 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRH (Post 13272910)
Here is a good article on gold manipulation by a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan. When the music stops be sure to have a chair.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014...kedckWWg.email

Never trust a guy with 3 first names...

sixoclockhold 01-23-2014 2:55 PM

Mining sector is doing great, best so far early in the year. Not many sectors undervalued.

sixoclockhold 01-23-2014 3:03 PM



She has some good points



Harry Dent has a few good points. I try to absorb it all and draw my own conclusions.

I do like cash like Dent.

sixoclockhold 01-24-2014 4:14 PM

Great week, Gold closes at $1,270 and I'm a first time owner of a 2014 Gold Buffalo.

What an amazing coin, may have to stack a few of these. Definitely getting another to take out of the mint wrap to play with but that one had a sad boating accident :(

therealnickb 01-24-2014 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixoclockhold (Post 13281581)
Great week, Gold closes at $1,270 and I'm a first time owner of a 2014 Gold Buffalo.

What an amazing coin, may have to stack a few of these. Definitely getting another to take out of the mint wrap to play with but that one had a sad boating accident :(


Whoo hoo! I hope the country falls into fiscal chaos so my gold metal bet allows me to fook everyone!

Whoo hoo!!!!!!!

sixoclockhold 01-27-2014 8:15 AM

Gold is an Asset which we swap dollars for. One of the reasons people purchase this Asset is because of it's storage of value, not get rich idea's.

You see Gold is mined every year and never destroyed like commodities, but only 1% of the above ground gold is ever mined each year. It's not easy to find or mine Gold and it is an expensive process. So one can feel comfortable that their share of the earths gold will not all the sudden be depreciated through exploration or mining, no only 1% will be generated each year. Think how safe that is....

If you bought $10k worth of Gold in 2014 you would only have to buy $1,000 more of Gold over the next 10 years 2024 to continue to have the same % of that assets class, providing the price and inflation was stable.

This is why people, banks and Governments buy Gold. It's a storage of wealth...period !

Jimi Jah 01-27-2014 8:45 AM

The last few years of 'quantitative easing' = monetizing our debts will cause our currency to decline in value = higher gold costs.

There will be inflation from all that money printing. Once intrest rates begin to rise later this year inflation will kick in.

Then our bankrupt government will need to deal with that 18 trillion dollar debt they know can't be paid back. Once the creditors realize that they will call in those debts.

Then, like Mexico the Fed will devalue our currency to lessen those debts. Overnight, someday soon you will loose 1/2 of your paper assets.

Those holding gold will avoid that devaluation.

The question is this:

Do you trust your bankrupt government?

I trust gold more.

Uxi 01-27-2014 10:09 AM

All very true. Except there is already precedent for the government confiscation of gold at a... reasonable market rate.

Don't get me wrong. Holding paper and/or electronic representation of paper money alone is definitely unwise with the current Administration especially. Simply putting all your eggs in PM's isn't wise, either.

Quinc 01-27-2014 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimi Jah (Post 13298615)
The last few years of 'quantitative easing' = monetizing our debts will cause our currency to decline in value = higher gold costs.

There will be inflation from all that money printing. Once intrest rates begin to rise later this year inflation will kick in.

Then our bankrupt government will need to deal with that 18 trillion dollar debt they know can't be paid back. Once the creditors realize that they will call in those debts.

Then, like Mexico the Fed will devalue our currency to lessen those debts. Overnight, someday soon you will loose 1/2 of your paper assets.

Those holding gold will avoid that devaluation.

The question is this:

Do you trust your bankrupt government?

I trust gold more.

And once all of this happens who is going to buy your gold?

Excaliburr 01-28-2014 9:01 AM

One of the biggest mistakes I have made over the years is the mindset that PM prices are going to contine to go up....especially during inflationary times or bouts of deflation. How wrong was I? BTW, nice to see you here QUINC. Jimi Jah says holding gold during devaluation will avoid you losing monetary value, but QUINC is quite right. Gold/Silver are both traded in very manipulated markets nowadays and there is no guarantee of that. Most people do not understand the value of gold and there is a youtube of Mark Dice trying to sell a one ounce gold coin out in beverly hills for $20 with no takers. He then goes down the street to the coin dealer and cashes it in for over $1,600. I have tried trading gold/silver in my business with no takers ever. Those who have it, like many of us, are not willing to part with it and when they do, they always convert it back to the American $ to make sure they are not getting the short end of the trade. PM's are an inflation hedge at best and another form of barter if the SHTF. Unfortunately, if a a serious situation developed, it would take months before anyone understood the value of PM's as a currency. People will desire things like food, alcohol, medicine, ammo, cigarettes, tobacco, toilet paper and the like and my guess is they will not accept a shiny object in trade...at least not in the beginning. One of the best things a person can have in their safe at home is some good ol American dollars they can spend. It is going to be tough to go to an ATM when the banks are closed or their is a power outage. One other great thing is those darn small propane tanks they are now selling for $3 each or more. There is nowhere close to a gallon of propane in them, yet a lot of survival stoves, lights etc will need them. I remember not to long ago when people were fighting in line to get some due to one of the natural disasters.

Quinc 01-31-2014 7:07 AM

Nice to be back! Got into standup Jetskis last year and wrenching on them took all of my free time...

under 19$ Today!

meyerlemony 01-31-2014 1:23 PM

I saw that. I've been picking up $10 worth of 90% US coins every few months, and that price was quite good so I picked up two. I'm not going overboard, by any means, but I feel like it is nice to be diversified.

sixoclockhold 02-11-2014 6:45 AM

Gold is making it's comeback to a small degree of late:

Score is Gold $1,290
Silver $20.25

Maybe when we have to add a zero to these figures the world will be much clearer?

2112 02-11-2014 6:53 AM

How high ??
 
I wonder just how high PM's will go in the future, say 2-5 years from now.So much speculation and opinion across the board. Some say gold 5k, silver 150, some say gold 10k silver 200. Only time will tell........Got any predictions Sixoclock?






Quote:

Originally Posted by sixoclockhold (Post 13412918)
Gold is making it's comeback to a small degree of late:

Score is Gold $1,290
Silver $20.25

Maybe when we have to add a zero to these figures the world will be much clearer?


grabalnog 02-11-2014 4:56 PM

all depends on your goals..your age...your liquidity and cash flow.....and what "long term investment" means to you

buy or sell....theres no right answer without context

sixoclockhold 02-13-2014 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2112 (Post 13412957)
I wonder just how high PM's will go in the future, say 2-5 years from now.So much speculation and opinion across the board. Some say gold 5k, silver 150, some say gold 10k silver 200. Only time will tell........Got any predictions Sixoclock?

I posted a piece on OT that places the Gold price at $27,000 an ounce should the US dollar ever need 40% backing on a gold reserve basis. This would mean current gold reserves would have to be verified, which hasn't been done publicly in ages. As we continue to raise debt limits this price per ounce only increases without acquiring more gold reserves.

No one knows what is going to happen given the state of financial chaos globally but I anticipate Gold to play some role.

I said in this thread $1,500 would be more likely by May of this year than some crazy low number. Gold is being accumulated physically and is in very strong hands, this will increase upward pressure on physical prices. At some point I expect paper gold and physical gold to trade at their true value. Paper gold is leveraged 100 to 1 it is said.

Once we break through and hold above 1,311 the 200 day moving, I expect some wild and crazy action.

I'm a buyer at these levels because my time horizon is not less than 4 yrs to ever sell. I think the physical market could easily hold a $2,400 per oz price today given global finances, but we are linked to paper prices which is a huge daily market. It's my understanding that the Feds have no problem with Gold prices rising they just want it orderly so confidence is not lost in the dollar.

So I can't really answer your question other than to say, imo $2,400 to $27,000.

sixoclockhold 02-13-2014 7:04 AM

^^^

Adding I've never been a Silver Bug, while I do own several pounds of the stuff in different forms of Sterling Silverware and Eagles, I can't say I like it. I own it only for barter purposes and nothing more. I do think it will tag along with gold as it rises but my belief is gold will someday trade at a premium where silver won't due to it's many industrial uses. I look for silver to trade with inflation factors and gold to trade based on a need to guarantee debt currencies. I foresee a time when the gold to silver ratio is well over 100 to 1

sixoclockhold 02-14-2014 6:15 AM

Ah-oh, did Gold and Silver just break through their 200 day moving averages?

Where's El Smashy now?

Get ready for the ride folks, this will be one for the ages.

Gold up 9% for the year already.


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